166 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Also, even though it's said there are children in there who will also be killed, I think whatever power that be that censors that kind of thing would be all over Bioware if it showed the senseless slaughter of little kids.

Pity, that'd bring the point home better. I'm never really sure why showing the senseless slaughter of innocent adults gets received better.

[masseffectexpert94]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Take into account that mages have been murdered, hunted and made tranquill for the smallest reasons for 1000 years. The chantry also tried to genocide the elves and plan to march on orzammar in the future, mages fight back the only way they know how. Anders is the only one who is willing to fight back without the black arts, the grand cleric tells meredith and orcino to go away everytime there is a fight. Mages need to be heard and will only be free once the chantey lies in ruin once and for all!

Don't get me wrong i'm pro mage but how much danger can a mage produce? They have abilities which are beyond human. A free mage brings suspicion that is just the reality. How many stories of blood mages causing terror have we heard so far? shall everyone be in danger because a group of people want freedom? is freedom worth the trouble possibly living in danger?....it is a grey concept. Mass effect rocks btw

Mages use blood magic because the chantry and templars tell them its what apostates do and they assume its the only way, anders and morrigan are prime examples of good mages

[masseffectexpert94]

vlight wrote...

***Spoilers***
Am i the only one who gave away Anders to the templars in the Awakening? He clearly was a suspicious blood mage and i was right. When i met Anders in DA2 i was like "wtf this guy is doing here? And he is with Justice now?". And when he blasted the Chantry i killed him myself. Those lazy templars cannot get the job done properly themselves.

As for siding with templars, it was very easy choice. Kill every mage that turns into abomination or use blood magic. After all, mages caused the blight, Anders blasted Chantry. And, contrary to real life, we know exactly that there is God(Maker) and he was really mad at those mages.

There were some mages that asked for mercy and sweared that they do not use blood magic. I let them go. I always leave mages alone if they do not look like possible threat and the game leaves me that choice. Meredith was very mad. I wonder if i have killed those innocent mages, would Meredith still have attacked me? I was pretty much loyal to her until she wanted to kill innocent in front of my eyes.

I am not for killing innocent mages and i feel very sorry for them, but the reality in the game is that mages can cause very serious problems and we have to deal with them at any cost.

Anders isn't a blood mage he despices them justice is a spirit anders let in and he is right to blow up the chantry and the grand cleric is a war criminal

[Grimgriz]

lol get mods play a blood mage/ arcane warrior, wear templar armour get the spell netrualizing spell and boom u r both sides templar & mage now reign in ur ****sophrenicy vengence.

[Grimgriz]

^lol i ment skitsophrenic sry cant spell that word to lazy to grab dictonary

[Grimgriz]

I hope in da3 they make were ur dicisions matter And change the game otherwise y ask u questtions.?

[vlight]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He was never a blood mage in Awakening. Not unless you made him one when you made him a Warden. He's a Spirit Healer only.

Maybe, but i remember that he had problems with the tamplars before and he was caught again.

So.... you choose to murder the mages innocent of an apostate's act simply because they're "dangerous mages"? Yea, that makes sense.

Yes. But also with the attempt to save those who do not fall for blood magic. It makes sense to me.

[Grimgriz]

in responce to xilizharas dead adult/ dead kid post , because adult have lived longer and r more guilty of the worlds sin than kids who have no power

[Grimgriz]

all this argument over right and wrong what would humanity do if we found out god sees no evil or good he doesnt share our since of morality that we claim he made nature is his creation its savage murderous and un forgiving

[TEWR]

vlight wrote...




Maybe, but i remember that he had problems with the tamplars before and he was caught again.

There is no maybe. He wasn't a blood mage at all when you met him. His problems with the Templars were because he was an apostate. He had run away from the Circle for a 7th time, and Chantry law -- coupled with Irving's support anytime Anders was apprehended and brought back -- dictates that a Harrowed Mage -- which Anders was -- cannot be killed simply for leaving the Tower.

Being an apostate is not equivalent to being a maleficar, despite that being what the Chantry preaches.

Hell, I highly doubt that Anders killed those Templars. He doesn't display any hostility towards people in Awakening and the Darkspawn seem to have killed the Templars. He even disputes the notion before capitulating out of the rationale of "What's the point... they won't believe me anyway".

