20761 réponses à ce sujet

[AtlasMickey]

[LilaNoir]

And to illustrate my emotions during the control/synthesis/destroy fiasco...

At first I was like:


And then I was like:

What?

[SaturnRing]

Wintersect wrote...


I think the Reapers have the ability to control the rate of indoctrination as they deem necessary. Grayson wasn't  someone with power - no reason to let him keep his own free will. The Illusive Man, on the other hand, has what Grayson didn't: resources and power.

I guess it really all comes down to head canon - we are never given a clear reason for the Illusive Man's actions in ME2. Sure, Shepard was a "bloody icon" but, really, that can't be the only reason she was brought back to life. In my opinion, they brought her back so they could implant her with reaper tech and eventually turn her into one of their agents. I apologize if you aren't a supporter of the indoctrination theory, but with what we have, it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

And this is why my Shepards always choose Destroy, despite the implications of genocide. Ruthless calculus of war, eh Garrus?

Didn't TIM implanted P. Greyson himself as payback for taking Gillian away from him?

I always believed an attempt was made by TIM to indoctrinate Shepard through the Lazarus project. It just didn't work. Wether it's because she's too stubborn and unpredictable (the cypher), or some other reason, can't say...

As for choices Starchild makes destroy option look too good; he's practically begging you to choose it. I was so suspicious that i went for the obvious most dangerous one: control.


 

Modifié par SaturnRing, 30 mars 2012 - 03:44 .

[Mestesso]

NanNoir wrote...

And to illustrate my emotions during the control/synthesis/destroy fiasco...

At first I was like:


And then I was like:

What?

Lol!  Btw, she's super cute as a button.

[nitefyre410]

AtlasMickey wrote...

 

posting pictures of  Smexy Asian  FemShep is not going to make  me hate the endings less... 

but it will make say... thats a great looking Shepard 

[TheChris92]

Wintersect wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

Wintersect wrote...

TheChris92 wrote...

Possibly. The Reapers were able to take control of Paul Grayson from Dark Space, so why couldn't they dominate The Illusive Man back during ME2?

If I remember correctly, Saren (or the codex, idrk) says something about how the indoctrination process eventually turns the subject into a mindless pawn; if the indoctrination is stronger, the agent becomes less capable. The Illusive Man would not have been as useful if he ended up like Paul Grayson.

Right, I think the reason why I was curious is because the Illusive Man has had those eyes for over 20 years. One would think that would be enough time for the Reapers to dominate him, it didn't take that long with Grayson. We know what happens to him in Mass Effect 3, so why the wait? Why would he try to recover Shepards remains from the Collectors?

I think the Reapers have the ability to control the rate of indoctrination as they deem necessary. Grayson wasn't  someone with power - no reason to let him keep his own free will. The Illusive Man, on the other hand, has what Grayson didn't: resources and power.

I guess it really all comes down to head canon - we are never given a clear reason for the Illusive Man's actions in ME2. Sure, Shepard was a "bloody icon" but, really, that can't be the only reason she was brought back to life. In my opinion, they brought her back so they could implant her with reaper tech and eventually turn her into one of their agents. I apologize if you aren't a supporter of the indoctrination theory, but with what we have, it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

And this is why my Shepards always choose Destroy, despite the implications of genocide. Ruthless calculus of war, eh Garrus?

If Shepard is indoctrinated by the Reapers, then she shouldn't be able to recover from it, death is only escape. That's what we have been told from the games so far anyway. I don't see it as an alternative. I'm not really fan of any of the endings, and I would like to believe that none of the endings happened. But I can't really go with the indoctrination theory either. 

PS. I apologize if I pulled the thread off-topic, this'll be the last post 

Modifié par TheChris92, 30 mars 2012 - 03:43 .

[yesikareyes]

Wintersect wrote...

I think the Reapers have the ability to control the rate of indoctrination as they deem necessary. Grayson wasn't  someone with power - no reason to let him keep his own free will. The Illusive Man, on the other hand, has what Grayson didn't: resources and power.

I guess it really all comes down to head canon - we are never given a clear reason for the Illusive Man's actions in ME2. Sure, Shepard was a "bloody icon" but, really, that can't be the only reason she was brought back to life. In my opinion, they brought her back so they could implant her with reaper tech and eventually turn her into one of their agents. I apologize if you aren't a supporter of the indoctrination theory, but with what we have, it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

And this is why my Shepards always choose Destroy, despite the implications of genocide. Ruthless calculus of war, eh Garrus?

