20761 réponses à ce sujet

[Ottemis]

alex90c wrote...

Just to clarify since it seems to be causing confusion, I'm not making a blanket statement of "ALL Femshep fans hold double standards and are hypocrites", I'm simply targeting my posts at those who do, and just questioning the hypocrisy itself - as in why it's okay for fans to make her sexy, but Kotobuyika and their retarded statues aren't.

I edited my last post to add something about your argument for hypocricy, if you want go read it.
If you have comments, let's move to PM yes?

Top again!

By jammietime

Modifié par Ottemis, 14 février 2012 - 01:00 .

[KyreneZA]

MizzNaaa wrote...

While your cat overlord is saying that, mine saw the paw and said "Continue, human, for I am your overlord. That other is an imposter!"

[NM7]

f1r3storm wrote...

No no no, you're doing it wrong!

What an awesome Shepard. She looks so familiar. :innocent:

As for the whole hypersexualisation of femshep thing? There's a big difference between a fan drawing or someone depicting their own Shepard in the way Sorael did and the figurine that was created of Liara. If BioWare want to produce a figure of one of their characters squeezing her breast together and stood in a suggestive pose, that's their choice, but it's hardly representative of her character.

It shouldn't have been done to Liara in my opinion and it certainly shouldn't be done to Jane. If you don't agree that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, but acusing femshep fans of double standards is missing the point if you ask me.

[Mresa]

Does the demo actually have any "major" spoilers? Or is just the parts of the beginning and then some mission?

Kinda stupid thing to ask but since people here have played it already...

[Fraevar]

Demo contains the opening to the game as well as a heavily edited version of a later mission. Not much story context is given outside of the opening sequence itself.

[CrazyRah]

Mresa wrote...

Does the demo actually have any "major" spoilers? Or is just the parts of the beginning and then some mission?

Kinda stupid thing to ask but since people here have played it already...

The demo really don't contain any major spoilers. It's as you guessed, part of the beginning and than a tiny bit of another mission

[MizzNaaa]

Mresa wrote...

Does the demo actually have any "major" spoilers? Or is just the parts of the beginning and then some mission?

Kinda stupid thing to ask but since people here have played it already...

It's a smaller version of the E3 demo

[KyreneZA]

alex90c wrote...

You are not reading with full comprehension, because I suspect you are too quick to take things personally, and thereby missing context and ascribing every single comment (general or persoanl) as a personal attack. Nobody is ignoring you either, chillax!

"not reading with full comprehension"?

My comprehension is fine.

Also, blaspheming, swearing and insulting wording isn't helping your case.

As long as I make my point (which I am), the amount of swearing is completely irrelevant. If I write an essay on how Julius Caesar was an amazing guy and cram it with swears, as long as I actually make my points and back it up with evidence, my essay will still be perfectly valid. And if it's the swearing itself making people ignore what I'm saying, then well they've got a bit of growing up to do.

So you concede that the juxtaposition argument is a false one, as there is a contextual difference between the two examples?

No it is not a false argument at all, I don't see how identifying the difference of profit suddenly makes it immediately entirely invalid, they both involve sexualisation, and the juxtaposition is perfectly acceptable as a means of pointing out the hypocrisy of some Femshep fans.

Ad hominim attacks are okay as long as your point is valid? Insinuations and implications are okay as long as your point is valid? Insulting wording is okay as long as your point is valid?

Yeah, I'm done. You are arguing for argument sake.

[Mresa]

 Thank you very much for the replies. Now I can play it without having to start making "Laalalaa!!!" noices and cover my eyes. 

[syllogi]

alex90c wrote...

Just to clarify since it seems to be causing confusion, I'm not making a blanket statement of "ALL Femshep fans hold double standards and are hypocrites", I'm simply targeting my posts at those who do, and just questioning the hypocrisy itself - as in why it's okay for fans to make her sexy, but Kotobuyika and their retarded statues aren't.

Do you really want to know what others think, or are you just here to make a statement?  Because I don't mind sharing my point of view, if you'll listen.