But Rylock -- in all of her Templar idiocy -- sees fit to pin those killings on Anders and completely ignores the fact that Vigil's Keep just suffered an attack from the Darkspawn. No, because Anders is alive and the Templars aren't she immediately thinks he killed them.

Anders' only crime was that he was an apostate. A man that wanted to be free.

Yes. But also with the attempt to save those who do not fall for blood magic. It makes sense to me.

No it doesn't. The Right of Annulment means that all mages are to be either executed or made Tranquil. Neither option counts as saving them.

To support Meredith and to support the Templars means that you are supporting killing all mages, because that's what the Right of Annulment means.

The only person that fell to blood magic was Orsino, and that was because Bioware wanted another boss battle so it doesn't even count from a storyline perspective.

No where do you see any other mage use blood magic in that Annulment. The blood mages were almost entirely wiped out in Best Served Cold (another instance of plot stupidity overriding the actual game).

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:49 .

[Deadmac]

When people think of Alistair's role in "Dragon Age II", remember back to when you played the mage warden in "Dragon Age: Origins". You were allowed to leave the tower, so you can make a difference within the world. Also, you didn't have much of a choice. Since you were involved with someone who used blood magic, the only other option would have been death. Wynne is another prime example. After your warden cleared out the tower, Wynne was allowed to journey along side of you. As a result of saving people's lives, both Wynne and Alistair were allowed to roam free.

[sylvanaerie]

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]vlight wrote...





The only person that fell to blood magic was Orsino, and that was because Bioware wanted another boss battle so it doesn't even count from a storyline perspective.

No where do you see any other mage use blood magic in that Annulment. The blood mages were almost entirely wiped out in Best Served Cold (another instance of plot stupidity overriding the actual game).[/quote]




Agreed--The Orsino thing from a story point is stupid as hell.

There is a room in the hall just before you enter the room that's a match for the desire demon's place in Feynriel's nightmare that contains several blood mages and their controlled templar dupes. And the opposite hall is filled with abominations, raised undead and 2 pride demons.

*Edit* well that quote didn't work out well...Don't know how I ended up with my post inside the quotation box

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:36 .

[sylvanaerie]

Deadmac wrote...

When people think of Alistair's role in "Dragon Age II", remember back to when you played the mage warden in "Dragon Age: Origins". You were allowed to leave the tower, so you can make a difference within the world. Also, you didn't have much of a choice. Since you were involved with someone who used blood magic, the only other option would have been death. Wynne is another prime example. After your warden cleared out the tower, Wynne was allowed to journey along side of you. As a result of saving people's lives, both Wynne and Alistair were allowed to roam free.

Alistair wasn't a mage.  Do you mean "Amell"?

[TEWR]

Agreed--The Orsino thing from a story point is stupid as hell.

There is a room in the hall just before you enter the room that's a match for the desire demon's place in Feynriel's nightmare that contains several blood mages and their controlled templar dupes. And the opposite hall is filled with abominations, raised undead and 2 pride demons.

*Edit* well that quote didn't work out well...Don't know how I ended up with my post inside the quotation box

I believe they weren't blood mages. I think they were the demon's thralls. Thin Veil and all that.

And just go back into the edit thing and delete the [ /quote ] at the end along with the "[ quote ] Vlight wrote..." and it should be good.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 29 janvier 2012 - 04:25 .

[esper]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Or if they allowed Merrill's clan to be slaughtered to a man. You don't think the elves had kids too?

Wait, what? Allowed? Merrill's whole clan turns out to be a bunch of berserker maniacs if you tell them the truth. That has nothing to do with Hawke's character.

Regarding the comparison about children, I think one major difference is that we don't see the entirety of the Gallows, far from it. Just the bits around Templar Hall and one of the interior rooms. Much of the battle is invisible.

Yes, allowed as in "The player allowed his/her character to slaughter the entire clan" (knowing that there is a way to avoid it).  Remember it's just a game!  Jiminy Crickets, people!

Also, even though it's said there are children in there who will also be killed, I think whatever power that be that censors that kind of thing would be all over Bioware if it showed the senseless slaughter of little kids.

