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[Timberley]

Morose Cara is morose...



So I finally finished the game (damn Banshees in London causing me issues), and despite the warnings that Dani et al gave me, it was still terrible.  What a rubbish way to end the trilogy...  Clearly these guys haven't read their Campbell!  Or seen many epic trilogies.

Tim

P.S.  As a way of working through the ending until Bioware provide a sensible answer, I am now in full on modding and fanfic mode.  So, if anyone can link me to tutorials, etc for capturing textures and modding them in (I want to change several colourations for my squadmates armour), oh and adding squaddie armour to my list of selectables for Shep, then please do!

Modifié par Timberley, 19 mars 2012 - 05:13 .

[Demonhoopa]

SaturnRing wrote...

Demonhoopa wrote...

R.I.P.
Rhynne Shepard







You will be missed.

You braking my heart. I've grown really fond of her...

 

I'm sorry Saturn. I must admit it hurt my heart a little to watch, well as much as something that's not real can anyway. Yeah "control" didn't work out too well for my girl. It's too bad because she quickly became my favorite but hey, it's like she said, she knew she was not going to make it.

Next up: Fiona

Lets see if she can fare better.




After getting dismissed, Fiona went out and "got her hair did". 

Modifié par Demonhoopa, 19 mars 2012 - 05:13 .

[SaturnRing]

Demonhoopa wrote...

R.I.P.
Rynne Shepard







You will be missed.

I choose to remember her like that^

Modifié par SaturnRing, 19 mars 2012 - 05:11 .

[Ottemis]

Tup3xi wrote...
Have you though whether or not its logic was flawed from the beginning? I'm not buying it that a machine with broken logic is supposedly right, no matter how many years it has been there observing. It's broken, twisted, evil and flawed machine.

That twisted machine itself is causing endless repetition. There's no way it would know what would actually happen in the future without this mass murdering. What the hell does it know anyway... As far as I know the only thing it has been observing is the countless mass murdering cycles (every time).

In my opinion this whole ending conversation just proves how broken it really is.

You assume it's a machine because of the form it's presented in? I don't. Not to say it isn't, but it might not be.

As said, you trust it or you don't. That's your first choice, why you choose to trust it or not is up to you.
After that comes the colourchoice, motivated by your first decission. But If you don't trust him, then you can logically conclude everything he says is a lie (because it could be). And ALL you have to go on to pick is colours and past personal experience, your best guess.

An ending is arguably better for provoking thought.
This would have worked better though, if people weren't so unhappy with the outcomes. Then again, if they weren't shocked, it wouldn't be as thought-provoking.

If they do add more endings, I'm honestly happy for them not being there from the get-go. What this has done, atleast for me, is force one to think about things in ways you otherwise wouldn't have.

Modifié par Ottemis, 19 mars 2012 - 05:17 .

[SyphonFilterOZ9]

Here are the first pics of my femshep, Melissa in ME3. It took me a while because her face/headmorph would not carry over from ME2. So I had to start from scratch. I am not as happy with her as I was in ME2 but for now, she'll do.  I still think she's a pretty good lookin' Shep.


One shot from ME2



All of these are from ME3

Modifié par SyphonFilterOZ9, 19 mars 2012 - 05:23 .

[Tup3x]

Ottemis wrote...

Tup3xi wrote...
Have you though whether or not its logic was flawed from the beginning? I'm not buying it that a machine with broken logic is supposedly right, no matter how many years it has been there observing. It's broken, twisted, evil and flawed machine.

That twisted machine itself is causing endless repetition. There's no way it would know what would actually happen in the future without this mass murdering. What the hell does it know anyway... As far as I know the only thing it has been observing is the countless mass murdering cycles (every time).

In my opinion this whole ending conversation just proves how broken it really is.

You assume it's a machine because of the form it's presented in? I don't. Not to say it isn't, but it might not be.

As said, you trust it or you don't. That's your first choice, why you choose to trust it or not is up to you.
After that comes the colourchoice, motivated by your first decission. But If you don't trust him, then you can logically conclude everything he says is a lie (because it could be). And ALL you have to go on to pick is colours and past personal experience, your best guess.

If it's not a machine then, I don't know, it's a weird spectral creature who has serious mental issues?

About the choices... I find it odd that shooting a thing like that would kill every Reaper (let alone jumping in the beam would somehow rewrite everything in the galaxy; control thing is almost acceptable considering that it is basically the Reaper control centre).

Meh... The more I think about it the more angry I get.