Personally, I haven't done fan art of FemShep in a "sexualized" context, but if I did, I imagine it would be a romance scene or Shepard being "sexy" for an offscreen LI.  So the setting of scene matters.  I have drawn Ashley Williams in a "sexual" manner, and the idea was always that I was capturing a special, private moment between Ashley and Shepard.  I don't think it's hypocritical for me to imagine Ashley (or FemShep, if I were to ever draw her in a scene like that) in a romance scene, but also want to see her wearing practical armor during combat ingame.  As with everything, context matters.

My own problem with Kotobukiya's Bishoujo line creating the FemShep sculpture, is that this is the very first time we'll be getting the chance for a figure like this, and I'd prefer a figure closer to her ingame model, and not stylized like the rest of the Bishoujo line.  If I had a choice of figures, and one of them was exaggeratedly sexy, while the other portrayed FemShep as she appears in game, I'd be okay with it.  But when the only choice is the Bishoujo statue, I suspect I'll be disappointed.

[alex90c]

As for the whole hypersexualisation of femshep thing? There's a big difference between a fan drawing or someone depicting their own Shepard in the way Sorael did and the figurine that was created of Liara. If BioWare want to produce a figure of one of their characters squeezing her breast together and stood in a suggestive pose, that's their choice, but it's hardly representative of her character.

It shouldn't have been done to Liara in my opinion and it certainly shouldn't be done to Jane. If you don't agree that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, but acusing femshep fans of double standards is missing the point if you ask me.

I agree, the Liara statue was awful, and I wouldn't want the same thing to happen to Femshep,

Is it safe for me to assume then that people disagree with Bioware/Kotobuyika doing it because that makes it more "official"?

Ad hominim attacks are okay as long as your point is valid? Insinuations and implications are okay as long as your point is valid? Insulting wording is okay as long as your point is valid?

If you're making someone look like a fool, might as well do it in style.

Yeah, I'm done. You are arguing for argument sake.

Sure, it's not like I just have an aggressive debating style or anything, definitely not that, lol.

[alex90c]

syllogi wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Just to clarify since it seems to be causing confusion, I'm not making a blanket statement of "ALL Femshep fans hold double standards and are hypocrites", I'm simply targeting my posts at those who do, and just questioning the hypocrisy itself - as in why it's okay for fans to make her sexy, but Kotobuyika and their retarded statues aren't.

Do you really want to know what others think, or are you just here to make a statement?  Because I don't mind sharing my point of view, if you'll listen.

YES. I don't want "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PICTURE, STFU", I want to know why people don't mind sexing up Femshep.

Personally, I haven't done fan art of FemShep in a "sexualized" context, but if I did, I imagine it would be a romance scene or Shepard being "sexy" for an offscreen LI.  So the setting of scene matters.  I have drawn Ashley Williams in a "sexual" manner, and the idea was always that I was capturing a special, private moment between Ashley and Shepard.  I don't think it's hypocritical for me to imagine Ashley (or FemShep, if I were to ever draw her in a scene like that) in a romance scene, but also want to see her wearing practical armor during combat ingame.  As with everything, context matters.

Sure, and that's fine. It's just the ones of Femshep in her N7 armour sporting some killer curves and a huge rack, or any other randomly sexy stuff that I just don't get - and I say that in regards to this issue we're discussing right now, why people don't seem to mind that so much vs. Kotobuyika's abominations. But I guess it's because the latter is more official.

[Captain Crash]

Ok Im going to try one last time, because I feel your probably just not grasping the issue

alex90c wrote...

Just to clarify since it seems to be causing confusion, I'm not making a blanket statement of "ALL Femshep fans hold double standards and are hypocrites", I'm simply targeting my posts at those who do

First off this quote sums up your perspective because it makes no sense. You are indeed lumping all femshep fans into holding double standards because everyone at some point will like a sexy image of her or be intrigued by it.  Its a suprising thing called human nature. 

