20761 réponses à ce sujet

[SaturnRing]

TheMarshal wrote...

SaturnRing wrote...

Wow. We're actually talking romance from a femshep pov.  I don't understand???

But you're debating the legitimacies of certain romances and the depth of others.  That FemShep is a player in all of those romances is tangential, since if people were doing a comparison of Thane's vs. Garrus' romance we'd tell them to take it outside as well.

That's only my pov; i only talk for myself...that's a lot of unwritten rules. The only thing i take from this is that expressing my views(and i really tried to do so without offending anybody) is not welcome. So i will not bother you any futher; at least not today...

Modifié par SaturnRing, 04 mai 2012 - 09:45 .

[draken-heart]

YourFunnyUncle wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Oh geez.

Liara and Femshep is a lesbian relationship for Femshep. Technically or otherwise. All Asari are female. They are not "null."

Furthermore, Liara is entirely composed of human female secondary sex characteristics. Those are things straight men and gay women are attracted to. In fact, they are often - although not exclusively, plenty of folks are attracted to androgyny - more important in determining sexual attraction than primary sex characteristics (eg. penis, vagina).

There is no such thing as a straight or gay relationship from the Asari perspective. They do not have gender or gender roles. The concept of gender requires some kind of dichotomy, and for a unisex species none exists from one to form.

However, Femshep is a human and comes from a culture that has feminine and masculine genders. Liara, and all Asari, are feminine by human definition.

The origin of the argument that Femshep/Liara "doesn't count" is a self-serving one that BioWare had offered in self-defense when it was pointed out to them that Mass Effect already had a lesbian romance, so not having a M/M one (at the time) was especially egregious. 0

I wasn't talking from a human or Asari perspective. I was talking from a scientific perspective. you say they are all female. I say they are all Asari. This is not "null" it is something else. A third way, if you will.

I fully accept that Lesbians and straight men are more likely to be attracted to Asari because of their obvious female characteristics and I am wholeheartedly behind you when you say that lesbians were better served by ME1 than gay men, but strictly speaking it is not the case that they are female. I couldn't care less what Bioware said on the matter. This is just what is obvious to me from a scientific perspective.

All that said, I still maintain that human society in the Mass Effect Universe is one where gay and lesbian relationships seem to be accepted by society as normal. For this reason I don't see that any Shepard would have to "come out" as they'd have no need to be in the closet in the first place.

maybe in general, but there maybe people that do not approve, not religious freaks but traditionalists
and the Nef journal in ME2 where she is shocked by her attraction  to Morinth is an indication that it is still quite uncommon for people to like the same Gender. Same could be said of a gay fem!Shepard who stayed in the closet, she may have been shocked about liking another female that way and put it away as a "stupid girl crush"

[sagefic]

 okay, so know this is Kaidan's VA and not Jen Hale, but still. this tweet is sort of making me happy:

https://twitter.com/...520757251350528 

*sage swings wildly from hope to despair re: the EC. don't mind me....*

(also, i imagine that was meant to say 'recording'. though maybe sbarge is now on the re-coding team as well?)

Modifié par sagequeen, 04 mai 2012 - 09:54 .

[upsettingshorts]

YourFunnyUncle wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Oh geez.

Liara and Femshep is a lesbian relationship for Femshep. Technically or otherwise. All Asari are female. They are not "null."

Furthermore, Liara is entirely composed of human female secondary sex characteristics. Those are things straight men and gay women are attracted to. In fact, they are often - although not exclusively, plenty of folks are attracted to androgyny - more important in determining sexual attraction than primary sex characteristics (eg. penis, vagina).

There is no such thing as a straight or gay relationship from the Asari perspective. They do not have gender or gender roles. The concept of gender requires some kind of dichotomy, and for a unisex species none exists from one to form.

However, Femshep is a human and comes from a culture that has feminine and masculine genders. Liara, and all Asari, are feminine by human definition.

The origin of the argument that Femshep/Liara "doesn't count" is a self-serving one that BioWare had offered in self-defense when it was pointed out to them that Mass Effect already had a lesbian romance, so not having a M/M one (at the time) was especially egregious. 0

I wasn't talking from a human or Asari perspective. I was talking from a scientific perspective. you say they are all female. I say they are all Asari. This is not "null" it is something else. A third way, if you will.