[Gilsa]

Flies_by_Handles wrote...
Apologies to the Wrex fans but I much prefer the pairing of James and Garrus. My ultimate "bro" squad.

I know, right?! I really liked James' side story of thinking about joining N7 and being shaped by Shepard. Makes me want to take him along more for on-the-job training and I absolutely dig his inner rebel. I shaped my Shepard to be like that -- attitude problem and bleached hair. He's got a mohawk and tattoos and the same attitude. I definitely groove with him in the party. (Same reason why I used Jack a lot in ME2.) Of course, it's harder to bring Garrus along once Kaidan is in the party. Even though I prefer Garrus as my right hand man, I also want to hear everything Kaidan has to say on the missions because I know if I play on other alts, he'd be sidelined on the ship to give other crew members a chance. It's easier for me to leave Liara on the ship because she's doing important Shadow Broker stuff, right? =p

[SaturnRing]

Demonhoopa wrote...






Next up: Fiona





[b]After getting dismissed, Fiona went out and "got her hair did". 

Nice transition.

[SaturnRing]

SyphonFilterOZ9 wrote...

Here are the first pics of my femshep, Melissa in ME3. It took me a while because her face/headmorph would not carry over from ME2. So I had to start from scratch. I am not as happy with her as I was in ME2 but for now, she'll do.  I still think she's a pretty good lookin' Shep.

i think she's beautiful.

[Ottemis]

He gives you a choice, for two out of three he needs your direct influence, because the conclusion adds a PART of Shepard in the equation. Assuming he has the power to make all three happen, because he obviously does, the only thing he needs from you, is you.

Your choice, your essence. Your being.

Modifié par Ottemis, 19 mars 2012 - 05:21 .

[Demonhoopa]

SaturnRing wrote...

Demonhoopa wrote...






Next up: Fiona





[b]After getting dismissed, Fiona went out and "got her hair did". 

Nice transition.

Thanks Saturn. With the exception of Rhynne and Hope (my half Japanese former canon), most of my sheps don't come out with the character (is that the right word?) that yours, Tup's and some other people on this thread do. Most of mine come out too pretty and barbie doll-ish. This is probably rooted in my affliction of being a straight male.

I'm getting help and seeking treatment.

Modifié par Demonhoopa, 19 mars 2012 - 05:26 .

[SaturnRing]

Gilsa wrote...

Flies_by_Handles wrote...
Apologies to the Wrex fans but I much prefer the pairing of James and Garrus. My ultimate "bro" squad.

I know, right?! I really liked James' side story of thinking about joining N7 and being shaped by Shepard. Makes me want to take him along more for on-the-job training and I absolutely dig his inner rebel. I shaped my Shepard to be like that -- attitude problem and bleached hair. He's got a mohawk and tattoos and the same attitude. I definitely groove with him in the party. (Same reason why I used Jack a lot in ME2.) Of course, it's harder to bring Garrus along once Kaidan is in the party. Even though I prefer Garrus as my right hand man, I also want to hear everything Kaidan has to say on the missions because I know if I play on other alts, he'd be sidelined on the ship to give other crew members a chance. It's easier for me to leave Liara on the ship because she's doing important Shadow Broker stuff, right? =p

Same for me. They're the dereaperization squad.
I pretty much love all my squadmates equally. But in my mind they all have their role. When it comes to field action they're the perfect choice for me.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 19 mars 2012 - 07:02 .

[ADLegend21]

Actually when I think about it the star child wants to prevent synthetics from compeltely obliterating organics. Like the Geth did during the Mourning they didn't stop when the Quarians reached a certain population they fought until the quarians pulled their survivors away. Mercy is an emotion and synthetics don't have those unless they're super advanced. The Reapers harvest advanced civilizations and leave primitive one's like humans, Krogans, asari, turians, etc when the protheans were were the dominant species(s) they don't take everyone and leave the galaxy empty. It's fear is that synthetics will wipe everything out so they only wipe out those who can create synthetic life and leave species to grow until they can do the same and repeat. It actually makes sense....>.>

[SaturnRing]

Demonhoopa wrote...

Thanks Saturn. With the exception of Rhynne and Hope (my half Japanese former canon), most of my sheps don't come out with the character (is that the right word) that yours, Tup's and some other people on this thread do. Most of mine come out too pretty and barbie doll-ish. This is probably rooted in my affliction of being a straight male.

I'm getting help and seeking treatment.

I think it's just subjective. She's pretty; can't hold that agaisnt her. And she knows how to shoot. what's not to like!