Just because they like that fanart doesnt mean they want that image to all of a sudden represent femshep.  All it is a change and take different on her.   Humans are curious creatures by nature and like different representations. Now I get what your saying where by the Statue will reflect a alternate image as well but its different in the fact that its officially endorsed and Bioware are saying its fine to have this image.  Thats when the boundaries change. Liking some intriging fanart doesnt mean you want her whole image to completly shift and change.   Thats what your failing to comprehend.  

If you argue this or still dont get it then you never will.  There is no hypocracy because the scenarios are different.   Liking fanart representations to allowing Bioware to officially mass produce an image that doesnt truely represent what she stands for is a totally different matter.  Shes a soldier and liking a fan art representation is different to a company allowing her entire image to be potentially undermined.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 14 février 2012 - 01:20 .

[Ottemis]

alex90c wrote...
YES. I don't want "IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PICTURE, STFU", I want to know why people don't mind sexing up Femshep.

You are damaging my calm.

Modifié par Ottemis, 14 février 2012 - 01:25 .

[Sinapus]

Kyrene wrote...

alex90c wrote...
No it is not a false argument at all, I don't see how identifying the difference of profit suddenly makes it immediately entirely invalid, they both involve sexualisation, and the juxtaposition is perfectly acceptable as a means of pointing out the hypocrisy of some Femshep fans.

Ad hominim attacks are okay as long as your point is valid? Insinuations and implications are okay as long as your point is valid? Insulting wording is okay as long as your point is valid?

Yeah, I'm done. You are arguing for argument sake.

Pretty much. The "I decide what your motives are, you don't match what I think it is so you're a HYPOCRITE" method of argument.

I tend to treat it with the respect it deserves, as opposed to the respect the person using said method desires.

[f1r3storm]

MizzNaaa wrote...

.

[Wynne]

[quote]meonlyred wrote...

I'm glad you feel welcome!
The reason some of us seem closer than others is because we are. Some of us are also on Femshep.com and talk a lot on the chat there. Some of us go as far as have each other's phone numbers or have meet in real life. Its bizarrely awesome how Femshep and Mass Effect has brought people together like this.[/quote]I know how that feels! I went to London for the DAO pre-release competition and met a bunch of awesome people there, among them Cat Lance, Isaantia, n2nw, and Tamyn, not to mention our own evil Chris and some of his buddies. It was an unforgettable experience. I mean, cool to see London, sure, but it was the conversations that I remember the most--getting together in the same place with a whole bunch of awesome people who cherish the same hobby and the same great game series. 

I like talking on here, but being in person with people you've met online... it's so incredibly awesome. Even if you weren't sure about them before, seeing them and talking with them makes you love them. I really wish I could do that kind of thing more. It reminds you there are real, vibrant, wonderful people behind those avatars and names.

[quote]raziel1980 wrote...


[/quote]She looks particularly awesome in this one.  

[quote]Yumi50 wrote...


[/quote] I LOVE her face! She is probably the most distinctive blonde FemShep I've seen besides Kyrie. Really distinctive features, and that hairstyle is perfect for her. 
[quote]Akari Tenshi wrote...

[quote]Obvakhi wrote...

Can someone give me a link of the ME3 demo with the new default FemShep? I'm sick of seeing everybody's ugly ass custom Shepard.[/quote]

Since you asked so politely, here you go. [/quote]Ha! I love you for that! 

[quote]AwakenxBenihime wrote...

seeing all your wonderful custom femsheps is making me so anxious for tomorrow!

Beautiful femsheps ladies! (I'm assuming most of you are ladies.. lol)[/quote]I would be one of the females.  

[quote]HolyAvenger wrote...

I must confess I have to have a big, badass scar in my ME1 playthroughs. Makes all my Shepards look more like scary soldier types you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley. Especially the FemSheps. [/quote] Agreed! I love the scars in ME1. I have a soft spot for the eyebrow scar, I think it looks the coolest and I've used it several times before, but the cheek scar was fun, too.



I skipped the scars for one playthrough after I'd played ME2 and saw that they disappeared, and I ended up missing them terribly. I wish ME2 had ported your scars. They were cool.