Um, what definition of female are you using?  I'm using the one that says an organism that produces eggs.  By that definition, all Asari are female.  All non-plant creatures who reproduce in the real world via parthenogenesis are also female.

By the definitions I am using:

Asari have one sex, female.
Asari have no gender because they have no need or reason for the concept.

Taken into account with - as you acknowledge - their sharing of predominantly human female secondary sex characteristics would seem to make this an open-and-shut case of a lesbian relationship from Femshep's perspective.   That this isn't the case for Liara isn't strictly relevant, certainly not to the Femshep thread.

BioWare's use of sex and gender with regards to the Asari are inconsistent and often incorrect, which is understandable since using sex and gender as terms interchangably is fairly common.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 04 mai 2012 - 10:05 .

[ipgd]

YourFunnyUncle wrote...

I wasn't talking from a human or Asari perspective. I was talking from a scientific perspective. you say they are all female. I say they are all Asari. This is not "null" it is something else. A third way, if you will.

I fully accept that Lesbians and straight men are more likely to be attracted to Asari because of their obvious female characteristics and I am wholeheartedly behind you when you say that lesbians were better served by ME1 than gay men, but strictly speaking it is not the case that they are female. I couldn't care less what Bioware said on the matter. This is just what is obvious to me from a scientific perspective.

All that said, I still maintain that human society in the Mass Effect Universe is one where gay and lesbian relationships seem to be accepted by society as normal. For this reason I don't see that any Shepard would have to "come out" as they'd have no need to be in the closet in the first place.

asari are scentifically female in every regard

they have female secondary sexual characteristics, they gestate and carry children, and they have female genitals

that asari do not have a male/female binary does not mean that they are not female. there are actual monosexed animal species on earth that reproduce very similarly to asari (see: the new mexico whiptail). those animals are still female, biologically and scientifically and everythingically.

the only place that asari are not female is bioware's PR statements.

[Aipex8]

draken-heart wrote...

maybe in general, but there maybe people that do not approve, not religious freaks but traditionalists
and the Nef journal in ME2 where she is shocked by her attraction  to Morinth is an indication that it is still quite uncommon for people to like the same Gender. Same could be said of a gay fem!Shepard who stayed in the closet, she may have been shocked about liking another female that way and put it away as a "stupid girl crush"

Just because Nef is shocked that she's attracted to a female doesn't mean that it's frowned on by society or uncommon. It just means that she thought she was straight and suddenly she wasn't. That would shock me too, doesn't mean I frown upon homosexuality.

Nika, on the other hand, was always gay and was quite attracted to Liara because she appeared to be female regardless of the science behind the scene or BW's PR statements.

Modifié par Aipex8, 04 mai 2012 - 10:26 .

[LadyAly]

Chiara time for a bit this evening

Don't make her angry ;P



this ****hole Omega .. but the Barkeeper payed for it and Zaeed and Garrus approved ;P



.. and bittersweet meeting with Anderson on the Citadel

[draken-heart]

Aipex8 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

maybe in general, but there maybe people that do not approve, not religious freaks but traditionalists
and the Nef journal in ME2 where she is shocked by her attraction  to Morinth is an indication that it is still quite uncommon for people to like the same Gender. Same could be said of a gay fem!Shepard who stayed in the closet, she may have been shocked about liking another female that way and put it away as a "stupid girl crush"

Just because Nef is shocked that she's attracted to a female doesn't mean that it's frowned on by society or uncommon. It just means that she thought she was straight and suddenly she wasn't. That would shock me too, doesn't mean I frown upon homosexuality.

Nika, on the other hand, was always gay and was quite attracted to Liara because she appeared to be female regardless of the science behind the scene or BW's PR statements.

like i said, there maybe some out there who disapprove of it, wasnot saying there are or have to be. you got to admit, if i, a dude like another guy and lived in the ME universe i'd keep it a secret because of how wierd it sounds.

not saying Shepard would be afraid to come out, just that she might not due to her thinking it is crazy to like her own gender. certainly there are other reasons than fear when it comes to not coming out of the closet.

Modifié par draken-heart, 04 mai 2012 - 10:51 .

[Aipex8]

draken-heart wrote...