[Jayce]

Ottemis wrote...

He gives you a choice, for two out of three he needs your direct influence, because the conclusion adds a PART of Shepard in the equation. Assuming he has the power to make all three happen, because he obviously does, the only thing he needs from you, is you.

Your choice, your essence. Your being.

And that is the fatal flaw of the games end. There is no none of the above even though the catalyst's own logic demands that there should be one.

Blue: Become a Reaper. Ultimately, repeat the cycle.

Green:  Replace the obsolete Reapers with a new kind of Reaper: us. 

Red.: Blow everything up and see where the chips fall. 

Other: Tell the little git to stop interfering with evolution and sod off.

This is a perfectly fair outcome to the game in a philosophical sense. But it achieves this at the expense of any and all narrative resolution and by erasing Shepard's primary motiviation: Stopping the cycle. 

[Tup3x]

SaturnRing wrote...

Demonhoopa wrote...

Thanks Saturn. With the exception of Rhynne and Hope (my half Japanese former canon), most of my sheps don't come out with the character (is that the right word) that yours, Tup's and some other people on this thread do. Most of mine come out too pretty and barbie doll-ish. This is probably rooted in my affliction of being a straight male.

I'm getting help and seeking treatment.

I think it's just subjective. She's pretty; can't hold that agaisnt her. And she knows how to shoot. what's not to like!

This.

[sagefic]

Here's why I don't trust StarChild:

I was driving to the store when I remembered what he says:

"I know you've thought about destroying us...." /looks meaningfully to the red hub

Wait...run that line by me again, kid. destroying... US? As in...wait... For one, brief moment, the kid stops acting like a neutral 3rd party, someone who can see what's going on from this god's-eye point of view, and identifies with the reapers. Destroying us - as in, the kid is somehow one of them. Now, I don't know if the Citadel is some kind of reaper that the crucible activates, if the kid is a reaper projection, hallucination, etc. And it *could* just be a slip on the writer's part.

But to me, that line is jarring. it's that 'well, you don't REALLY' want to do what silly old anderson wanted, do you?

further, notice that no one ever sees this kid but shepard. you're talking to the kid and anderson doesn't see him in the vent. no one helps the kid onto the escape shuttle. and the way he looks at you is so... yeah, everything about that kid seems to play on shepard's guilt - the dreams, etc. the fact that when you embrace the child in the dream, he grins all eerie and he AND shepard go up in flames suggests to me that the groundwork is being laid for shepard to react emotionally to this kid. we're not really meant to pick apart his words or analyze them. we're meant to think, oh, right, this is where i am noble and save us all. we're not meant to question what is going on here.

plus, it's interesting that the audio channel for the kid appears to be the child's voice with male and female shepard's voices laid over it. it's shepard's own mind echoing this. and all this surreal stuff going on, this child assuring me that i alone can control the reapers, i alone can kill myself to save us all... i just don't buy it. shep's known anderson for years. i've known myself for years. i've known that war doesn't just stop by fusing organic and synthetic DNA - fusing DNA like that gave us husks, not good stuff.

so pitch everything shep knows against a ghostly kid? yeah. i just don't buy it.

granted, if destroy is the only way out, then i think that's cool writing, but it also means the bioware writers really pulled a fast one on us, making only one way out of a situation, where usually there are several. but then again, leading in, you HAVE to take the renegade interrupts and shoot TIM, or you die. this might just be a renegade interrupt in the extreme.

[raziel1980]

Tup3xi wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...

Demonhoopa wrote...

Thanks Saturn. With the exception of Rhynne and Hope (my half Japanese former canon), most of my sheps don't come out with the character (is that the right word) that yours, Tup's and some other people on this thread do. Most of mine come out too pretty and barbie doll-ish. This is probably rooted in my affliction of being a straight male.

I'm getting help and seeking treatment.

I think it's just subjective. She's pretty; can't hold that agaisnt her. And she knows how to shoot. what's not to like!

This.

Seconded as well...

Well.. I guess will post a couple of Alicia Shepard...though I still have more pics of her to upload.

[Ottemis]

@Jayce F : At the expense? I don't follow, that is exactly what you're doing. Our interpretations of the three options differ. Your arguments are interesting btw, I just don't quite agree with your conclusions.

Asking what the point of it all is, is valid enough but then that's a kind of fatalism that can be expanded towards asking what the point of life is altogether. That line of thinking, while valid enough, also completely breaks the significance of anything. Not just this, specifically.

