20761 réponses à ce sujet

[Hadeedak]

Esperanza went with control. I went in knowing enough about the endings to know 2 saved the geth, but killed Shepard. My gut reaction with synthesis was "KILL IT WITH FIRE" (a feeling I stand by). I just couldn't count Legion's sacrifice out, and this particular Shepard always had a shade of a deathwish and a tendency to get punchdrunk. I didn't realize it when I first made her, but I was always setting her up for a heroic sacrifice.

No krogan babies with Garrus for her. (Also, on a sidenote, it wouldn't have made a LICK of sense if she lived through destroy, which she would have. The girl's big story in 2 was doing everything to upgrade herself, cranking up her amp, training, and taking every implant/synthetic option she could to be the best vanguard punching machine possible. Destroy would have exploded her skin, bones and muscle if it hit every artificial bit. And while she's tough.... no. Just no.

So I went with control. Citadel's intact. Esperanza Shepard may be queen of the reapers. And I regret nothing.... Except the utter goddamn lack of clarity regarding what the endings meant and the fact that she apparently cared more about Ashley dying years ago than one of her best friends taking a sword in the gut keeping her safe. Damnit, Shep.

....Still a good game, though.

[Cyansomnia]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I feel pathetic that I'm so morose over a freaking game. Very few events even in real life have affected me this badly. I'm still in what I can only describe as shock, approximately two weeks later. Numb, as if I'm afraid to let myself feel what I'm afraid I'd have to feel if I engaged emotionally. It has affected every other area in my life, from work to leisure... everything feels as if it's wrapped in gauze.

If I didn't have this thread, the femShep community, to see that others are feeling the exact same way, I would... I don't know what I would. Thank you, Aislinn, sagequeen, Chignon, and all the rest.

It's not pathetic.  When so many people feel the same way, it means that we all got involved in something that meant a great deal to us.  This is a story that should have provided closure and a better ending.  It definitely deserved that much.  It's thoughtless and insensitive to create something so amazing, then end it so terribly.  No emotional release and total disregard of your audience's feelings is just flat-out bad storytelling.

Not to mention this weirdo ending is so full of inconsistencies, circular logic and stuff that almost completely ignores established lore in the game... it makes the mind boggle.

I'm still not sure if this is something I can recover from, but I'm willing to wait and see what happens.  It's possible my Shepard may get what she truly deserves.  I'm willing to fight for that tooth and nail.

[mellifera]

I've been playing ME1 to get the bitter taste of ME3 out of my mouth but... I can't deny that some of my enthusiasm has been dulled knowing the reasoning behind everything. Sovereign is so much less intimidating now, knowing that all that made him a terrifying villain was pretty much smoke and mirrors. As much as I love the game, there's definitely a lot of "What's the point?" I hate that the endings, the last 10 minutes of the last game have retroactively dirtied the rest. It should be about the journey, not the destination, blah blah blah. But I can't help it either.

Some caps:

"I hate to tell you this, but you'll be killed off on Twitter in a few years."


Garrus is in most of my screencaps, as usual.

Modifié par yukidama, 30 mars 2012 - 07:38 .

[RainyDayLover]

Regardless of whether you believe in the Starchild or not, it is quite evident your Shepard believes him. Bioware wanted it this way, so unless they change the endings or outright state that the indoctrination theory is true (meaning that they shipped out an incomplete game without an ending..), I'm afraid there's nothing that could be done...

So taking the endings at face-value, I found Control to be the best option, especially if you resolved the Quarian/Geth conflict peacefully (or sided with the Geth). With Control, Shepard ARE the Reapers so you can shape the galaxy however you wish, and you can start by rebuilding the Mass Relays.

[CrazyRah]

I see the endings are the topic and related to everyones Shep. Here goes my thoughts an early friday morning.

I got unlimited amounts of problems with the endings, the plotholes that never ends.. the fact that the endings look pretty much the same and that when we're at the end of a trilogy i get railroaded into believing a bloody "space-kid" whose logic made me want to cry and then i get the options to pick my favorite color..

First and foremost right now my Shep either die with Anderson because she sure as hell would NEVER agree with that bloody AI or i headcanon the crap out of the endings. Either way they don't exist (Whoever programmed the catalyst screwed up badly) It's just so OOC for her to just nod and say alright. Probably the most OOC moment in the entire trilogy and it happens at the end of it! This annoys me to no end.