Aipex8 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

maybe in general, but there maybe people that do not approve, not religious freaks but traditionalists
and the Nef journal in ME2 where she is shocked by her attraction  to Morinth is an indication that it is still quite uncommon for people to like the same Gender. Same could be said of a gay fem!Shepard who stayed in the closet, she may have been shocked about liking another female that way and put it away as a "stupid girl crush"

Just because Nef is shocked that she's attracted to a female doesn't mean that it's frowned on by society or uncommon. It just means that she thought she was straight and suddenly she wasn't. That would shock me too, doesn't mean I frown upon homosexuality.

Nika, on the other hand, was always gay and was quite attracted to Liara because she appeared to be female regardless of the science behind the scene or BW's PR statements.

like i said, there maybe some out there who disapprove of it, wasnot saying there are or have to be. you got to admit, if i, a dude like another guy and lived in the ME universe i'd keep it a secret because of how wierd it sounds.

not saying Shepard would be afraid to come out, just that she might not due to her thinking it is crazy to like her own gender.

It's not weird or crazy for a person to be gay. And while it is a struggle for acceptance today, I'm sure in 100+ years it won't be.

Modifié par Aipex8, 04 mai 2012 - 10:51 .

[Syrdeth]

Boo! Why do all the good conversations happen while I'm not at home to respond.

sagequeen wrote...

@ gilsa. so true. i tend to play a game more than once, so i often end up making a character with a romance in mind, which i guess 1) makes the romance make more sense. if i go into it with a character that feels (to me, anyhow) 'just right' for that LI, the romance plays out more naturally. the people seem to fit together. like when ELE played drea with jacob and said, 'eh, she's cheesy sometimes' as a way to explain the early awkward dialog. i could never play that same romance with kyrie because it's just NOT was she would say to initiate it ever. less headcanoning if you set up the romance from the start.

I kinda had the opposite experience, Sage.

The very first time I played Maria through ME1, she romanced somebody. I don't even remember who. I honestly don't. I could probably dig up my very, very old ME1 saves and find out, but it's irrelevant now. I do remember thinking that it wasn't the right fit for her, but having her stay "single" didn't feel right either. That probably doesn't make sense to anyone but me.

Anyways, so, I import her to ME2 and play until I get Garrus. I didn't know he was romanceable yet. I decide to spoil myself and watch some ME2 Garrus vids on Youtube and stumbled across the romance vids. It was then I knew. These two were perfect for each other. I stopped her ME2 playthrough right then and there. I loaded up ME1, imported her from her ME1 saves and played ME1 again. Yes, all of it. It took a few weeks. I made sure she didn't have a LI *cough*Kaidanandthenuke*cough* and then imported her to ME2. All so she could be with Garrus with no strings attached. Yes, I am that insane. But, I felt it was worth it.

I've posted this a few times, but look at the way she's looking at him. Right there (for me) is when she started to realize that she truly cared for Garrus. Maybe she wouldn't admit it to herself until later, but that was the start.

sagequeen wrote...

also, 2) while you can youtube a lot, it never has the same charm as actually playing the romance. because you rarely get ALL the easter eggs, the extra dialogs, the little moments while on missions, etc. and even just stupid little things like ALWAYS having garrus in your party with a garrus mancer and having matching sniper rifles can go a long ways to making the love feel real.

true love means matching armor and guns, after all. am i right or am i right?

So true. Playing through it in game is a totally different experience from watching it on Youtube. For my headcanon, Maria and Garrus are two really good friends that decided to go for more. Sure, it started off as just "blowing off steam", but it is more than that now. They just click. Matching guns and all. Though... not the matching armor.

That's also why I made Kendra. I made her specifically for Kaidan. I watched the Renegade FemShep vids and I wanted my own. I also saw the "Renegade romance Kaidan" vids and wanted to do that, too. It was a lot of fun playing her and I loved the dynamic between her and Kaidan. Opposites attract indeed.

Re-reading all that before I hit submit makes my realize that I read waaaaaaay too much into this stuff. And, it makes me realize that I don't care.

Modifié par Syrdeth, 04 mai 2012 - 11:04 .

[Tup3x]

sagequeen wrote...

 okay, so know this is Kaidan's VA and not Jen Hale, but still. this tweet is sort of making me happy:

https://twitter.com/...520757251350528 

*sage swings wildly from hope to despair re: the EC. don't mind me....*

(also, i imagine that was meant to say 'recording'. though maybe sbarge is now on the re-coding team as well?)

