411 réponses à ce sujet

[hangmans tree]

Stanley Woo wrote...

"Loyal fans" are getting what they've always gotten: a great effort by BioWare to make an awesome game experience for you, regular, direct communication with developers in the BioWare Social Network, newsletters, social media updates, notice of contests, promos, and other events, and generally, the knowledge that you are part of an awesome online community that we love!

You are also getting the same promos and exclusives that all users old and new will get. We are offering such content to new users in the hopes that they will like it and become new "loyal fans," and we are offering it to old users who already know what we're all about. We hope that the old users will be great ambassadors for BioWare and the MAss Effect franchise here in the BioWare Social Network, by being examples of mature, fun, revered community members and forumites. We hope you will help us out by answering newbies' questions, helping to guide them to appropriate discussion threads, and making them feel welcome just as others made you feel welcome when you were a newbie.

In short, longtime fans get our respect and thanks for sticking with us, and the expectation that they will stay with us for years to come.

Not gona cut it

[McAllyster]

Loyal, veteran fans of the series are already rewarded:

- with two great games
- plus we can carry over all choices from the previous games.

ME3 will MEAN MORE to us, we will experience greater emotional impact, etc. We care more about the companions like Garrus, Liara, we will cheer when we meet again with Wrex and so on.

OK, some veteran awards may look cool like a veteran only armor - but it is not really necessary, not to me.

Modifié par McAllyster, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:27 .

[Terror_K]

I wonder what the distinction is between "Loyal Fans" and "Fans who love us no matter what we do" exactly. I for one think that loyalty is something that needs to be earned, and not only that but remain to be worthy of said loyalty as time goes on.

I guess what I'm wondering is, how do BioWare feel about those who were once "Loyal Fans" for a good decade or so, but more recently have come to feel as if said loyalty is coming into question due to recent events? Once you slip off the "Loyal Fan" boat and into the waters of dissatisfaction or even merely concern, are these opinions no longer considered?

The thing is, I don't really consider myself a "Loyal Fan" of BioWare any more. Not since they lost their "Free Pass" (i.e. any BioWare game is immediately purchased just because they made it) in the wake of Dragon Age 2. I'm still here, I've still got the Mass Effect 3 CE on pre-order, along with the next novel, the Art of Mass Effect book and the new figurines, etc. but overall I'm not really that happy with the company and many of the decisions they've made of late, and am rather concerned with how ME3 is looking, where the company is heading and what their future titles will be like.

I guess I just feel that BioWare have "lost their way" in a sense, and if they really do just ignore those who have that feeling then things are worse than I feared. It then seems like it's not so much a case of "Loyal Fans" who matter so much as "Obedient Fans" who must share the same vision. Those who stay loyal will be rewarded... those who aren't because they feel let down lately are tossed aside. I mean, Mr. Woo himself says, "the expectation that they will stay with us for years to come."

Modifié par Terror_K, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:31 .

[ItsFreakinJesus]

I got an awesome multiplayer mode.

I'm set.

[MadLaughter]

Regular, direct communication with the developers. I would correct that statement to say "regular, direct communication with the community managers who act snarky and tell us how wrong we are, with the occasional cool insight by a developer. But mostly community managers who post things like "Can I say all of you?" When asked about their least favorite character in Mass Effect."

And the rest of that first paragraph is just a lot of words that sum up to mean "advertising." You know how we win contests for Bioware? It isn't "Oh hey, the best fanart gets a free copy!" or "Make a video to show us why you would make a good squadmate for Shepard!" Or at least, not as often as it's just "Hey, use this hashtag to spread the word of our game on twitter! Share this on facebook! Do our advertising for us and you can get a Normandy Avatar! Something that costs us zero dollars because they are infinite!"

I do it because I'm not against telling people about a game I think will rock. But don't act like it's some kind of privilege that the loyal fans are often just your unwitting advertising force. I don't expect more for being a 'loyal fan', I would just settle for some honesty and transparency from Bioware.

[Haventh]

I've been a fan of Mass Effect since it was released on PC, though I don't consider myself more sacred than other fans.

Bioiware is already making a great effort, and spend a lot of time to complete a game for us, the fans (and by that I mean all of us, new and old). The import is enough for me, as reward for playing the other games.

[hangmans tree]

twisty77 wrote...


The Mass Effect series, along with Halo and GoW, are the defining Xbox 360 experiences. BioWare hasn't declined in quality since EA acquired them. I never played DA2(never been into fantastical RPG's), but I think the ME series and SWTOR are examples why BioWare is on the up.

I can't f-ing wait for ME3.