Also the endings themself suck, Control? I agree that synthetics should wipe out organics so that the synthetics that organics create won't do that? Ehh.. no
Synthesis is just pure BS for me. Strength through diversity is what saved the galaxy from the Reapers. Synthesis makes us closer to the synthetics.. i rather be myself thank you very much and i rather die as the flawed organic that i am then become something else on someone elses terms.
That leaves destroy as the only option left for me and i can go with it. It's not an easy choice and that i'm good with. That EDI dies together with the Geth sucks but right now the endings are so unclear and offer so little closure that the star-kid might just talk out of his ass to convince me that control or synthesis is awesome.

So after 3 games i get a few seconds long clip of my Shep gasping for breath? Well geez thanks Bioware for that closure >.< Also don't get me started on the stargazer scene..



@Syrdeth Thanks! If there're two words i would use to describe Sarah it would probably be fierce and determined ^^

Modifié par CrazyRah, 30 mars 2012 - 08:13 .

[Ottemis]

Zandilar wrote...

Ottemis wrote...
Hmm synthesis is the way to go for me.

I've considered the following, control being a status quo, you only take the reapers out of the equation, plus Shepard. Risk of the impending war/organic annihilation still existing, but you give it a chance to prove the opposite.

Then there's destroy, where you take the reapers out, but also the Geth and EDI, which for all my Sheps is just not an option, however much I want to see them (my sheps) live, that would be going against what they stoold for since the beginning and the choices they made in regards to synthetic life throughout the game. Risk of the impending war/organic annihilation still existing, but you give it a chance to prove the opposite.

Then there's synthesis, believing the impending war threat exists assuming StarChild is what he claims to be, it's the only one that suggestedly assures to break the cycle in therms of war.

To me the main questions were simple, I asked myself:
1. Do I believe StarChild? Yes.
2. Do I believe war is inevitable, do I believe our annihilation in extension is inevitable? Yes.
3. Do I recognise the Geth and EDI as fullfletched "life"forms? Yes.
4. If not synthetic life, but say Turian life, would I merge to save them (and everyone in effect)? Yes.

Outcome Synthesis every time, I can't get around it.

I have a couple of problems with your logic.

1) Destroy doesn't, actually, destroy all synthetics. How do I know this? If you play it just right, Shepard lives at the end. If synthetics were all killed, Shep would most likely have died right along with them given she's part synthetic herself and probably can't exist without her synthetic parts.

The other thing... Geth are not their platforms, but the programs that run on them - AIs, just like EDI. I suppose the Reapers are too. AIs are just very elaborate programs. VIs are elaborate programs that have the potential to become AIs under the right circumstances (EDI used to be a VI, for example). Does the destroy option distinguish between the sorts of programs it destroys? If not, then wave good bye to computing all together. And while you're waving good bye to computing, you might as well wave good bye to space flight too.

So no, the Destroy ending logically doesn't destroy all synthetics... not even just all reaper based synthetics.

(This does come back to why the ME3 endings suck, because they just don't make any sense.)

2) Synthesis is the "I agree with the StarChild" ending (which you clearly do). The main problem with this ending is - how long does it last for? There are species out there that are slowly climbing out of the mud and evolving. Synthesis would NOT stop evolution, would NOT stop Chaos in the long term. It's a futile act. War would be inevitable between the non-synthesized and the completely organic, for exactly the same reasons the StarChild gave for the inevitable war between synthetic and organic (to stop the inevitable war... ). The ONLY way to break the cycle and ensure it never happens again is to get rid of the StarChild and his Reapers completely (so Control doesn't cut it either).

There aren't more holes in my logic then there are with yours, because while I chose to believe what StarChild told me, which you can argue against, YOU didn't, which is fine. But arguing against StarChild's claims is purely conjecture. Also, we never had an idea which parts of Shep were replaced, she is not synthetic, she is a mix still described as human, it is conceivable she would survive without her implants at this point in time.
What might or might not survive? Conjecture. It was unacceptable for me before that consideration though, because personally I don't want to risk it, period.