[quote]Kyrene wrote...

And I for one always welcome your occassional visits, and the fact that you take time to collectively respond to people when you do.
...
Lastly, if you feel like an outsider, its only your own fault. Grow a quad, elbow a few regulars aside, and get right in the middle of this "inner circle" on a constant, but polite basis. You'll soon not be on the outside anymore.[/quote]Thank you! And I like your spirit, very much so.  Life doesn't hand you anything, and that includes the internet. "Grow a quad and earn your place"--a solid motto. 

[quote]Yumi50 wrote...

 I noticed 2 more differences between Femshep and Mshep animation, apart from Anderson grabbing chest/collar.
When Anderson mentioned 'soft around the edges' Femshep uses BOTH her hands touching her stomach, while Mshep uses only left hand. [/quote]Hmm!  Those are odd differences... interesting. I guess my FemShep/ManShep playthroughs really will feel different this time! 

[quote]Sorael.A wrote...


I said I would post it last night but it would have been a botched job

[/quote]
[quote]alex90c wrote...

Not really. The sole difference is the one you pointed out: profit. The level of sexualisation is irrelevant, the crux of my argument is that Kotokuyika (quite rightfully) get chastised for their sexualisation, and when it turns out they're making a Femshep statue people are (rightfully again) worried they'll do the same, despite the fact that some of these very people sexualise Femshep themselves. And for some reason, all the fans in this thread have decided to make their minds completely impervious to this fact.[/quote]No cleavage, no puffed-up chest, no puckered lips ready for a kiss, no suggestively parted thighs... she's just standing there, arms crossed, observing her artist warmly (who is probably her lover). 

It's not the clothing you have to look at, it's the stance, the body language, and the facial expression. Her clothing actually covers more than your average one-piece bathing suit, though. All that's exposed are her limbs. She looks relaxed, curious, friendly... 

If it were really hypersexualization, she'd be touching herself, licking something, or she would have her chest squashed together to form a nice cleavage line--something of that sort. I actually think this picture is sexier precisely because nothing like that is happening. 

Hell, I'm straight, but she kinda makes me wish I weren't. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] C'mon, the comment about the juxtaposition was funny because there is truth to it, but that doesn't mean that this is some kind of degradation of FemShep, anymore than the shirtless scene with Kaidan in ME1 was degrading to him. If he'd been grinding against a stripper pole in fetishy painted-on latex that emphasized his nipples and the shape of his--er, speedo area, THAT would be degrading. 

I like FemShep best in full clothing, but I don't mind this artwork because I get the feeling the artist had more in mind than OMGSEXYBOOBIES4U! when it was drawn, it's not conveniently and visibly cold or rainy outside, and I am just so tired of the myth that super-skinny models are the only kind of beautiful. This FemShep has muscle on her. I can't help but love that.  

People love to admire each other's physical forms. That will never cease to be the case. I think, personally, that the best that can be asked is that we're given the opportunity to admire both genders rather than just one, and that both sides are treated with equal respect--not debased or reduced to objects, but treated as people or at least characters. 

In short, the difference between sexualized and sexy is whether or not the subject is treated with observable respect; shown in situations and in attire that project that respect and the subject's self-respect--or whether they're reduced to an impersonal object with the emphasis on T&A or C&A, possibly with a side of excessive, sensualized youth and innocence. Does that make a little more sense? I think that's what others were trying to say; everybody just got a little too frustrated with each other to express themselves optimally. 

Modifié par Wynne, 14 février 2012 - 02:35 .

[Fraevar]

@Wynne: Thank you for taking the time to write that post. I totally want to *glomp* you now

[ReallyRue]

Wynne wrote...

Sorael.A wrote...
I said I would post it last night but it would have been a botched job

alex90c wrote...

Not really. The sole difference is the one you pointed out: profit. The level of sexualisation is irrelevant, the crux of my argument is that Kotokuyika (quite rightfully) get chastised for their sexualisation, and when it turns out they're making a Femshep statue people are (rightfully again) worried they'll do the same, despite the fact that some of these very people sexualise Femshep themselves. And for some reason, all the fans in this thread have decided to make their minds completely impervious to this fact.