Examples... of what really? Your short span of time being familiar with BW games maybe? Just wondering and what 'Halo and GoW' and 'the defining Xbox 360 experiences' have to do with the subject? I'm at a loss here...

[Rudy Lis]

Incoming! (Little big wall of text). Nerd rage mostly.

Stanley Woo wrote...

"Loyal fans" are getting what they've always gotten: a great effort by BioWare to make an awesome game experience for you,

Two letters, one digit: DA2.

Yeah, I know, DA2 happens, with all our upgrades, we still humans, we still make mistakes.  I'm no exception, I can't say how many mistakes I've done in this very post.

Just to clarify - Yes, I didn't like DA2. Most aspects of gameplay and graphical changes, at least. Although witty Shepa.. ahem, witty Hawke is one of the reasons pushing me forward. Main reason, to be honest - I'm going through quests and battles not for quests and battles sake, like before, but only to hear another "witty one liner, Alistair style". Witty/ironic VO so far is one and only thing that "justified" money spent on DA2.
 Can't say much about "story" - hasn't travel much far and probably won't do that in foreseeable future (a.k.a. "until beat ME3").
Have no idea how many people will agree with me, but just in case my words offended someone - my apologies.

Stanley Woo wrote...

regular, direct communication with developers in the BioWare Social Network,

No offence, but why it works just like a broken one-way radio? We hear you, but you don't hear us. And even if you (not you personally) hear us, then the answer is lost in static. If there is answer at all in the first place.

Stanley Woo wrote...

newsletters, social media updates,

What's that and what's that for?
Release date is more than enough (because you put too many damn spoilers in your newsreel, we want teasers, not spoilers (at least I do)). Unless, of course, there are great news that certain nations in East Europe were thrown over dick once again and  they will have great and amusing pen-paling time with they friends in local support ahead. And very serious talk with their "significant others" discussing "why they bought another game with same title". Sort of.

Stanley Woo wrote...

notice of contests, promos, and other events,

"Which are unavailable in your country". I could quote whole George Carlin "ad" thing here, but better go and listen him yourself.
No offence. It just happened one time too many.

Stanley Woo wrote...

and generally, the knowledge that you are part of an awesome online community that we love!

Well, thank you. Although my wish to quote abovementioned George Carlin's story multiplied somewhere around 5 times.

Stanley Woo wrote...

You are also getting the same promos and exclusives that all users old and new will get. We are offering such content to new users in the hopes that they will like it and become new "loyal fans," and we are offering it to old users who already know what we're all about. We hope that the old users will be great ambassadors for BioWare and the MAss Effect franchise here in the BioWare Social Network, by being examples of mature, fun, revered community members and forumites. We hope you will help us out by answering newbies' questions, helping to guide them to appropriate discussion threads, and making them feel welcome just as others made you feel welcome when you were a newbie.

In short, longtime fans get our respect and thanks for sticking with us, and the expectation that they will stay with us for years to come.

I'm not sure am I fitting under "loyal fan" term, since I missed Star Wars franchise and Jade Empire entirely. Personally, I prefer to refer myself as  "Old gruffy pepperbox" for occasions like this. Regardless of titles, all I want - is the good game. I mean really good game, not game that was sold in good numbers. Not that I blame developers for messing those two terms, but I doubt that most sales numbers came from "loyal fans", according to amount of ad, promo and other stuff, that were newbies who done sales, not we.

Because we don't need any of that. We know you. We trust you. That's why we buy your games. Preorder them. Even when you throw us over dick and tell us that we are not "eligible" to participate in certain "activities". Because we loyal (without quotes). Because we trust you. That's why we will order your new games, just to support our favorite studio. And we will follow you. Until you disappoint us completely - because we can let slide few scrapes and burns, should we like other aspects of game. But we will remember and will remind you, if you will keep your chin too up. Just because we loyal. We were there: on Lanios III, in Candlekeep, in Athkathla, in Neverwinter. So behave and don't disappoint us - because we will remember, no matter what.
No, that is not a threat. 

But if put jokes and serious cat aside, as long-tyme player, all I want to see in good game from our  favorite studio is more little messages from developers, indicating that they remember us too. Space hamster, for example, is definitely for the win addition. Add something like that. More of it.

[Terror_K]

Arcian wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

The thing is, I don't really consider myself a "Loyal Fan" of BioWare any more. Not since they lost their "Free Pass" (i.e. any BioWare game is immediately purchased just because they made it) in the wake of Dragon Age 2. I'm still here,[/i][i] I've still got the Mass Effect 3 CE on pre-order, along with the next novel, the Art of Mass Effect book and the new figurines, etc. but overall I'm not really that happy with the company and many of the decisions they've made of late, and am rather concerned with how ME3 is looking, where the company is heading and what their future titles will be like.