By the way, war is NOT inevitable between organic and synthetic. Shepard can prove that by working out peace between the Quarians and the Geth. They CAN exist in harmony. If you want inevitable war - take a look at the Salarians and the Krogan, whom you CANNOT work out a peace between (at least, not that I could work out in the game, otherwise I would have done it).

No. We prove nothing. War is inevitable doesn't mean, war is inevitably going to happen every 50.000 years. Stop it once, good for you, but that doesn't mean the problem won't return. If you chose not to believe StarChild when he says this is a recurring pattern, that's fine. But you can hardly argue against him, because we lack the perspective to, and assuming we'd know is an arrogant assumption (because the world is flat).

I didn't state my reasons and logic behind coming to my decission to have it be needlessly picked apart, not to say I don't like to discuss it, but I've said this before: Some people believe StarChild, some don't. Logic behind choices is not going to be the same, and arguing against points with conjecture is rediculous (and frankly, a waste of time).

I have a right to, I would think, share my thoughts on this like anyone else, without it being picked apart every time, yes?

Modifié par Ottemis, 30 mars 2012 - 08:22 .

[naddaya]

I chose destroy. <_<

Shots:





I love this scene:

[Chugster]

AVPen wrote...

Finished up my playthrough for Ellen, took more pics:






 Whether or not the whole Indoctrination Theory is correct or not, I do find it highly curious that in both the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes physically changed into the same "indoctrinated eyes" that TIM also has. 

But TIM had those eyes back in ME2...and Shep has them if they go renegade....i think they are just cybernetic eyes...dont think they are anything to do with the reapers

[nitefyre410]

The problem with the choices are that they are not Shepard... they are all The Catalyst solutions. It says.. "We have to find a new solution" Shepard and It did not find out a new solution to anything... what it did was offer its solutions with considering anything.

Destroy = just proves it right in reverse that Organics and Synthetics will always find a way to destroy each other. That given the option you hate the Reapers so much you throw away EDI and Geth. Take note it has been shown that Reapers have there own unique code why not just destroy that.

Control: You prove the Illusive man right and worst you agree with The Catalyst current course of the action. In another 50,000 guess who's back doing what they do best... The Reapers.

Synthesis: While the thought itself is interesting idea in notion its a completely false solution because it solves nothing. The only thing that it does is some on a molecular level change the very make up DNA. It does not change how people view each other or why they fight,go to war. etc. Two weeks later people would be fighting and warring over something... "chaos" continues.

The Catalyst, ironically takes the form of child because it thinks like well.. a child. It see the world and life in very black and white terms hence why it created the Reapers. As a solution to what it sees as problem.... the issue is that Synthetics and Organics are not ALWAYS going to go to war and the war is not always going to play out the same.

Lets take the Geth for instance  - now 300 years prior after the  Quarains pulled a collective "OMGWTF KILL IT WITH FIRE" and started shut down Geth and killing there own people who did not agree with this... They instituted Martial Law - which tells me the populace for the most disagree'd with what their  government was doing. So here was a case of organics standing for Synthetics.. The Geth then offered to surrender themselves over peacefully. To stop the violence. Well according to The Catalyst the should have never have done this. It was only after a while that the Geth fought back.

Now, here comes the interesting part. This could be when The Geth prove The Catalyst right... nope. They pull back, the let the Quarains go... in their  infancy.. a Synthetic race choose not kill off and complete destroy an Organic one. So what happens 300 years later.. the Quarians come back guns blazing .. the Geth "OMGWTF" and run to the Reapers (Bad robot buddies BTW). Shepard comes puts foot to Reaper ass in grand fashion, gets the girl(if you play BroShep and romance Tali) the Geth through Legion sacrifice(Salute) gain true intelligence and individuality.

So here we go... The Geth now have another chance to prove the catalyst right(Which you can  choose BTW) but instead. The welcome the Quarians back home and got right back to what they always did... work and provide service for them. Build roads, power grids, downloading in there suits to booster their immune systems. What makes ever more telling is that the Geth made this choice on their own. They choose to serve.. a Synthetic Race choose to be of service to an organic race  for the past 300 years was trying to kill them and did after they gain free will. So the Geth gain free will and choose to back to what they always did be of service to the Quarians.  Not as slaves but freely of their own doing. 

