411 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

Doonerbandit wrote...

 Please just a gun, armour or a casual outfit PLEASE.  

Pretty meaningless stuff to loyal fans. I'd rather they end the story in epic fashion, and include meaningful dialog with past characters. That's the kind of stuff loyal fans want.

Modifié par slimgrin, 26 janvier 2012 - 05:06 .

[AlanC9]

Let me see if I got this right.

You love the game so much that you bought as much content as you could:

alliance4g63 wrote...
 And some people like me have also purchased every piece of quality DLC that has been released. I have never supported a company this way and I do it because one, I love the game and universe they created. And second to help fund future products by showing my support with my wallet.

And yet, because the company isn't going to give you free stuff you're going to stop buying their products:

Maybe I am old school and just long for the days when companies made it seem the fans were everything to them. Instead we get this attitude of  "if you want the content you do what it takes to get it". So if that is the way Bioware is going, this could be my last Bioware game.

I'm reading these correctly?

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 janvier 2012 - 04:47 .

[alliance4g63]

AlanC9 wrote...

alliance4g63 wrote...

Why do hotels give special perks for loyal customers?
Why do restuarants send you discount coupons for being loyal?
Why does any retailer reward loyalty? ITS BECAUSE WE ARE FREAKING LOYAL!

This is a truly terrible analogy. The kind of businesses that engage in that sort of loyalty program do it because they aren't selling anything distinctive. Airlines have loyalty programs because nobody gives a damn what airline he's flying on as long as he gets where he's going for a good price. Mid-range hotels and crappy restaurants have the same problem, since what they're selling is a commodity offered by plenty of competitors.

And the same can't be said about Mass Effect? At the end of the day it is just another shooter. Do you know how many ME players only play as soldiers? So the universe that you think is amazing and important probably isnt nearly as important to the "dudebro" shoot everything that moves players. My friends list isn't filled with players playing Mass Effect. Shooters are a dime a dozen no matter how you think the world views ME, it is still a shooter. Or at least it sure is becoming one.

[Dewart]

AlanC9 wrote...

Let me see if I got this right.

You love the game so much that you bought as much content as you could:

alliance4g63 wrote...
 And some people like me have also purchased every piece of quality DLC that has been released. I have never supported a company this way and I do it because one, I love the game and universe they created. And second to help fund future products by showing my support with my wallet.

And yet, because the company isn't going to give you free stuff you're going to stop buying their products:

Maybe I am old school and just long for the days when companies made it seem the fans were everything to them. Instead we get this attitude of  "if you want the content you do what it takes to get it". So if that is the way Bioware is going, this could be my last Bioware game.

I'm reading these correctly?

Oh yes I think you are reading those correctly. You are definatly pointing out a clear contradiction.

[AlanC9]

alliance4g63 wrote...
And the same can't be said about Mass Effect? At the end of the day it is just another shooter.

You really believe that? The guy who just said that

And some people like me have also purchased every piece of quality DLC that has been released. I have never supported a company this way and I do it because one, I love the game and universe they created. 

Dude, you really need to make up your mind.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 janvier 2012 - 04:54 .

[Il Divo]

alliance4g63 wrote...

But this is not the case of a new game or a new customer. I dont think it is too much to ask for Bioware to throw a little nod to us hardcore loyalists for purchasing 3 consecutive games. And some people like me have also purchased every piece of quality DLC that has been released. I have never supported a company this way and I do it because one, I love the game and universe they created. And second to help fund future products by showing my support with my wallet.

Companies easily get too big too fast and stop focusing on the hardcore. Hardcore fans offer consistent money, new fans can give you those quick Call of Duty spurts but where will you be after that? Look I can see where Bioware is heading and good for them for going after the money they deserve. To me there is a fine line between going for money you deserve and staying true to your content and fans. And then there is being greedy and sacrificing content and loyal fans for more money. Hollywood does it all the time when they make sequels that no one wanted when they could have just went out on top and left the content alone.

