166 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghidorah14]

Spicen wrote...

yaah, as if killing innocents is justified.
By the way wat sort of human r u?

First off, I find it hilarious how you're jumping all over people for choosing the templar side. Its a video game, dingas.

Second, yeah killing innocents is bad, but when roughly 70-90% of the mages are insane demon-whorshipping power-hungry douchebags, then I'm sorry, but sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

Third, what about the templays who are just doing their duty? Are they not as innocent or as human as the mages who seek to kill them? The templars are there to protect the people and keep the mages in check. When war breaks out, they have to take action.

Fourth, its a video game. Real lives dont hang in the balance. Hurf durf. Stop overreacting.

Fith, **** the mages.

Modifié par Ghidorah14, 26 janvier 2012 - 11:52 .

[kyles3]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Second, yeah killing innocents is bad, but when roughly 70-90% of the mages are insane demon-whorshipping power-hungry douchebags, then I'm sorry, but sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

There was no evidence that any significant percentage of Circle mages--not the apostates Hawke encounters--had turned to blood magic, only Meredith's idol-fueled paranoia. Greagoir had good reason to call for the Rite, but Meredith did not. 

[Camenae]

Why is this here? On my screen, it says "Dragon Age II General Discussion (No Spoilers Allowed) and then less than an inch below that it says "...(Massive Spoilers)". Hehe.

[WhiteKnyght]

ckriley wrote...

Sorry to post this here, but since I purchased a digital copy of the game through Xbox Live Marketplace, I have been informed that there is no way to register my game on this site, which means I can't post in the appropriate forums because that's for registered game owners only, and I'd really like to discuss it.

I contacted EA three times and Xbox customer service twice.  Finally, an Xbox rep told me straight up there's no way to register your games on the official site because they do not provide UPC codes for digital purchases.  And the confirmation number they sent is invalid on here.  So, I did everything I could to try and resolve it.  Very frustrating process.

So, with all that being said, if you don't want to read any spoilers, stop reading now.  Again, I apologize but I'd like to discuss aspects of the game and how they might be improved for a possible DA3, but I'm unable to because I purchased a digital copy and can't register it on here.  This forum is pretty much it.



Spoilers after this point.




Okay, let me first start by saying I played through the game twice.  Once as a mage supporting the Circle, and once as a warrior supporting the templars.  And I have to say, this is the first BioWare game I have ever played where your choices are utterly meaningless.  Regardless of who you choose to support in Act 3, you will fight the exact same people and the exact same end boss.

But even in light of that, it is difficult to support the mages.  Not only is Hawke's mother killed by an insane mage, but Anders turns out to be a mass murderer.   On top of that, First Enchanter Orsino turns into some giant Abomination to kill everyone.  So, even if you were supporting the mages, you have to put him down.  Not to mention Merril messing around with blood magic which leads to a horrific ending.  In my warrior playthrough, I actually ended up slaughtering her entire clan after the other dalish elves confront my party as they are leaving the cave.  I tried to have Merril's back and they all attacked us for it.

Supporting the templars seemed like the right thing to do despite Meredith's harsh ways.  I know the argument used by the Circle saying that it is because of Meredith that they are resorting to such tactics, but in the end, all this does is prove Meredith right.

But then when all is said and done, you have to kill Meredith anyway.  Kind of poor writing and I'm hoping DA3 gets back to its origins (pun intended.)

You're going to profile thousands of existing mages over the actions of a few people?

In that case, all the humans in Thedas should die because of Loghain, Petrice, Meredith, Prosper, and Lambert.

And all the elves should die because of  Zathrian, Danyla's daughter, Fenris, Velanna, and Huon.

And all the dwarves should die because of Beraht, Jarvia, Bhelen, Dougal, and Bartrand.

And all the Kossith should die because of Arishok, Sten, Generic Sten, Generic Sten, and Generic Sten.

It's not ethical to slaughter a tower full of innocent people for a crime they had no involvement with simply because they share 1 common trait with the true culprit.


Mages are people too. Yet whenever a single mage does something bad it's used as an excuse to condemn them all while the overall crimes of normal people far outweigh theirs.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 27 janvier 2012 - 02:19 .