Lets take EDI for example she spends the game instead of trying to come up with ways to kill the crew. She spends the game trying to better understand organics falls in love with one, alters her code so she would sacrifice herself then hurt the crew. She out right finds the Reapers " Repulsive". She is such a slap in the face the Catalyst Ideal that just mentioning her name should shut it up.

The Catalyst and its notions are so wrong that the only true solutions is tell to "**** off get the hell out of our galaxy and don't come back.. we Organics and Synthetics will find our own solution"

Instead you are forced to play along and dances to its tune when every bone in Shepard's body should b screaming no.

edited:   Typos  

Modifié par nitefyre410, 30 mars 2012 - 10:05 .

[nitefyre410]

Flies_by_Handles wrote...

After reading through all of these posts, I've realized that many fans, such as myself, chose Synthesis by accident. Look at how the game positions the three options: Shepard is placed directly in front of the giant beam of light once you finishing talking to Star Child. It's no wonder why some of us felt mislead about the decision making. You could even argue that this was Star Child's intention. It wants Shepard to pick Synthesis as the ideal choice. I'd rather not choose something based on what an unknown character has told me within the last ten minutes of a trilogy.....

 

When in truth none of them are the Ideal Choice..

The Ideal choice is for Shepard to  reject  The Catalyst solutions ... tell it  " We  will find our own solution.."  and either A. convince it to take the Reapers  leave change its point of view(Paragon) or  B.  kill it and the Reapers( renegade) 

[Chugster]

some random ME1/2 Fesmshep pics whilst i wait to get me Femshep in ME3:

Jane

Sara

Jane

Sara



i must do a picture run with my canon FemShep in ME2....i only discovered Fraps after my canon run

Modifié par Chugster, 30 mars 2012 - 10:32 .

[Lloedean]

 Margaret-Emma went for synthesis on my first playthrough. She wanted to save everyone, destroy felt like spitting on Legion's sacrifice and control... wait really? Just because of TIM, she couldn't choose it (she wanted to make him eat his ashtray since the beginning of ME2). So she walk toward the light and gets torn in little pieces and there I realised that she was dead. It was brutal because even if I had the feeling that Shepard would die at the end of ME3 since I saw the trailer, I realised how much I wanted her to be alive, my Margie couldn't die just like that, in the back of my mind, I'd always hope that somehow she lives up to te end of the serie so I could resolve my own questionnings about her in terms of character developpement. I couldn't. So I cried histerically during all the credits (and felt stupid), then happen the stargazer scene, when "Old Guy" said "Ok, one more story", I was all "What? It's not finished? Does that mean that Margie still survives? (Hope +10)". No, it didn't, so back in the spiral of despair.
 Actually, I didn't expect me to be so sad about it because when I play video games, I'm pretty cold-hearted, I play like I want to play and not like I feel, even if it means that I have to kill "Character-I-like" if I want to achieve my goals (when I could spare him for exemple). In others games, I had protagonists I really loved, which I put the same amount of care that I put in my Shepard and still, they end up badly but the differences with the ME3 endings is that I chose it. I think it was hurt me the most in the end, it wasn't the plot holes, the three colors (which I did'nt notice at first, and make me have a good laugh when I red that people thought that control was paragon because it was blue, yep, blue=paragon like TIM's eyes are blue... like paragon), it was the fact that you do not choose really how you want to end your journey with Shepard, she die no matter what, like if you were running and suddendly hurt a glass wall, in terms of character developpement I wasn't happy. Before ME3 came out, I used to think that it would be the chapter where Margaret-Emma either recovered completely or end up utterly broken, by the end, nothing hinted more one way or another, she was weaken by the burden of responsabilities but the support provided by people around her gave me good hope about her being able to live with this... with the endings in the way they are actually, I felt... cut, she died in WIP state and I couldn't do anything about it. I don't feel closure in any way.
 It tooks me some time to get over the depression state and make my little brain works as it does before, meaning "I fill out all the plot holes and see if I can arrange this". So, I came on the forums, red all indoctrination theories and al., found out that Shepard can survive the destroy ending if you have enough EMS, rage a little about it because I don't have an internet connexion effective enough to permit to play multiplayer until I came back home with my computer. So, I'm stuck in my NG+ before Cerberus headquarters and Margie don't believe me when I told her that the future will not be "according to her plan"


Me? Dying again? No way!"