Maybe I am old school and just long for the days when companies made it seem the fans were everything to them. Instead we get this attitude of  "if you want the content you do what it takes to get it". So if that is the way Bioware is going, this could be my last Bioware game. I am a small fish so my money may not matter unless there are countless other small fish that feel the same as me.

I have to agree with Alan; your last paragraph seems to hint that your decision to avoid Bioware games hinges entirely on free content. And I find that to be a rather absurd criteria for making a game purchase. I ultimately buy a game because I want entertainment. A free dlc may entice me towards that end, but it's the experience that matters, not whether Bioware offers me Collector Armor. Your post continues to indicate that the reason you support Bioware is because you like their games. And unless that enjoyment has diminished, I really don't see where you're coming from.

[alliance4g63]

AlanC9 wrote...

Let me see if I got this right.

You love the game so much that you bought as much content as you could:


And yet, because the company isn't going to give you free stuff you're going to stop buying their products:

I'm reading these correctly?

I said I would stop buying their products if they are heading in the direction they are going. How is that a contradiction?

This is all coming from the direction of ME3, not ME2. I BOUGHT all the DLC for the past games that doesnt mean I will do the same for ME3. Where did I say I would not buy their future products because they arent giving freebies?

[Il Divo]

alliance4g63 wrote...

This is all coming from the direction of ME3, not ME2. I BOUGHT all the DLC for the past games that doesnt mean I will do the same for ME3. Where did I say I would not buy their future products because they arent giving freebies?

"Maybe I am old school and just long for the days when companies made it seem the fans were everything to them. Instead we get this attitude of "if you want the content you do what it takes to get it". So if that is the way Bioware is going, this could be my last Bioware game. I am a small fish so my money may not matter unless there are countless other small fish that feel the same as me."

That seems to indicate that Bioware's current approach to dlc content, rather than the quality of their games, is playing a huge role in your decision to potentially buy (or not buy) future products.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 janvier 2012 - 05:04 .

[alliance4g63]

Il Divo wrote...


I have to agree with Alan; your last paragraph seems to hint that your decision to avoid Bioware games hinges entirely on free content. And I find that to be a rather absurd criteria for making a game purchase. I ultimately buy a game because I want entertainment. A free dlc may entice me towards that end, but it's the experience that matters, not whether Bioware offers me Collector Armor. Your post continues to indicate that the reason you support Bioware is because you like their games. And unless that enjoyment has diminished, I really don't see where you're coming from.

No... I was "hinting" about their new stance on DLC. Significant or not. The free content argument was only in regard to loyalists. It had nothing to do with my decision on whether I would purchase future Bioware games. That decision is based on their diminishing quality and their new stances in regard to DLC. I personally have not seen it taken to the extreme that is happening pre-release of ME3. And that can only be EA. They are the company responsible for this online pass that every online game is now copying.

So I really think both of you guys didn't read my whole post or just didnt understand. If I wasnt more clear, I apologize.

[Rudy Lis]

*Psht!* Engulf them in flames!

AlanC9 wrote...

This is a truly terrible analogy. The kind of businesses that engage in that sort of loyalty program do it because they aren't selling anything distinctive. Airlines have loyalty programs because nobody gives a damn what airline he's flying on as long as he gets where he's going for a good price. Mid-range hotels and crappy restaurants have the same problem, since what they're selling is a commodity offered by plenty of competitors.

Hotels, you say? Hmm, how about this situation: you arrived in the middle of a night, you pay 100 Euros for room, plus extra for food, OR you pay 60 Euros for rooms and got access to kitchen with some easy-to-cook food, OR you pay 20 Euros and decent food already included (only warm it up a bit), or you pay nothing, hotel owner smiles, hugs you, pat you on the back, give you keys and say "your usual cabin, fridge is full, rooms are cleared, bikes fueled, enjoy your stay". And, as you understand, this is very same hotel, only in different years. Of course, as honest person you will cover all expenses later, but how about that approach? Obviously this is small hotel, not some those fortresses somewhere on beaches with hundreds of thousands of visitors, but still.