Nice find! Sound promising.

It's this time of the year again...

[draken-heart]

Aipex8 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Aipex8 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

maybe in general, but there maybe people that do not approve, not religious freaks but traditionalists
and the Nef journal in ME2 where she is shocked by her attraction  to Morinth is an indication that it is still quite uncommon for people to like the same Gender. Same could be said of a gay fem!Shepard who stayed in the closet, she may have been shocked about liking another female that way and put it away as a "stupid girl crush"

Just because Nef is shocked that she's attracted to a female doesn't mean that it's frowned on by society or uncommon. It just means that she thought she was straight and suddenly she wasn't. That would shock me too, doesn't mean I frown upon homosexuality.

Nika, on the other hand, was always gay and was quite attracted to Liara because she appeared to be female regardless of the science behind the scene or BW's PR statements.

like i said, there maybe some out there who disapprove of it, wasnot saying there are or have to be. you got to admit, if i, a dude like another guy and lived in the ME universe i'd keep it a secret because of how wierd it sounds.

not saying Shepard would be afraid to come out, just that she might not due to her thinking it is crazy to like her own gender.

It's not weird or crazy for a person to be gay. And while it is a struggle for acceptance today, I'm sure in 100+ years it won't be.

Played ME1 and talked about Liara's interest in fem!Shepard. Shepard seems wierded out about the idea because, in Shepard's words "we're both women" (she and Liara, not you and i). that makes me think that Shepard if Liara is not romanced, might be either straight, or a closet homosexual who thinks the idea of her being with Liara, an Asari (all female alien race) was crazy

but let's agree to disagree and drop this issue. maybe in 100 years it wont be an issue, but Shepard may try to play it off because in her mind, the idea is just crazy or it is just a phase.

Modifié par draken-heart, 04 mai 2012 - 11:05 .

[YourFunnyUncle]

Sorry but I don't buy the comparison of Asari with known life that reproduces by parthenogenesis. Genetic material from another individual is necessary and does more than just stimulate reproduction of a clone: It actively alters the genetic makeup of the child without actually adding genes of its own. This is clearly not the same as any known system of reproduction including parthenogenesis. It is something that has no analogue in terrestrial biology.

Also, the females that reproduce by parthenogenesis on earth are either part of or have evolved from species with two sexes. As far as I know, we've not been told that this is the case with Asari biology. It seems to me that theirs is a different system of reproduction that requires different definitions. Anyway, as has been stated, this is the femshep thread not the Asari biology thread so I'm going to leave this here.

Modifié par YourFunnyUncle, 04 mai 2012 - 11:06 .

[SilentK]

Tup3xi wrote...
Nice find! Sound promising.

It's this time of the year again... 

* snip awesome comic *

Bwa ha ha!!

Thank U for that one   =)    awesome!!

Coming from a family with Swedish/Finnish hockey-maniacs, lol

And FemShep looks great i   =)

[ipgd]

YourFunnyUncle wrote...

Sorry but I don't buy the comparison of Asari with known life that reproduces by parthenogenesis. Genetic material from another individual is necessary and does more than just stimulate reproduction of a clone: It actively alters the genetic makeup of the child without actually adding genes of its own. This is clearly not the same as any known system of reproduction including parthenogenesis. It is something that has no analogue in terrestrial biology.

The partner in an Asari melding is essentially just a hash salt to the genetic recombination. Nothing genetic from the melding partner is actually contributed to the offspring; all of the actual genes in the offspring are from the mother. Animal species like the New Mexico whiptail!!! also exhibit mock mating rituals where two females will simulate intercourse and standard male/female insemination without any actual sexual reproduction occurring, after which the asexual reproduction is induced. 
This is practically prototypical parthenogenetic reproduction. 

Also, the females that reproduce by parthenogenesis on earth are either part of or have evolved from species with two sexes. As far as I know, we've not been told that this is the case with Asari biology. It seems to me that theirs is a different system of reproduction that requires different definitions. Anyway, as has been stated, this is the femshep thread not the Asari biology thread so I'm going to leave this here.