I think I have identified your problem.

Oh, har har <_<

[Someone With Mass]

I think a loyal fan should not be swayed by such petty things as DLC armor and such.

[PaulSX]

Don't fool yourself. They are doing business and there are only profits in business no sense of loyal.

[PaulSX]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I think a loyal fan should not be swayed by such petty things as DLC armor and such.

This, I totally agree with.

[Terror_K]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Two letters, one digit: DA2.

Yeah, I know, DA2 happens, with all our upgrades, we still humans, we still make mistakes.  I'm no exception, I can't say how many mistakes I've done in this very post.

Just to clarify - Yes, I didn't like DA2. Most aspects of gameplay and graphical changes, at least. Although witty Shepa.. ahem, witty Hawke is one of the reasons pushing me forward. Main reason, to be honest - I'm going through quests and battles not for quests and battles sake, like before, but only to hear another "witty one liner, Alistair style". Witty/ironic VO so far is one and only thing that "justified" money spent on DA2.
 Can't say much about "story" - hasn't travel much far and probably won't do that in foreseeable future (a.k.a. "until beat ME3").
Have no idea how many people will agree with me, but just in case my words offended someone - my apologies.

Dragon Age 2 alone isn't a bad enough reason to turn your back on a developer, especially if they've largely made you happy for a good decade and a half prior to that. The attitudes, mentality and even derogatory nature of some od the key devs behind the game both prior and following its launch, on top of the whole direction the series took and the reasons behind it, however are. Everybody is capable of making a bad game and nobody bats a thousand. But sabotaging and purposefully making a conscious decision to practically give your original fans the middle finger without apology is a different matter entirely. That creates a far bigger stain than a single poor title does.

"Which are unavailable in your country". I could quote whole George Carlin "ad" thing here, but better go and listen him yourself.
No offence. It just happened one time too many.

Not to mention cutting some people out entirely with things like exclusive pre-order bonuses and the like. My personal favourite being from New Zealand is that the pre-order item that everybody else gets no matter where they get the game from is reduced to having to buy it from one store in a faux-Collector's edition that's nowhere near as good as the actual CE. Of course it wouldn't be so much an issue if BioWare did something akin to CD Projekt, Obsidian/Bethesda and Eidos Montreal and would offer the previously unattainable DLC's for sale afterwards, but we've no indication of this.

Not to mention that while most "Loyal Fans" would want them would have likely have bought their first series of Mass Effect figurines already, there's no indication that they'll be able to get hold of the DLC coming out for the re-releases beyond having to fork out for another set of them.

[ElitePinecone]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I'm pretty sure my reward for supporting Mass Effect is more Mass Effect.

[Terror_K]

suntzuxi wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

I think a loyal fan should not be swayed by such petty things as DLC armor and such.

This, I totally agree with.

In most cases it's more the principle of the thing than anything else. I firmly believe that there should always be a way for a fan of something to obtain it without silly restrictions such as "you don't live in America" or "you didn't buy a new copy from all five stores with different incentives" and the like. I'm not personally against pre-order bonuses or even DLC that comes with other items, but there should always be alternate ways to obtain it, even if it's later on down the track. Fans shouldn't have to jump through hoop after hoop after hoop just to get DLC for their favourite game.

[MadLaughter]

You know one reason companies like Amazon are so profitable and dominate in customer satisfaction? Because they reward loyalty with honesty, transparency, and a little extra. I've heard multiple stories of people calling Amazon with issues, and the Amazon CS saying "You've been very loyal to us, we'll work extra hard to help you out, and here's a little gift card for your trouble, since you've been our customer for years."

EA likes to have their legions of fans (customers) be treated like pawns, sending us on advertising missions for avatar items instead of holding REAL contests. They hire community Managers who treat us like dirt, spending page after page tearing people down, never building them back up. A kingdom built on a foundation of snark and spite is one doomed to fall.

[TobyHasEyes]

 By loyal, do people mean 'I enjoyed their products and kept on buying them'? If so, I am not certain where the idea comes that you are owed something in that respect

Unless there are people here who have been buying Bioware games simply to support the company, and that was what dictated their choice, then I don't see how you can claim to merit being rewarded..