How about stores or companies that sells something specific (hunting, hiking, don't know, biking gear)? Or manufacture something specific and sells it? Their "discounts" and "bonuses" are counted or not? I'm not talking about "Steam-alike" midweek/weekend/season/holiday sales, coupons and cumulative discounts only.

Can't say about restaurants, or "bigger" hotels, or airlines - I rarely use same, and local railroads definitely don't give a **** I pay hefty sum of money for month's passes or long-distance tickets. Train conductors greets me and add something extra for free for being "loyal customer" (like I have a choice), but from RR themselves? No. "Know you place, you little gear in great machine of sociali... capitalism, so give us your money, moar of dem, MOAR!!!" Dem cheeky bastards.
Jokes are included.

AlanC9 wrote...

This is the opposite of the Mass Effect market. If you want Mass Effect, you've got to get it from Bioware. If you want something like Mass Effect, your options are....... what? Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Alpha Protocol? How many others? 

Alpha Protocol "like" Mass Effect? Well, it's definitely more like ME than F1 2011, but still.

AlanC9 wrote...

@ Terror_K; I agree with you about  tech skills. However, in practice I don't think limiting skills to particular classes ever ends up making very much difference in a party-based game; it restricts party makeup and to a lesser extent builds, but if a player does give in to those restrictions the game plays pretty much the same since your three-headed monster should have everything covered.

IMHO this is serious question (one of few in this thread ) - to find balance between gameplay, annoyance, ease of use (thus joy), (un)necessary management and realism. From one point of view, ME1 was good compromise - you needed specialist in team, but you don't have to switch to him (for obvious reasons - you cannot) to open something locked (OMG - Kaydan-multitool). Unlike DAO, where you need to select your, say thief, to open the locked chest or remove trap. This is unnecessary management, annoying and time consuming to 20th locked chest or trap found. On the other hand, who cared that Gothic 1-2-3 character had unlimited carrying capability? Not realistic? Yes. Ease of use? Yes. Pleasure - out of scale.
Some say it's not realistic. But how about NWN2, where you can put 500+ pounds of gear into Neeshka's or Qara's inventory and make them carry that to nearby store? Or limiting your PC as party "speaker". Aha. Very funny for ranger (with "wild child" background) and especially wizard - AFAIR two only classes without any communicative skills.
I can't see any easy answers there. Maybe it will be better to add two system of minigames - one will require tech-specialist presence during lockpicking/hacking/etc, but he will do that personally, cutscene-alike, and another - where all these jobs can be performed by PC, regardless of his class. Or, who say we cannot combine two systems - you want combat oriented team, you deal with locks yourself and play those annoying minigames. You don't want to waste your time - take some tech specialist and he will do that for you.

And BTW, 2 teammates is too low. Why not six? We played Rainbow Six or SWAT, or ArmA/OFP with greater numbers of subordinates. Just split them (for poor consoles users sake) into 3 teams, each consisting 2 men - let's say Garrus and Vega as strike team, Kaydan and Liara as space mages and Tali tagging behind you as self-propelled chassis for hacking module and Shepard's rear turret shotgunner.

Dewart wrote...

Shouldn't this topic be closed by now since:
A) The majority of it is a loyal fan debate and not really ME3 related.
It is useless complaining
C) The whole thing isn't really going anywhere

No-no-no! I need to practice in English and majority of other threads on these forums contain spoilers!

[StephanieBengal]

We're still on this I see...

[Terror_K]

Rudy Lis wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

@ Terror_K; I agree with you about  tech skills. However, in practice I don't think limiting skills to particular classes ever ends up making very much difference in a party-based game; it restricts party makeup and to a lesser extent builds, but if a player does give in to those restrictions the game plays pretty much the same since your three-headed monster should have everything covered.