I like this, indoctrination theory all the way!  

Wow, it's my first post here lol

[Captain Arty]

Just out of respect for those that don't want to talk about the endings, let's try to keep this thread focused on femshep. There are lots of other threads to discuss the endings, and I'll be right there with you.

[viserion]

SaturnRing wrote...

Wintersect wrote...


I think the Reapers have the ability to control the rate of indoctrination as they deem necessary. Grayson wasn't  someone with power - no reason to let him keep his own free will. The Illusive Man, on the other hand, has what Grayson didn't: resources and power.

I guess it really all comes down to head canon - we are never given a clear reason for the Illusive Man's actions in ME2. Sure, Shepard was a "bloody icon" but, really, that can't be the only reason she was brought back to life. In my opinion, they brought her back so they could implant her with reaper tech and eventually turn her into one of their agents. I apologize if you aren't a supporter of the indoctrination theory, but with what we have, it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

And this is why my Shepards always choose Destroy, despite the implications of genocide. Ruthless calculus of war, eh Garrus?

Didn't TIM implanted P. Greyson himself as payback for taking Gillian away from him?

I always believed an attempt was made by TIM to indoctrinate Shepard through the Lazarus project. It just didn't work. Wether it's because she's too stubborn and unpredictable (the cypher), or some other reason, can't say...

You're right about that. Sorry, it's been awhile since I read Retribution so the details aren't that clear for me anymore. Still, the effect of indoctrination isn't controlled by TIM himself. It may have been caused by him, but did he have any say at all in the rate Grayson was changed?

Also, I agree with you. The indoctrination didn't work as planned because of something special about Shepard. Which is why I think if "the Catalyst" took the form of say, the one she left on Virmire or one of her other dead friends, instead of the child she saw getting killed by the Reaper, then the impact would've been so different. Not any better, mind you... but still.


Edit: whoops, sorry for derailing. Gonna post a picture of my femshep to make this post more relevant. Never wanted to offend anyone. I just wanted to talk about how my femShep ended her story but I guess that discussion is better suited somewhere else.

Modifié par Wintersect, 30 mars 2012 - 04:09 .

[CrazyRah]

It's absolutely stunning weather outside so reading through this thread and other parts of the BSN is rather enjoyable in the sun

[AtlasMickey]

nitefyre410 wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...

 

posting pictures of  Smexy Asian  FemShep is not going to make  me hate the endings less... 

but it will make say... thats a great looking Shepard 

Thanks. :happy:

Here's my custom channel mixer edit.

[Chugster]

hmm, gonna have to ignore the whole TIM eyes are reaper tech....they look too good on my Shep



and in my second favourite FemShep pic:

Modifié par Chugster, 30 mars 2012 - 04:00 .

[SaturnRing]

Wintersect wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...


Didn't TIM implanted P. Greyson himself as payback for taking Gillian away from him?

I always believed an attempt was made by TIM to indoctrinate Shepard through the Lazarus project. It just didn't work. Wether it's because she's too stubborn and unpredictable (the cypher), or some other reason, can't say...

You're right about that. Sorry, it's been awhile since I read Retribution so the details aren't that clear for me anymore. Still, the effect of indoctrination isn't controlled by TIM himself. It may have been caused by him, but did he have any say at all in the rate Grayson was changed?

Also, I agree with you. The indoctrination didn't work as planned because of something special about Shepard. Which is why I think if "the Catalyst" took the form of say, the one she left on Virmire or one of her other dead friends, instead of the child she saw getting killed by the Reaper, then the impact would've been so different. Not any better, mind you... but still.


Edit: whoops, sorry for derailing. Gonna post a picture of my femshep to make this post more relevant.

Well (sorry for phrasing it so poorly) i was hoping you could give us some insight on how Greyson was implanted...i can't quite remember it properly. But i pretty much agree with how you're exposing those facts.

Love the pic btw. Sorry for getting you off topic.

Modifié par SaturnRing, 30 mars 2012 - 04:03 .

[nitefyre410]

AtlasMickey wrote...

Thanks. :happy:

Here's my custom channel mixer edit.

  

   


Roselyn my  third Shepard in ME 2... I'm going back through and  tweeking the her playthrough some.. 

[Silver]

*deleted*

Modifié par silverhammer08, 30 mars 2012 - 11:29 .