(There I lay down my rant who was raging in my head since I first finished the game. I'm sorry for this painful wall of text, which it must be filled with nonsense and mistakes as english is not my native language. Again, I'm sorry and still want to point out that there is a lot of awesome FemShep in this tread)

Modifié par Lloedean, 30 mars 2012 - 10:35 .

[Cyansomnia]

@nitefyre410

Agreed. This is what makes the Star Child's logic so ridiculous. There is proof everywhere you look that synthetics will not always choose to eradicate organics. The Geth and EDI are perfect examples.

This is why I don't believe this mythical/AI/god thing. If it's been repeating this cycle for time immemorial, how does it even know the actual result of what would happen if it didn't interfere?

Simulations? Mathematics and probability? Personal judgement?

It's like what happened with Mordin and the Genophage. The Salarians decided to make a call, renewing the sterility plague. This was based on the fact they believed the Krogan would rise up and try to conquer the galaxy. They don't know this would happen for fact, it's just 'probable' or 'logically sound' to them. With Wrex and Eve in charge, this doesn't seem like a likely scenario. Mordin himself even admits he felt it was a mistake.

Anyway, this is why my Shepard, in no way shape or form would buy these flawed 'solutions'. This is why she'd tell the Star Child to go stuff it, find the Reaper off-switch and go help rebuild a shattered galaxy.

Then meet Garrus at the bar.  

Modifié par Aislinn Trista, 30 mars 2012 - 11:33 .

[nitefyre410]

Aislinn Trista wrote...

@nitefyre410

Agreed. This is what makes the Star Child's logic so ridiculous. There is proof everywhere you look that synthetics will not always choose to eradicate organics. The Geth and EDI are perfect examples.

This is why I don't believe this mythical/AI/god thing. If it's been repeating this cycle for time immemorial, how does it even know the actual result of what would happen if it didn't interfere?

Simulations? Mathematics and probability? Personal judgement?

It's like what happened with Mordin and the Genophage. The Salarians decided to make a call, renewing the sterility plague. This was based on the fact they believed the Krogan would rise up and try to conquer the galaxy. They don't know this would happen for fact, it's just 'probable' or 'logically sound' to them. With Wrex and Eve in charge, this doesn't seem like a likely scenario. Mordin himself even admits he felt it was a mistake.

Anyway, this why my Shepard, in no way shape or form would buy these flawed 'solutions'. This is why she'd tell the Star Child to go stuff it, find the Reaper off-switch and go help rebuild a shattered galaxy.

Then meet Garrus at the bar.  

   

Exactly,   and sense all three of my  Shepards exist in the same Mass Effect Head canon story, They all  meet Garrus at the bar.. along with  Tali,  and  Specialist Traynor , get complete wasted  toast the fallen and do what their friends  want them to do and thats live. 

The  Catalyst can go kick  rocks... 

[Sinapus]

RainyDayLover wrote...
So taking the endings at face-value, I found Control to be the best option, especially if you resolved the Quarian/Geth conflict peacefully (or sided with the Geth). With Control, Shepard ARE the Reapers so you can shape the galaxy however you wish, and you can start by rebuilding the Mass Relays.

Yes, this is the one I was referring to.

[nitefyre410]

RainyDayLover wrote...
So taking the endings at face-value, I found Control to be the best option, especially if you resolved the Quarian/Geth conflict peacefully (or sided with the Geth). With Control, Shepard ARE the Reapers so you can shape the galaxy however you wish, and you can start by rebuilding the Mass Relays.

Okay even I have  to admit that is funny and where did the refreshing space lemonade come from... LOL 

[naddaya]

Chugster wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Finished up my playthrough for Ellen, took more pics:






 Whether or not the whole Indoctrination Theory is correct or not, I do find it highly curious that in both the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes physically changed into the same "indoctrinated eyes" that TIM also has. 

But TIM had those eyes back in ME2...and Shep has them if they go renegade....i think they are just cybernetic eyes...dont think they are anything to do with the reapers

Shepard's implants are different. They're red and they don't have the three little dots around the pupil. These are TIM's eyes.