IMHO this is serious question (one of few in this thread ) - to find balance between gameplay, annoyance, ease of use (thus joy), (un)necessary management and realism. From one point of view, ME1 was good compromise - you needed specialist in team, but you don't have to switch to him (for obvious reasons - you cannot) to open something locked (OMG - Kaydan-multitool). Unlike DAO, where you need to select your, say thief, to open the locked chest or remove trap. This is unnecessary management, annoying and time consuming to 20th locked chest or trap found. On the other hand, who cared that Gothic 1-2-3 character had unlimited carrying capability? Not realistic? Yes. Ease of use? Yes. Pleasure - out of scale.
Some say it's not realistic. But how about NWN2, where you can put 500+ pounds of gear into Neeshka's or Qara's inventory and make them carry that to nearby store? Or limiting your PC as party "speaker". Aha. Very funny for ranger (with "wild child" background) and especially wizard - AFAIR two only classes without any communicative skills.
I can't see any easy answers there. Maybe it will be better to add two system of minigames - one will require tech-specialist presence during lockpicking/hacking/etc, but he will do that personally, cutscene-alike, and another - where all these jobs can be performed by PC, regardless of his class. Or, who say we cannot combine two systems - you want combat oriented team, you deal with locks yourself and play those annoying minigames. You don't want to waste your time - take some tech specialist and he will do that for you.

That's why I came to the conclusion that with Mass Effect the best option to avoid forcing tech-based squaddies on you if you aren't tech-based yourself would be to to have the tech classes and skills merely make things easier for you when it came to the mini-games and the like, by reducing the difficulty and perhaps even allowing you to skip the mini-games entirely at max rank. That way you don't absolutely need them with you to open things, but having them at least has some impact on the gameplay.

I still personally think that a tech class should be needed, but realise that this is the type of game where players want to take particular squaddies with them and don't want to be forced into choosing a tech character all the time. I still don't think just plattering every Shepard regardless of class or skills like they did in Mass Effect 2 is the answer though, especially when the mini-games are so pitifully easy they almost defy the need to even exist. If tech-based skills at least had some impact on them in some manner it would be something. People mocked omni-gel for being something anybody could just smear on an object to open it, but the way the omni-tool has been presented since, one wonders why anybody even bothers to have locks or passwords on anything. They may as well have a sign on every crate saying "Steal me!" and their PIN numbers or passwords on a sticky note on the terminals. Restricting such attempts to tech skills in the original game at least had the semblance of you needing to be a professional tech expert to do these things.

[Dewart]

StephanieBengal wrote...

We're still on this I see...

Yes apparently. I mentioned maybe it should get the lockdown but no such luck... sigh

[SockPuppet317]

The only acceptable reward for loyal fans is for Bioware to give us ME3 for free. Not only that, but all 'Loyal Fan' copies MUST be signed by the entire ME3 team, and hand-delivered by one of the devs to each of the "Loyal Fans' " houses. In addition, the dev must then clean the fan's house.

Oh, and they have to bring us candy, too. (I like PayDays, Bioware. Just a hint.)

I mean, gosh, the 'loyal fans' HAVE been buying their games for however long it takes to be considered a 'loyal fan'. I will accept nothing less than what I have written above. >:|

[Dewart]

SockPuppet317 wrote...

The only acceptable reward for loyal fans is for Bioware to give us ME3 for free. Not only that, but all 'Loyal Fan' copies MUST be signed by the entire ME3 team, and hand-delivered by one of the devs to each of the "Loyal Fans' " houses. In addition, the dev must then clean the fan's house.

Oh, and they have to bring us candy, too. (I like PayDays, Bioware. Just a hint.)

I mean, gosh, the 'loyal fans' HAVE been buying their games for however long it takes to be considered a 'loyal fan'. I will accept nothing less than what I have written above. >:|

You might as well add a foot massage and a back rub too. oh and write each and every one of us into a future game.

[SockPuppet317]

Dewart wrote...

SockPuppet317 wrote...

The only acceptable reward for loyal fans is for Bioware to give us ME3 for free. Not only that, but all 'Loyal Fan' copies MUST be signed by the entire ME3 team, and hand-delivered by one of the devs to each of the "Loyal Fans' " houses. In addition, the dev must then clean the fan's house.