I am just going to bring this up, because it is a point I see in many Merrill discussion that is entirely moot. Neither Hawke nor Merrill can see the dialog wheel or have the meta knowlegde to avoid it. As for us players, yeah we have the power to avoid it, but I know that I killed them on my first blind playthrough simply because I didn't knew the outcome of picking each choice, that is not being allowed to slaughter the clan that is the clan being arrogant and attempting murder. 

Weren't you the one who said that you sided with templars simply from your Hawkes point of view. I don't see killing the clan as a moral choice. Grace asking to killing Trask is a moral choice, Handing Fenris over to Danerius is a moral choice, siding with the Templars or mages is a moral choice also for Hawke, but for the dalish clan is a question about how good Hawke is to defuse a potential violent confrontation.
Two of my Hawke just so happened to bad at exactly such a thing because the first of them is standing very firm on her principles  and as a result honestly say her opinion, the other happens to have a short temper react with anger if anyone insults her, ironiclly if she had known she could have avoided a fight she would have, but she didn't. 

[HeroxMatt]

OdanUrr wrote...

If I'd had a choice, I would've sided with the Qunari.

Now that you mention it, that's an awesome idea.

[philippe willaume]

HeroxMatt wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

If I'd had a choice, I would've sided with the Qunari.

Now that you mention it, that's an awesome idea.

yes, that would have been my first choice...



About the moral decissions and role-playing.
Yes we can see the Merrill clan episode not being a "moral choice" as siding with the "templar or the mage" or the "elves or the werewolves" in DAO.


But all are meaningful role-playing options.
it does not take Sherlock Holmes to see that the Merrill clan will slightly be miffed by the untimely demise of their keeper So you cam make an educated guess should you decide that your character want to avoid blood-shed. (The choice I made on my first play through)
 
The templar-mage could have been salvaged quite easily, by having the only one of the battle happening and giving the idol to whomever you did not side with.
Having the ending we have now if you tried to stay neutral having decided that both side was just as bad as the other.(which I stupidly assumed was the case after my first play through.)
 
I can understand that given the shallowness of act III, some would see the need of two boss fights but if that was the case give the idol to the faction the char supports hence the respective leader loosing the plot in Homeric fashion.
That would have been the ocation of a nice quest to gets us to suspect that something was not right with the faction/leader we have choosen.
 
Personally, I would have preferred the initial option with a repeating wave mob fight instead of the boss fight of the faction you have chosen.
 
Phil

[esper]

Well of course, if you are picking the middle option which is downright rude to the clan, but they already know she are dead, so telling them the truth about why you have to kill her does not seem like a sure way to fight the whole clan.

I disagree with the mage-templar war. Meridith had to die. Outside of her mage paranoia, Meridith is power hungry and always have been. She has been trying to run the city behind the scenes until the end of act 2 where she doesn't even bother to try and hide it anymore. Hawke's status of champion would always be a threat to her and the annulement would always be the perfect opporunity to have Hawke come 'by an accident' even if you side with her. If in the name of fairness, Orisno, would have to die (Not sure I actually mean that, but I am pro-mage so I would be not so objective here) then they could simply have shown a sceene of the templars overwhelming the mages instead of having the player team mob the floor with templars. Then his freak out would at least have made sense.

[PatrickBateman]

The Anders character more or less makes it impossible to suppor mages in the conflict, he's by far the most annoying character to appear in any game. And even more annoying, if you don't roll a spirit healer specced mage as your Hawk - BW forces you to include him if you want to play it on nightmare. Thanks a lot BW, how about some more options on party members in DA3?

[esper]

You are not forced to have him, you have plenty of potions + plus mythral's favour as a grenade. You can deal with nightmare with only that.

[PatrickBateman]

esper wrote...

You are not forced to have him, you have plenty of potions + plus mythral's favour as a grenade. You can deal with nightmare with only that.

It's possible of course, but it makes it a lot harder to pull off, especially concidering that they gave Anders all of the usefull support spells like haste etc,

with some good will and patience it's possible, but you need to know your DA2 mechanics quite well to pull it off
 

[Rifneno]

 

sylvanaerie wrote...

People argue about the templars slaughtering kids in the Circle should watch what they say if they went along with the werewolves slaughtering elves in the Dalish camp. Or if they allowed Merrill's clan to be slaughtered to a man. You don't think the elves had kids too?