[AtlasMickey]

Go green!





Synthesis ending FTW! XD

[Chugster]

m_k wrote...

Chugster wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Finished up my playthrough for Ellen, took more pics:






 Whether or not the whole Indoctrination Theory is correct or not, I do find it highly curious that in both the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes physically changed into the same "indoctrinated eyes" that TIM also has. 

But TIM had those eyes back in ME2...and Shep has them if they go renegade....i think they are just cybernetic eyes...dont think they are anything to do with the reapers

Shepard's implants are different. They're red and they don't have the three little dots around the pupil. These are TIM's eyes.

yes but TIM had the eyes before he was indoctrinated...unless you think he was indoctrinated from the start of ME2?

just saying that i think glowy TIM eyes come from implants not reaper indoctrination

Modifié par Chugster, 30 mars 2012 - 12:59 .

[SaturnRing]

RainyDayLover wrote...

Regardless of whether you believe in the Starchild or not, it is quite evident your Shepard believes him. Bioware wanted it this way, so unless they change the endings or outright state that the indoctrination theory is true (meaning that they shipped out an incomplete game without an ending..), I'm afraid there's nothing that could be done...

So taking the endings at face-value, I found Control to be the best option, especially if you resolved the Quarian/Geth conflict peacefully (or sided with the Geth). With Control, Shepard ARE the Reapers so you can shape the galaxy however you wish, and you can start by rebuilding the Mass Relays.

Exactly. Starchild concept makes no sense to me anyway -  ME world is structured in way that doesn't leave space for such a thing as a whinny creator...
But the point is that we have to make a choice.

 If Starchild intend is to trick Shepard, why offer her the possibility to destroy him in the first place and hope she'll choose something else [it's not like she can walk to a console and find out for herself "damn there's a destroy option? why didn't you tell me about it?". If there is indeed trickery ( indoctrination?), all choices are rigged to me - i cannot believe that after going at it so hard - in an attempt to destroy again -  Starchild would out of the blue, give somebody else a clear shot at destroying him and the reapers and plead in that whinny voice of his 'will you destroy us?'  Add to that the fact that you could actually survive! Nothing smells right. At that point everything is just speculation...Like the lights had been there sitting waiting for someone to jump in...
If i'm gonna choose i'll attempt to control him and the Reapers, Acquire their tech make them fix the citadel and the relays, and tell them to destroyed themselves and starchild. Maybe i'll keep a few reapers just in case...  

Modifié par SaturnRing, 30 mars 2012 - 01:32 .

[SaturnRing]

AtlasMickey wrote...

Go green!





Synthesis ending FTW! XD

No green for my canon but it looks awesome on June's armor, She is beautiful as always.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 30 mars 2012 - 01:35 .

[viserion]

Chugster wrote...

m_k wrote...

Chugster wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Finished up my playthrough for Ellen, took more pics:



/snip


 Whether or not the whole Indoctrination Theory is correct or not, I do find it highly curious that in both the Control and Synthesis endings, Shepard's eyes physically changed into the same "indoctrinated eyes" that TIM also has. 

But TIM had those eyes back in ME2...and Shep has them if they go renegade....i think they are just cybernetic eyes...dont think they are anything to do with the reapers

Shepard's implants are different. They're red and they don't have the three little dots around the pupil. These are TIM's eyes.

yes but TIM had the eyes before he was indoctrinated...unless you think he was indoctrinated from the start of ME2?

just saying that i think glowy TIM eyes come from implants not reaper indoctrination

Actually, TIM's eyes appear that way because of exposure to reaper tech. How he came in contact with a reaper artifact is told in Mass Effect: Evolution. Make of that what you will, but I think TIM is a sleeper agent for the reapers - his indoctrination started during the First Contact War.

Modifié par Wintersect, 30 mars 2012 - 02:50 .

[Lucky Thirteen]

You guys are trying to find solutions to the plot holes and are just adding and discovering more plot holes.

Modifié par Lucky Thirteen, 30 mars 2012 - 01:39 .

[adneate]

Doesn't the crucible just seem like this in the end. Watch out Reapers we'll destroy our civilization at you! Then you'll be sorry.