Oh, and they have to bring us candy, too. (I like PayDays, Bioware. Just a hint.)

I mean, gosh, the 'loyal fans' HAVE been buying their games for however long it takes to be considered a 'loyal fan'. I will accept nothing less than what I have written above. >:|

You might as well add a foot massage and a back rub too. oh and write each and every one of us into a future game.

Definitely. I don't see why not.

Oh! Also, for every Shepard that a loyal fan has, Bioware will make a trailer. So, 12 Shepards= 12 Trailers.

These are my demands, Bioware. If you're incapable of meeting them, well....

Consider my preorder cancelled.

[PlumPaul93]

Well I'm sure there will be an achievement or trophy like Long Service Medal from ME2 and you'd only have to beat ME3 one time to get it. Not that achievements are anything special.

[AlanC9]

alliance4g63 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Let me see if I got this right.

You love the game so much that you bought as much content as you could:


And yet, because the company isn't going to give you free stuff you're going to stop buying their products:

I'm reading these correctly?

I said I would stop buying their products if they are heading in the direction they are going. How is that a contradiction?

This is all coming from the direction of ME3, not ME2. I BOUGHT all the DLC for the past games that doesnt mean I will do the same for ME3. Where did I say I would not buy their future products because they arent giving freebies?

My bad. I assumed your post was on topic for the thread rather than being a rant about DLC generally, or maybe about quality, or whatever it is you're talking about. You haven't really been clear about what's gone wrong between ME2 and whatever you think is going on with ME3.

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 janvier 2012 - 08:46 .

[AlanC9]

Terror_K wrote...

That's why I came to the conclusion that with Mass Effect the best option to avoid forcing tech-based squaddies on you if you aren't tech-based yourself would be to to have the tech classes and skills merely make things easier for you when it came to the mini-games and the like, by reducing the difficulty and perhaps even allowing you to skip the mini-games entirely at max rank. That way you don't absolutely need them with you to open things, but having them at least has some impact on the gameplay.

Kinda like NWN2's OC? If your PC isn't a rogue and you don't take Neeshka, you have to ride out a few traps and you miss a little treasure from the borken items when you blow up chests.

[Rudy Lis]

Terror_K wrote...

That's why I came to the conclusion that with Mass Effect the best option to avoid forcing tech-based squaddies on you if you aren't tech-based yourself would be to to have the tech classes and skills merely make things easier for you when it came to the mini-games and the like, by reducing the difficulty and perhaps even allowing you to skip the mini-games entirely at max rank. That way you don't absolutely need them with you to open things, but having them at least has some impact on the gameplay.

I still personally think that a tech class should be needed, but realise that this is the type of game where players want to take particular squaddies with them and don't want to be forced into choosing a tech character all the time. I still don't think just plattering every Shepard regardless of class or skills like they did in Mass Effect 2 is the answer though, especially when the mini-games are so pitifully easy they almost defy the need to even exist. If tech-based skills at least had some impact on them in some manner it would be something. People mocked omni-gel for being something anybody could just smear on an object to open it, but the way the omni-tool has been presented since, one wonders why anybody even bothers to have locks or passwords on anything. They may as well have a sign on every crate saying "Steal me!" and their PIN numbers or passwords on a sticky note on the terminals. Restricting such attempts to tech skills in the original game at least had the semblance of you needing to be a professional tech expert to do these things.

There is idiom in English, can't remember correctly, but something like "you stole those words right out of my mouth". Correct me, if I'm wrong, I hope you understand what I wanted to say.

I have no objections for need for tech-specialist or tech-skill, if Shepard's class allows that, since I think choosing "favorite skill" is a bit off the rocker - soldiers who "accidently" specialized in hacking? Of course, we are all different and have weird hobbies, but still. 