LOL, what? How in the hell can you compare the two acts? One is SELF DEFENSE and one is MURDER. Merrill's clan attacks you because their keeper just committed suicide by demon, something wholly out of your control. The elves are the aggressors and you're only fighting to stay alive. With the Right of Annulment, the templars are the aggressors. You're not comparing apples and oranges, you're comparing apples and chunks of osmium.

But i get curious about certain things in the games, want to see something different, and yes, there are shades of grey throughout the game, it's not all 'good guys/bad guys' black and white. If I thought it was all 'good guys/bad guys' mentality, I'd side templars all the time, because I see little of templars trying to kill my PC, and a hell of a lot of whacked out mages trying to. Let's not even go into the warden's dirty little secret in the Vimmark. Or the sadist who kills Mama Hawke and a bunch of other ladies to make Frankenmom.

Yeah, the KKK uses similar logic. "A black guy killed my cousin, so what I'm doing to these people whose only similarity to him is sharing a bit of DNA is true and right." See, this is exactly what I meant earlier saying that people have morals and they haven't the slightest idea why those morals are right. If you think judging mages based on the bad apples is okay, then congratulations on having the same logic as every racist in history.

Ryzaki wrote...

Huh. I'll just chalk it up to elves not knowing as much as they think they do.

Chalk it up to retconning, because that's what it is. Some very vocal fans complained a lot about the fact it was possible to get a good ending somewhere and the writers, who agree that every single decision ever should be some grand moral dilemma, decided to toss that bit into DA2 so the choice about Connor is more "gray" now.

vlight wrote...

***Spoilers***
Am i the only one who gave away Anders to the templars in the Awakening? He clearly was a suspicious blood mage and i was right.

What a brutal assault on the very concept of logical reasoning... My God...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

There is no Maker... only Zuul.

Nonsense. Zuul wasn't nearly as evil as the Maker. But then, who was really? Sauron was a philanthropist next to the Maker.

Xilizhra wrote...

Pity, that'd bring the point home better. I'm never really sure why showing the senseless slaughter of innocent adults gets received better.

Normally, I hate censorship. But I think this one time I'm gonna have to go with the censors. Because if we continually push the bar (as is human nature), there's only one place left to go after that. And I REALLY couldn't stomach Hawke walking in on Kerras raping somebody. Which is another point... we see the horrors a nutty blood mage can do because it's okay to see FrankenLeandra stumbling around unsteadily on her patchwork frame. We don't see the horrors of templars abusing their power nearly as much. Granted, it's unacceptable on multiple levels to show a rape scene, but there's no reason to keep the dialogue as low key as it is. It's only even heavily implied (aside from one line by Anders in a party banter). If we have to see Quinten's crap to show us why mages suck, there's no reason Hawke couldn't have to be around for a victimized mage having a mental breakdown. Even the good opportunities they did give, like that mage in the gallows who gets reunited with his missing girlfriend only to find out she's been made tranquil for no reason and "now I belong only to Ser Alrik" is a background scene by nameless characters with medicore VA.

Oh, and the Qunari posts... The only proper response to "I'm qunari" is decapitation. There is no such thing as a good qunari. Qunari are to free will what AIDS is to an immune system. There's a reason that the Arishok uses the word "indoctrinate" in reference to new recruits. Hmm, I seem to recall Bioware using that word for something else too... ohhhh, right... The biggest mistake the Chantry made wasn't even what they're doing to the mages, it's that they didn't press their advantage and wipe out the Qun when they had the chance centuries ago. Say what you like about Tevinter, but their ongoing war is the only thing holding the poison in Par Vollen and out of the minds of anyone that enjoys free will.

[Get Magna Carter]

Hawke's father was a mage, Hawke's nice sister is/was a mage, Hawke may be a mage
How can you support persecution of your own family?

[Grimgriz]

i know this is for da2 but i need some quick advice concerning dao the water jug /altar in the werewolf woods. i know ur suposed to fill it , put it on altar ,pray sip , dump then door opens i have done that first run as a human. Know that im playin an elf it isnt giving me the take a sip option instead the altar boils the water is it racist to non dalvish elfs? lol any 1 else ever experience this or know how to fix it?

[Grimgriz]

gee thanx for the help ..................................not