[Demonhoopa]

Sam's adventures continue

[mellifera]

AtlasMickey wrote...
If you're upset with speculation, you shouldn't be engaging the genre of speculative fiction. That's what science fiction is. That's what Mass Effect is. 

Yeah... no.

[SaturnRing]

Demonhoopa wrote...

Sam's adventures continue

That is brutal. But perfectly realistic. 

My Ash survived though...

[sagefic]

rizuno wrote...

It may have already been mentioned (probably) but YAYS REVERSABLE FEMSHEP COVER!!!!

Indeed.

AtlasMickey wrote...

This thread needs more cheerleaders!

*snip*

If you're upset with speculation, you shouldn't be engaging the genre of speculative fiction. That's what science fiction is. That's what Mass Effect is. 

SaturnRing wrote...
No green for my canon but it looks awesome on June's armor, She is beautiful as always.

SR you are the glue that holds this thread together. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/heart.png[/smilie]

 

I'm sorry, what? What speculative fiction? okay Edit: looked it up. yeah. even if mass effect is this genre, the ending is still awful.

In my mind, fiction is stuff that is true in its own universe - eVEN if that universe is speculative. You have to carefully craft that universe. And if you pull out all the underpinnings of that universe in one *yoink!* you don't have Art with a capital 'a'. You have a mess.

Fantasy, I believe, has to be MORE real than reality in this sense: if you have magic/science that acts as magic, you need to make up for that by having other parts of that world be even more consistent and grounded in how people actually act and what they actually do. Case in point: Harry Potter, for all that the magic is totally 'fix anything' is grounded in kids who act like kids and think like kids. It works because we believe the characters and are willing to invest in their world. 

At the end of Mass Effect, everything we know about the world gets thrown out the window. Everything we know about Shepard gets thrown out the window. This is not artistic lisence. This is a mistake. This is bad writing. This is silly and sophmorish and completely deserves the derision that fans have pointed at it. And more than fans: writers, columnists, etc. have chimed in on it. Remember the guy who said Mass Effect is the most important sci-fi of our generation? He wrote an article called Mass Effect, Tolkien and Your BullSh*t Artisitc process. It's a great read. He totally hits it out of the park on why the ending is so miserable on the level of a story, on the level of a RPG, on the level of world-building, on the level of just about anything.

Look, I know some people think the ending was fine or those of us who hate it are being - I dunno. Silly? Not enjoying the game for what it is? And I have no intention to derail the thread over and over. But the thing is this: you give us a character femshep and then make her bite the dust (or whatever happened, i still think it's unclear) at the end of the game, and I, for one, cannot separate that from her story. That's where her story ends. That means the endings are relevant to femshep. And they are relevant to the thread.

I agree, I don't want this to devolve into personal attacks, etc. But I guess based on what I've heard others say, they need this outlet to talk about the endings and they want to discuss it. I think as long as we are civil, we can 'allow' that topic of conversation.

In the past, for example, we've debated choices we've made and kept it civil. I have strong opinions on the choices I make for femshep. Honestly, I don't just RP it. That's part of why I really have trouble with alts. I do what I think is *morally correct* in each decision. Sometimes I've changed my mind. But I really think what I choose is the right thing to do. Doesn't mean I impose that on other sheps or playthroughs or think you're awful if you choose differently than me. I might think you're wrong, but I can still respect you.

So, yeah, I agree. Sometimes the thread is a little grumpy these days. Heck, sometimes I have gotten myself into a good mood, then I come here, see the vitrol, and I'm back to angry again and I think 'Dang it! Why couldnt you just post femshep happies and make me happy too." but it's a public thread, with public opinion. so long as its adult and civil and on topic (and again, i think the ending talk is), people can say what they want.

I don't believe in being a cheerleader. I, personally, believe actively engaging art is being a responsive audience. I always find if you just say 'Go team!' all the time, you're not really paying attention to the plays. BioWare fumbled the ball. I think it's perfectly reasonable if I take note of that.

And if tacking a femshep pic on makes this relevant, hey, here you go:

Modifié par sagequeen, 30 mars 2012 - 04:41 .

[Sable Phoenix]

I agree that discussing the ending on its own is off topic, but you'll notice we started out discussing how it affected our Sheps and their responses to it. THAT's not off topic. No reason we can't keep discussing that aspect of it.