[Ghidorah14]

kyles3 wrote...

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Second, yeah killing innocents is bad, but when roughly 70-90% of the mages are insane demon-whorshipping power-hungry douchebags, then I'm sorry, but sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

There was no evidence that any significant percentage of Circle mages--not the apostates Hawke encounters--had turned to blood magic, only Meredith's idol-fueled paranoia. Greagoir had good reason to call for the Rite, but Meredith did not. 

Lemme refrase that.

When roughly 70-90% of the mages YOU ENCOUNTER are insane demon-whorshipping
power-hungry douchebags, then sacrifices must be made.

The circle mages could all be the nicest, most sane folks in all the land, but throughout the whole campaign, the game has taught and conditioned us to hate and suspect mages by showing us the worst of the lot on a constant basis.

[Ghidorah14]

Double post. Please ignore/delete.

Modifié par Ghidorah14, 27 janvier 2012 - 02:22 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

kyles3 wrote...

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Second, yeah killing innocents is bad, but when roughly 70-90% of the mages are insane demon-whorshipping power-hungry douchebags, then I'm sorry, but sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

There was no evidence that any significant percentage of Circle mages--not the apostates Hawke encounters--had turned to blood magic, only Meredith's idol-fueled paranoia. Greagoir had good reason to call for the Rite, but Meredith did not. 

Lemme refrase that.

When roughly 70-90% of the mages YOU ENCOUNTER are insane demon-whorshipping
power-hungry douchebags, then sacrifices must be made.

The circle mages could all be the nicest, most sane folks in all the land, but throughout the whole campaign, the game has taught and conditioned us to hate and suspect mages by showing us the worst of the lot on a constant basis.

The Right of Annulment was created and legalized as a last resort when the Circle became so out of control and corrupt that there was absolutely no other option.

It was never intented or allowed to be used as a punishment.

Greagoir had some good reason to invoke it, but even then the Circle was still able to be saved. But Meredith had been trying to get approval to invoke it ever since the beginning of Act 3, well before Anders blew up the Chantry. He just gave her what she percieved to be an excuse.

What Meredith did was an abuse of power brought on by a combination of her personal bigotry and the insanity the Idol caused. She even admits in the Templar route that she wants the mages to fear her, even though Templars are supposed to exist to protect mages as much as they protect people from mages.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 27 janvier 2012 - 03:07 .

[Ghidorah14]

The Right of Annulment was created and legalized as a last resort when the Circle became so out of control and corrupt that there was absolutely no other option.

It was never intented or allowed to be used as a punishment.

Yes, we all know that. Anyone who played DAO would know that.

Greagoir had some good reason to invoke it, but even then the Circle was still able to be saved. But Meredith had been trying to get approval to invoke it ever since the beginning of Act 3, well before Anders blew up the Chantry. He just gave her what she percieved to be an excuse.

Well yeah, thats the story. Meredith was a zealot who was driven mad by the idol.

I never said it was the only reasonable thing to do. Just that I can totally understand their perspective.

What Meredith did was an abuse of power brought on by a combination of her personal bigotry and the insanity the Idol caused. She even admits in the Templar route that she wants the mages to fear her, even though Templars are supposed to exist to protect mages as much as they protect people from mages.

Again, this is all information we already know. I'm just sayin' that I was totally cool with killing mages.

Hell, there's that one scene with the girl mage who's like "I DIDNT DO ANYTHING WRONG! LEAVE ME ALONE!" But what happens? SHE TURNS INTO AN ABOMINATION.

Nice going, you just proved the templar's suspicious right!

Now you might say "well, they pushed her into a corner! She was desperate!"

And to that I say; she didnt try fighting back with any normal magic. She went straight to the demon thing. Not exactly the mark of an innocent mage who doesnt practice forbidden arts.

[Orian Tabris]

Ignoring roleplaying as a certain type of person/character...

Unless you're a pretentious, self-righteous jerk, who lives better than the majority do, in real life, it's hard NOT to support the mages.