No cleavage, no puffed-up chest, no puckered lips ready for a kiss, no suggestively parted thighs... she's just standing there, arms crossed, observing her artist warmly (who is probably her lover). 

It's not the clothing you have to look at, it's the stance, the body language, and the facial expression. Her clothing actually covers more than your average one-piece bathing suit, though. All that's exposed are her limbs. She looks relaxed, curious, friendly... 

If it were really hypersexualization, she'd be touching herself, licking something, or she would have her chest squashed together to form a nice cleavage line--something of that sort. I actually think this picture is sexier precisely because nothing like that is happening. 

Hell, I'm straight, but she kinda makes me wish I weren't. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie] C'mon, the comment about the juxtaposition was funny because there is truth to it, but that doesn't mean that this is some kind of degradation of FemShep, anymore than the shirtless scene with Kaidan in ME1 was degrading to him. If he'd been grinding against a stripper pole in fetishy painted-on latex that emphasized his nipples and the shape of his--er, speedo area, THAT would be degrading. 

I like FemShep best in full clothing, but I don't mind this artwork because I get the feeling the artist had more in mind than OMGSEXYBOOBIES4U! when it was drawn, it's not conveniently and visibly cold or rainy outside, and I am just so tired of the myth that super-skinny models are the only kind of beautiful. This FemShep has muscle on her. I can't help but love that.  

People love to admire each other's physical forms. That will never cease to be the case. I think, personally, that the best that can be asked is that we're given the opportunity to admire both genders rather than just one, and that both sides are treated with equal respect--not debased or reduced to objects, but treated as people or at least characters. 

In short, the difference between sexualized and sexy is whether or not the subject is treated with observable respect; shown in situations and in attire that project that respect and the subject's self-respect--or whether they're reduced to an impersonal object with the emphasis on T&A or C&A, possibly with a side of excessive, sensualized youth and innocence. Does that make a little more sense? I think that's what others were trying to say; everybody just got a little too frustrated with each other to express themselves optimally. 

I agree. I actually think the bared skin on this picture actually works really well, because it emphasises her muscular and athletic physique. If it were over-sexualised, she'd have her breasts bursting out of top (which would probably be just a bra), and would be angled to give the viewer an eye-full. It just looks like a picture of femShep on a casual day. I mean, I dislike over-sexualisation as much as the next person, but some people seem to see everything in black and white. People can be varied, and like someone else mentioned, behave differently in different situations. Just because Ashley is a practical 'tomboy', for instance, it doesn't mean she can't be sexy when she's with Shep in a romance. It doesn't mean her whole character is being oversexualised.

[GuitarShredUK]

Megan Shepard & Kaidan

http://imageshack.us.../meganshep.jpg/

Modifié par GuitarShredUK, 14 février 2012 - 03:33 .

[KyreneZA]

Wynne wrote...

tl;dr sane, polite, lucid and well written post

Post reported.

Stop trolling with your rational behaviour! Pariah! Stranger!

Out! OUT!

Wynne wrote...

Thank you! And I like your spirit, very much so.  Life doesn't hand you anything, and that includes the internet. "Grow a quad and earn your place"--a solid motto.

You should see me when I up my meds. People have wanted to build me shrines in the past. Which reminds me... Oh, Ottemis!

*scampers off like a hypersexualized male Shepard in search of someone riding a menstrual cycle*

[Captain Crash]

 


Edit:

Actually scratch that to be honest, this isnt at all that bad.  Legs are long, but similar with Liara.  Just hope her booty doesnt stick out

Modifié par Captain Crash, 14 février 2012 - 03:32 .

[Yumi50]

Captain Crash wrote...

 



Oh Dear

I'M TOTALLY GONNA BUY IT!! :wub::wub:

[KyreneZA]

[quote]GuitarShredUK wrote...

Megan Shepard & Kaidan




Fixed that for ya.