I think we already have another for hacking/lockpicking games - expendables. Not like omni-gel - at the end of my first playthough I had 999 units of it. I think of something more like "disposable hacking/lockpicking module", Splinter Cell alike. They should be expensive and/or reasonably limited in numbers, but should allow you to skip minigames and open locked area, even if you don't want to spent your skillpoints on technical skills or to keep tech-oriented team-mate around.
Regarding need of locks and password - back in army we've been told that we standing on guard duty as scarecrows, to keep random public away, not to stop determined attackers (no chances, anyway). Same with field fortification - well prepared and determined attacker will went through them, eventually, but not without losses. Same with locks and passwords.   

Plus I think ME2 games were misbalanced - I've never failed "pin" games, usually had 50% if time left without upgrade module, yet during hacking minigames even with hacking module upgrade, time ran out more than few times, just because required code fragment either was blocked or not appeared at all. ME1 minigames were misbalanced too - in most cases more frequent variant (with moving arrow) could be solved in couple of seconds, while other required trial-error approach.
But that's just "random gripe"

AlanC9 wrote...

Kinda like NWN2's OC? If your PC isn't a rogue and you don't take Neeshka, you have to ride out a few traps and you miss a little treasure from the borken items when you blow up chests.

I already said that earlier, but missing dialogues were much more problematic, if your character was not among "talkative" and skilled classes. If you didn't multiclass into rogue or bard (multiclassing into bard is another lulz - what, field dragon blood transfusion?) and have rather high Int score, you practically bound to lose all speech-challenges.

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 26 janvier 2012 - 09:09 .

[Dewart]

SockPuppet317 wrote...

Dewart wrote...

SockPuppet317 wrote...

The only acceptable reward for loyal fans is for Bioware to give us ME3 for free. Not only that, but all 'Loyal Fan' copies MUST be signed by the entire ME3 team, and hand-delivered by one of the devs to each of the "Loyal Fans' " houses. In addition, the dev must then clean the fan's house.

Oh, and they have to bring us candy, too. (I like PayDays, Bioware. Just a hint.)

I mean, gosh, the 'loyal fans' HAVE been buying their games for however long it takes to be considered a 'loyal fan'. I will accept nothing less than what I have written above. >:|

You might as well add a foot massage and a back rub too. oh and write each and every one of us into a future game.

Definitely. I don't see why not.

Oh! Also, for every Shepard that a loyal fan has, Bioware will make a trailer. So, 12 Shepards= 12 Trailers.

These are my demands, Bioware. If you're incapable of meeting them, well....

Consider my preorder cancelled.

lol I've still got a solid 10 right now but I have deleted like 13. So they have to find a way to make trailers for those 13 that no longer exist as well.

[Rudy Lis]

Dewart wrote...

lol I've still got a solid 10 right now but I have deleted like 13. So they have to find a way to make trailers for those 13 that no longer exist as well.

Now when you say it, I wonder, will ME3 ends like Matrix? You know, Shepard-Neo awakens, seen Morpheus and says "riiight, lets take blue one now".

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 26 janvier 2012 - 09:25 .

[Dewart]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Dewart wrote...

lol I've still got a solid 10 right now but I have deleted like 13. So they have to find a way to make trailers for those 13 that no longer exist as well.

Now when you say it, I wonder, will ME3 ends like Matrix? You know, Shepard-Neo awakens, seen Morpheus and says "riiight, lets take blue one now".

Or Shepard wakes up from a dream and he is still on the Normandy 1 and he is about to do that first mission with Nihlus. lol that would be...

[Rudy Lis]

Dewart wrote...

Or Shepard wakes up from a dream and he is still on the Normandy 1 and he is about to do that first mission with Nihlus. lol that would be...

...recursion? Just imagined - Shep, Kaydan, Anderson and Nihlus, all with headache drinking some "Adams' special marinade" with mineral water and Shepard mumbles: "we told you not to mix turian liquor with wodka"

And on background we can hear Sovereign laugh:
- Yes, Harbringer was right, that organic freak show is strong stuff!

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 26 janvier 2012 - 09:52 .