After Anders does the thing he is infamous for, you'd have to not care for those below you (or to be an idiotic moron), to choose the people who are officially in the right, over the subjegated.

So basically it's a morality thing.

The immoral/selfish choose the templars and the (resentful or) better people choose the mages.

[Spicen]

Orian Tabris wrote...

Ignoring roleplaying as a certain type of person/character...

Unless you're a pretentious, self-righteous jerk, who lives better than the majority do, in real life, it's hard NOT to support the mages.

After Anders does the thing he is infamous for, you'd have to not care for those below you (or to be an idiotic moron), to choose the people who are officially in the right, over the subjegated.

So basically it's a morality thing.

The immoral/selfish choose the templars and the (resentful or) better people choose the mages.

Could not agree more with ya.

[Spicen]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Spicen wrote...

yaah, as if killing innocents is justified.
By the way wat sort of human r u?

First off, I find it hilarious how you're jumping all over people for choosing the templar side. Its a video game, dingas.

Second, yeah killing innocents is bad, but when roughly 70-90% of the mages are insane demon-whorshipping power-hungry douchebags, then I'm sorry, but sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

Third, what about the templays who are just doing their duty? Are they not as innocent or as human as the mages who seek to kill them? The templars are there to protect the people and keep the mages in check. When war breaks out, they have to take action.

Fourth, its a video game. Real lives dont hang in the balance. Hurf durf. Stop overreacting.

Fith, **** the mages.

Actually u forgot it was YOU who overreacted by lining out how awful mages are. and any way if u found my opinion rude then pardon me, i was just justifying my support for mages.

[Ghidorah14]

Actually u forgot it was YOU who overreacted by lining out how awful mages are. and any way if u found my opinion rude then pardon me, i was just justifying my support for mages.

KILL THE MAGES!

KILL ALL THE MAGES!!!

[FaWa]

I'm the exact opposite. I just feel wrong when I side with the templars.

[PrinceLionheart]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Anders and Orsino have the be the biggest idiots in the whole game. They basically proved Meredith right. I'm not saying they shouldnt be able to defend themselves, but after they did what they did (no spoilers blarg), I felt pretty stupid.

I kinda of agree. Thing is, I don't support Meredith just because just one thing seems like it'll push her over the edge. That said, and I'm not sure if it was just because of a gameplay design, damn near every mage in the circle turned to blood magic and became abominations in the end. I understand their lives were in danger, but at the same time it doesn't make a Circle-less world sound that endearing when so many people run the risk of becoming abominations.

Orian Tabris wrote...

The immoral/selfish choose the templars and the (resentful or) better people choose the mages.

Way to use a Straw man fallacy. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie]

Modifié par PrinceLionheart, 27 janvier 2012 - 03:09 .

[Xilizhra]

It was game design, a flaw, and Bioware admitted it. And Meredith is never proven right about anything; self-fulfilling prophecies don't count.

Third, what about the templays who are just doing their duty? Are they not as innocent or as human as the mages who seek to kill them? The templars are there to protect the people and keep the mages in check. When war breaks out, they have to take action.

No. Willing members of a corrupt, evil and frequently genocidal religious army.

[PrinceLionheart]

Xilizhra wrote...

It was game design, a flaw, and Bioware admitted it. And Meredith is never proven right about anything; self-fulfilling prophecies don't count.

There was corruption in the circle though. As insane and paranoid as Meredith was, she was correct about that.

[Spicen]

Ghidorah14 wrote...

Actually u forgot it was YOU who overreacted by lining out how awful mages are. and any way if u found my opinion rude then pardon me, i was just justifying my support for mages.

KILL THE MAGES!

KILL ALL THE MAGES!!!

whoa, somethin's wrong with u, u shud really go to a doctor man.

[OdanUrr]

Xilizhra wrote...

It was game design, a flaw, and Bioware admitted it. And Meredith is never proven right about anything; self-fulfilling prophecies don't count.

Third, what about the templays who are just doing their duty? Are they not as innocent or as human as the mages who seek to kill them? The templars are there to protect the people and keep the mages in check. When war breaks out, they have to take action.