 I bought the dvd of Planet Earth by BBC Earth, as I thought it was great. I then did the same with Life (also made by BBC Earth) and have done the same recently with Frozen Planet (also by BBC Earth).. so by sheer association it would appear I am loyal to BBC Earth, as I have mainly stuck with their products when it comes to nature documentaries

 But the sentiment I am left with is appreciation and gratitude that such great shows were made, not a 'I think I deserve a reward for coming back and buying your products' feeling. And that is how I feel with Bioware. And I can't get my head around the idea that repeatedly paying to enjoy their products means you are owed something.. or that if you aren't given something special then you have been cheated/taken for granted

[Phaedon]

Doonerbandit wrote...

 With the addition of  stuff to attract new fans. I was wondering what can us LOYAL fans who played the first two Mass Effect games can expect as a bonus reward. I don't mean "you can unlock" items I mean when I port my games what bonus items am I going to get. I ask because a lot has been done to attract new fan's eg: Multi-player most LOYAL fans where opposed to, the omni-blade which looks like something from Halo and now an entire hand holding component written into the game JUST for noobs who ignored the first two games. What about us the players who have supported this amaizing franchise since day one. Please just a gun, armour or a casual outfit PLEASE.  

Unearned entitlement is always fun.

Here, let's talk about my good friend Nick, a much more loyal fan than you.

Modifié par Phaedon, 24 janvier 2012 - 11:40 .

[Zanallen]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 By loyal, do people mean 'I enjoyed their products and kept on buying them'? If so, I am not certain where the idea comes that you are owed something in that respect

Unless there are people here who have been buying Bioware games simply to support the company, and that was what dictated their choice, then I don't see how you can claim to merit being rewarded..

 I bought the dvd of Planet Earth by BBC Earth, as I thought it was great. I then did the same with Life (also made by BBC Earth) and have done the same recently with Frozen Planet (also by BBC Earth).. so by sheer association it would appear I am loyal to BBC Earth, as I have mainly stuck with their products when it comes to nature documentaries

 But the sentiment I am left with is appreciation and gratitude that such great shows were made, not a 'I think I deserve a reward for coming back and buying your products' feeling. And that is how I feel with Bioware. And I can't get my head around the idea that repeatedly paying to enjoy their products means you are owed something.. or that if you aren't given something special then you have been cheated/taken for granted

This. Good god people. You bought a video game. Your reward for that is the ability to play said game. Hell, Bioware is already giving you extras in the form of stat boosts and extra resources for importing your character, not to mention the not insignificant bonus of actually having all of your choices carry over.

[Icinix]

Phaedon wrote...

Unearned entitlement is always fun.

Bought entitlement is even better.

[hawat333]

Ah, I want a space pony.
The loyal fans, for being loyal and sticking with company, encouraging other people to get to know the game, have been rewarded. The reward is actually that Mass Effect 3 was possible to made.
We win as much a s the BioWare does.

[Graunt]

Terror_K wrote...

Dragon Age 2 alone isn't a bad enough reason to turn your back on a developer, especially if they've largely made you happy for a good decade and a half prior to that.

The funny thing too is that if DA2 had been released by anyone other than Bethesda, Blizzard or Bioware it would not have any anywhere near as much backlash.  I wouldn't be suprised at all if we have a bunch of closet cases who actually did enjoy it, but would rather complain because it doesn't live up to their expectation of how a Bioware game should be.

If the developer had been Obsidan, people would be singing high praises of how fantastically written it was (regardless of what's actually there), but that we have another KOTOR2 on our hands.  They would talk about the same issues they've already talked about, but in the end say it's a pretty good game just because what was actually released is something you could expect Obsidian to release more or less.

It's fine if people want to be upset by how obviously rushed it was for $$$, but everything beyond that is kind of pathetic.  So Bioware finally made a game that did not meet or exceed expectations--that must mean that they are incapable of recovery and that everything that they had done right in the past (which is being used as the ammo in the first place) never existed.

Modifié par Graunt, 24 janvier 2012 - 11:51 .

[Phaedon]

Icinix wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Unearned entitlement is always fun.

Bought entitlement is even better.

That sounds suspiciously close to bribery.

Modifié par Phaedon, 24 janvier 2012 - 12:00 .

[count_4]

Graunt wrote...

It's fine if people want to be upset by how obviously rushed it was for $$$, but everything beyond that is kind of pathetic.  So Bioware finally made a game that did not meet or exceed expectations--that must mean that they are incapable of recovery

You're missing the point a little. 
The game did not meet the expectations because it was rushed. And it was rushed to generate more profit (why else would you rush development...) and it is legitimate to be concerned that this will happen again as EA is still the producing company.
BioWare has nothing to do with it except that they gave in to EA's demands. People simply lost their trust, not in the skill of BioWare to make a great game but in the marketing decisions of the company in command and the ability of BioWare to resist these decisions.