For example. The biggest reason I hate the ending? It stole Jessica from me. Imagine if you have a wife, sister, daughter, mother... and one day she vanishes. You don't know if she's alive or dead, you don't know if she was kidnapped or hit by a car, if she's being tortured... that's why I feel the way I do. I don't know.. The breath at the end doesn't help. That's like getting a phone call with a few seconds of your loved one's wordless voice before the line goes dead.

I just want my Jessica back. Please, BioWare... can't I just have her back?

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 30 mars 2012 - 04:50 .

[TheMarshal]

Chugster wrote...

yes but TIM had the eyes before he was indoctrinated...unless you think he was indoctrinated from the start of ME2?

just saying that i think glowy TIM eyes come from implants not reaper indoctrination

He got those eyes when he came into contact with the Reaper artifact.  It transferred some kind of knowledge to him, allowing him to understand every spoken language, operate unfamiliar tech, etc.  Every other organic being that came into contact with that artifact became a husk.  I would venture that the artifact "tried something different" when he touched it.

[RainyDayLover]

http://vulpesetuva.t...nough-one-thing

I...I'm..speechless. I don't know if I should be glad that was cut from the game, because it would have made the ending harder to swallow. Anyhow, just when I thought I was starting to feel better about it all, I had to come across that link. Argh.

I feel like sh!t.

Modifié par RainyDayLover, 30 mars 2012 - 04:49 .

[SaturnRing]

sagequeen wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...
No green for my canon but it looks awesome on June's armor, She is beautiful as always

I'm sorry, what? What speculative fiction? okay Edit: looked it up. yeah. even if mass effect is this genre, the ending is still awful.

I don't know what speculative scifi refers to...in case you're quoting me...

Modifié par SaturnRing, 30 mars 2012 - 04:51 .

[LilaNoir]

yukidama wrote...

AtlasMickey wrote...
If you're upset with speculation, you shouldn't be engaging the genre of speculative fiction. That's what science fiction is. That's what Mass Effect is. 

Yeah... no.

My thoughts exactly, yukidama.

Here's a random and irrelevant (maybe not so irrelevant since she is indeed femshep material) picture of Lou being scanned:



@Mestesso Thank you! I'm not sure how she feels about being called a button. She gets called that one too many times. Will a button do this:


Call me a button again.

Kidding! She appreciates all the lovely comments. Thank you.

[Demonhoopa]

SaturnRing wrote...

Demonhoopa wrote...

Sam's adventures continue

That is brutal. But perfectly realistic. 

My Ash survived though...

Ash had survived both times for me prior (Kaidan was alive my first playthrough).

Rhynne, as anyone who has read her journal knows, had a deep, complex but tumultuous friendship with Ashley. She would NEVER have considered shooting her. Yeah she yelled at Ashley on Mars and told her to "Have a cup of shut the f*ck up and get over it", but once Ash was hurt, Rhynne visited her regularly and worked hard to repair their damaged friendship to where they could at least be cordial and professional. Yeah it was still strained but she was able to talk Ashley down on the Citadel.

Fiona, being the Mary Sue she is, spend most of her time with Ash practically begging Ash to trust and believe in her :::puke::: so it didn't take much to get Ash to turn her gun on Udina.

Sam was very pissed about Horizon and felt a good friend had turned her back when she was needed most. Ash picked the Alliance over her even though the Alliance had smeared Shepard's name in death and tried to make her look like a nut job concerning the Reapers. Sam never forgave her. When Ash was critically injured on Mars, she did go to the hospital and talk to the doctors to make sure Ashley would recover. She even went to her room but could only get as far as the front door. She watched Ashley sleep through the window but did not, could not enter.

While Sam had had it up to her eyebrows with Ashley's accusations and jabbing comments about Cerberus, she never wished her harm. However, when Ashley just looked at her like she was a stranger as Sam frantically tried to tell her that Cerberus was about to come crashing through the door, and refused to listen even though she had Garrus AND Liara with her, that was the last straw. She plugged her. The irony that Ashley, with all her "honor" and blind loyalty to the Alliance, basically died protecting a Cerberus agent (Udina) was not lost on Sam.

While she found this sad, her patented answer to any crew member that tried to console her was "She brought it on herself". Only Joker seemed to truly echo Sam's feelings "You'd think we'd have earned the benefit of the doubt right now".

"Funny you should say that Joker. That's exactly what I was thinking on Horizon".

Modifié par Demonhoopa, 30 mars 2012 - 05:13 .