No. Willing members of a corrupt, evil and frequently genocidal religious army.

Religious or not, the Templars are an organisation and they've been performing a function for millennia: guarding the people inside and outside the many Circles throughout the land. Of course, they also hunt down demons, apostates, and the like. The fact is that, as in any organisation, there are people who believe in what it stands for (e.g.: Cullen, Greagoir) and then there are those who work the system to their advantage (e.g.: Alrik, Varnell). To proclaim all templars are evil is just as wrong as saying all mages are demons.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 27 janvier 2012 - 03:23 .

[Xilizhra]

There was corruption in the circle though. As insane and paranoid as Meredith was, she was correct about that.

Much of it being her own fault; the corruption in Act 3 was solely because she'd killed everyone in the underground who wasn't corrupt.

Religious or not, the Templars are an organisation and they've been performing a function for millennia: guarding the people inside and outside the many Circles throughout the land. Of course, they also hunt down demons, apostates, and the like. The fact is that, as in any organisation, there are people who believe in what it stands for (e.g.: Cullen, Greagoir) and then there are those who work the system to their advantage (e.g.: Alrik, Varnell). To proclaim all templars are evil is just as wrong as saying all mages are demons

They may not all be evil, but none are innocents or civilians.

[Spicen]

wow at first mages were being pulverized by pro templars. atleast i now know im not the only mage sympathiser

[PrinceLionheart]

Xilizhra wrote...

There was corruption in the circle though. As insane and paranoid as Meredith was, she was correct about that.

Much of it being her own fault; the corruption in Act 3 was solely because she'd killed everyone in the underground who wasn't corrupt.

I don't think Meredith has any responsiblity for Orsino being a bloodmage, or his protection of Quentin.

[OdanUrr]

Xilizhra wrote...

There was corruption in the circle though. As insane and paranoid as Meredith was, she was correct about that.

Much of it being her own fault; the corruption in Act 3 was solely because she'd killed everyone in the underground who wasn't corrupt.

Religious or not, the Templars are an organisation and they've been performing a function for millennia: guarding the people inside and outside the many Circles throughout the land. Of course, they also hunt down demons, apostates, and the like. The fact is that, as in any organisation, there are people who believe in what it stands for (e.g.: Cullen, Greagoir) and then there are those who work the system to their advantage (e.g.: Alrik, Varnell). To proclaim all templars are evil is just as wrong as saying all mages are demons

They may not all be evil, but none are innocents or civilians.

As for the civilian part you're right, they are, in essence, a military organisation. As for the innocent part, what exactly do you mean by that?

[OdanUrr]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There was corruption in the circle though. As insane and paranoid as Meredith was, she was correct about that.

Much of it being her own fault; the corruption in Act 3 was solely because she'd killed everyone in the underground who wasn't corrupt.

I don't think Meredith has any responsiblity for Orsino being a bloodmage, or his protection of Quentin.

Agreed. Orsino made a choice, a poor one. So did Meredith.

[Xilizhra]

I don't think Meredith has any responsiblity for Orsino being a bloodmage, or his protection of Quentin.

Orsino wouldn't need to have protected Quentin if Meredith wouldn't have attacked the Circle had she known about him.

As for the civilian part you're right, they are, in essence, a military organisation. As for the innocent part, what exactly do you mean by that?

All are legitimate targets in a wartime situation, which this is. And I would also argue that the templars' oppression of the mages would count as a de facto one.

[Malanu]

My Mage Hawke apparently is the only mage on Thedas that
1) Abided by the no Blood Magic law
2) Destroyed every demon he encountered.

When pushed to the edge why has every mage gone, "well If I'm being accused I might as well!"

Frankly to be able to perform blood magic you would have needed to study it in the first place. And you don't just knoww how to summon demons you need to learn the rituals! I never gave my mages access to blood magic because it is a personal choice. One that Mages could have made.

Yet the role model of a circle just went, "Pffft, Here's the blood magic I never learned to use!" Mages are literally treated as broken adicts in this game. and they frankly prove themselves to be deserving of the treatment they get. It's why my mage sided with the Templars (along with a good dose of Irony)!