The asari meet literally every biological definition of being female sexed, in addition to having extremely visible female secondary sexual characteristics. This is not an issue of a cultural gender construct, they are unambiguously female in a biological sense. look at this goddamn vagina

asari have vaginas

if female shepard wants to have sexual intercourse with liara's female asari vagina she is either a lesbian or a bisexual

Modifié par ipgd, 04 mai 2012 - 11:37 .

[Tup3x]

SilentK wrote...

Tup3xi wrote...
Nice find! Sound promising.

It's this time of the year again...

* snip awesome comic *

Bwa ha ha!!

Thank U for that one   =)    awesome!!

Coming from a family with Swedish/Finnish hockey-maniacs, lol

And FemShep looks great i   =)

Thanks!

[mellifera]

Wow, they spent more time on banshee...nethers... than they did on Tali's face. Bioware...

Modifié par yukidama, 04 mai 2012 - 11:49 .

[meonlyred]

Found some of my graveyard Shepards...

http://cloud.steampo...F3418F47821E00/

http://cloud.steampo...5316340A30E1EF/

http://cloud.steampo...CB92375610C7B3/

http://cloud.steampo...C52B4B49F298D0/

[YourFunnyUncle]

I'm not going to argue the point any more about Asari reproduction. I've made my case.

On topic, here's Sam talking to Executor Pallin.
http://cloud.steampo...93860FF915A571/

[JamieCOTC]

Vanguard heavy melee.


Readying a shockwave.


Cerberus stooge rocketed toward the wall after a Vanguard charge.


UJ trying to hold in a deep sigh.


Ashley banging her helmet against the wall.

[ADLegend21]

awww Poor ashley, she's unable to say anything Romantic to UJ. and i see UJ checking Samantha out

[raziel1980]

Hmmm... lots of convos went in here over the past couple of days so i'll start with this...

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

ELE08 wrote...

"Welcome aboard, Dr T'Soni"

Liara: "...sorry, I was lost in your eyes..."

[crew files out quietly] :innocent:

EDIT: Whoops - ToP - Well have a new Lia shot w/updated textures. Working on some ME1/2/3 comparison shots as we speak.

http://api.ning.com/...50400173470.png

ELE : I think you know how much I love this new femshep of yours already...
LOL DJ! 

and MAN-SQUEES!!!! for seeing Lia show up again! 

Aipex8 wrote...

New colors have been uploaded to the project!
http://social.biowar...m/project/8262/

Gray camo on gray with red piping
/snip
Blue camo on navy with blue piping (as requested by ELE08)
/snip

Gray camo on red with gold piping
/snip

Blue and white doctor (for those who don't wear the science uniform, but might want Chakwas a little less Cerberus looking)
/snip

Enjoy!

AWESOME...My femsheps will be rocking these at various points throughout their games from now on! 

ELE08 wrote...

Shameless self-promotion in-coming.

New texmods posted. In addition to a texture improvement project, it's partly a continuity project to maintain consistent visual quality through all 3 games.

Covers ME1-3.
HD Face Texture
HD Eyes
Natural Eyelashes

/snips

Nice ELE...even more awesome texmods from you? YES, PLEASE!  

Kyrene wrote...

Dunno if these have been posted yet (obviously and sadly no Thane/Jacob ones):


/snips
by artist neehs on deviantART

Never seen these before either... I'm partial to this one for obvious reasons...LOL. 

LadyAly wrote...

Chiara time for a bit this evening

Don't make her angry ;P



/snips pics n tex sorry...

Ohh WOW...she's AWESOME... i like her alot...not to mention that scene is HILARIOUS for the facial expression alone!  

meonlyred wrote...

Found some of my graveyard Shepards...

/snips pretty sheps sorry

http://cloud.steampo...CB92375610C7B3/

/snips again...

And people say I have talent with the character creator...where ave you been hiding these beauties??? 

And yes, I like the one I didn't snip most of all! <3

Modifié par raziel1980, 05 mai 2012 - 01:08 .

[upsettingshorts]

YourFunnyUncle wrote...

Oh I see.  Your call.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 05 mai 2012 - 01:09 .

[meonlyred]

@raziel1980
I was doing the 9 Shepard face challenge got to five and meandered off.

The one you didn't snip is a 4.
451.Q9M.BDG.F6D.HHL.19W.19A.A1C.KD1.5E7.2G6.122

I only have that one face code. I lose all the other ones when my computer choked and died.