Modifié par Ottemis, 19 mars 2012 - 05:41 .

[Jayce]

Ottemis wrote...

@Jayce F : At the expense? I don't follow, that is exactly what you're doing. Our interpretations of the three options differ. Your arguments are interesting btw, I just don't quite agree with your conclusions.

Asking what the point of it all is, is valid enough but then that's a kind of fatalism that can be expanded towards asking what the point of life is altogether. That line of thinking, while valid enough, also completely breaks the significance of anything. Not just this, specifically.

Likewise, you've made some great points, Ottemis.

But to address your reply. Ultimately the Catalyst is deciding the galaxy's fate for it. If that is not fatalistic, I don't what is...

Where something is nihilistic for the individual or civlization due to sheer progression of time (see: Ozymandias) this doesn't hold true to life.

The Catalyst is not merely answering "42". He's deleting the data.

[Ottemis]

While they certainly succeeded, I agree with you Flies_by_Handles.
I've said so before as well, while on the one hand, I can be at peace with the ending as is.
On the other hand, I
1. want a happy ending that does not force my Shepard into choices she'd never make ifnot to prioritize herself above what she knows to be better (not to say best) for the galaxy as a whole and
2. Get more information on the benefits of war-assets directly in game and see what happens in the aftermath of the choice to those left standing.

[Ottemis]

Jayce F wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

@Jayce F : At the expense? I don't follow, that is exactly what you're doing. Our interpretations of the three options differ. Your arguments are interesting btw, I just don't quite agree with your conclusions.

Asking what the point of it all is, is valid enough but then that's a kind of fatalism that can be expanded towards asking what the point of life is altogether. That line of thinking, while valid enough, also completely breaks the significance of anything. Not just this, specifically.

Likewise, you've made some great points, Ottemis.

But to address your reply. Ultimately the Catalyst is deciding the galaxy's fate for it. If that is not fatalistic, I don't what is...

Where something is nihilistic for the individual or civlization due to sheer progression of time (see: Ozymandias) this doesn't hold true to life.

The Catalyst is not merely answering "42". He's deleting the data.

Heh, you know what I've always said (no offence to believers): If there is a God, he's a sadistic sob.
Creating free will and allowing evolution but then restricting that growth when it doesn't follow your design, yeah.. not the best thing ever. Still, free will is there to decide right from wrong, if we're consistently doing something wrong, is the reprocussion right? I would say so, that's exactly how WE judge ourselves/eachother. We also allow for the option of redemption, of proving the rule wrong through exeption. So we now get to rewrite the rule.

But then maybe our creation, as we are, is the gift in the end as well. Because our actions obviously do matter towards Starchild's decissions as to a course of action. First in creation of the Reapers and second in letting us take part in deciding the new order of things.

I get you're in a way rebelling against the rule being there in the first place.
But wether or not you think StarChild is a sadistic sob, we can't do anything about that.

ps: bar campaigning for them adding an option where you can give starchild the finger heh.

Modifié par Ottemis, 19 mars 2012 - 06:09 .

[Gilsa]

Flies_by_Handles wrote...

   I like to string James along during the first half of the game. Doing this makes it easier for me to accept the mentor role that Devi takes on and fits perfectly with the scene where James asks for Devi's advice regarding the N7 program.  Also, I'm playing through the game on Insanity and although Devi and James are both part of the soldier class, I never really felt myself at a disadvantage for his lack of "magic" abilities. That man is a tank.

He and I have pretty much the same abilties and I feel the same way about not being hindered by the lack of magic abilities. I LOVE his grenades. It kills me that his grenades are instant and hit the bullseye every time, but if I lob my own grenades, there's a delay because of the throwing animation and it doesn't always land where I think it's gonna (since the mobs don't stand there and wait for me heh). His grenades are so useful for scenarios where a bunch of Cerberus soldiers are about to drop down from their shuttle and he can take them down all at once before they jump.

Edit: I'm listening to the starkid and ending debate, btw. I don't have anything to add to the conversation, but I am reading everyone's input. Indoctrination theory takes the sting out of the abrupt ending to me, but I have no idea which side of the argument is correct. It's kind of like debating the merits of doing Morrigan's dark ritual in Dragon Age. Two games later, we still don't have any closure on whether it was a mistake or strategic move. Since this is the final game for Shepard, at least Bioware will talk about their ending at some point. Right? =p

Modifié par Gilsa, 19 mars 2012 - 06:15 .