158 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

I don't think the Elves should be particularly close to nature. Beyond the practical skills that are necessary for nomads, anyway.

Modifié par Wulfram, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:02 .

[TEWR]

Ponendus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I said on another thread that Elves can't just be humans with pointy ears. That does not mean they should turn into amorphous, eight-limbed blob monsters with carrots for noses and antlers on their head. It just means that they can't always be "humans with pointy ears".

Why can't they? I don't understand. They are often humans with pointy ears in dozens of other games and it works fine. That is the image people often have of a traditional elf (i personally describe them as 'beautiful' humans with pointy ears)? What exactly is the issue with that?

It tends to just get stale for people.

Also, Elves have never held to a uniform standard of appearance. Throughout history, what Elves have looked like in stories has differed greatly.

So there is no real need for them to just be "humans with pointy ears" in any form of media. DAII's Elves aren't just humans with pointy ears.

They have significant differences to make one not believe they're an Elf if you look at them, while still remaining beautiful and humanoid. Obviously opinions differ on that last point amongst the forumites/players, but the Thedosians still see them as beautiful.

As evidenced by Isabela, Kelder (even if he's a sick freak, he still sees them as beautiful), Bran, and Vincento.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

I don't think the Elves should be particularly close to nature. Beyond the practical skills that are necessary for nomads, anyway.

Well, Velanna, Merrill, and other sources point to them being very close to nature.

Just not so close that they stuff their noses in it

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:06 .

[chunkyman]

I hope they re-retcon the looks of the elves in DA3. I would prefer it if they didn't look creepy. Those big saucer eyes and anorexic physique remind me of...

[Wulfram]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well, Velanna, Merrill, and other sources point to them being very close to nature.

Just not so close that they stuff their noses in it

Well, Velanna's closeness to nature mostly amounts to her using plant based magic to kill loads of people, as far as I recall.  Which is OK.  And it's unclear how much of Merrill's Merillness is down to her being Merrill, and how much is to her being Dalish.

But it's true that there is indeed some sort of trend in that direction.  I just happen to rather dislike that trend.

[Ponendus]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ponendus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I said on another thread that Elves can't just be humans with pointy ears. That does not mean they should turn into amorphous, eight-limbed blob monsters with carrots for noses and antlers on their head. It just means that they can't always be "humans with pointy ears".

Why can't they? I don't understand. They are often humans with pointy ears in dozens of other games and it works fine. That is the image people often have of a traditional elf (i personally describe them as 'beautiful' humans with pointy ears)? What exactly is the issue with that?

It tends to just get stale for people.

Also, Elves have never held to a uniform standard of appearance. Throughout history, what Elves have looked like in stories has differed greatly.

So there is no real need for them to just be "humans with pointy ears" in any form of media. DAII's Elves aren't just humans with pointy ears.

They have significant differences to make one not believe they're an Elf if you look at them, while still remaining beautiful and humanoid. Obviously opinions differ on that last point amongst the forumites/players, but the Thedosians still see them as beautiful.

As evidenced by Isabela, Kelder (even if he's a sick freak, he still sees them as beautiful), Bran, and Vincento.

I see. I suppose if it is a matter of opinion that's fine. I worry that BioWare is a little preoccupied with this 'unique look' they seem to be after for their main characters that it is filtering through to other aspects of the world. Sometimes I think going the 'traditional' or 'popular' route has it's benefits. I don't see a need to make the elves unique, and I found the DA2 elves so desperate to be different they appeared very ugly to me.

However, as you say, to each his own.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Well, Velanna, Merrill, and other sources point to them being very close to nature.

Just not so close that they stuff their noses in it

Well, Velanna's closeness to nature mostly amounts to her using plant based magic to kill loads of people, as far as I recall.  Which is OK.  And it's unclear how much of Merrill's Merillness is down to her being Merrill, and how much is to her being Dalish.

But it's true that there is indeed some sort of trend in that direction.  I just happen to rather dislike that trend.

At least for here it's due to them being a representation of Native American lifestyles and not just because "they're Elves yo".

And since they are representative of Native American culture, I hope to see it continue later on.

[Wulfram]

Well, I don't really think they should be particularly representative of Native American culture either.

[greekmonkey95]

Please



And thank you.

[CuriousArtemis]

I don't think the elves need a super obvious in-your-face overarching culture which they all share. One thing I love about DA is how they relate our own real life troubles to this wonderful but yet deeply troubled magical world. I tend to equate mages with LGBTQ folks. Both are oppressed in certain cultures simply for being born the way they are. And elves to me are quite simply representative of black and brown people around the world, abused by those in power (whites in western Europe and America) for no particular reason ... not for their culture or anything because they don't necessarily have a unified culture. There is no rhyme and reason behind racism. I don't want BW to create a reason why humans discriminate against elves ... it would give credence to that discrimination.

Now, as for actual black and brown people in Dragon Age, it would be nice to actually see some, other than the one guard and one armorer in Lowtown...

[greekmonkey95]

THIS!

[Ivers0803]

The eyes are not really an issue for me because in the Stolen Throne, if a recall correctly, elves are described to have large eyes that allow them to see in the dark better than men.

[TEWR]

Wulfram wrote...

Well, I don't really think they should be particularly representative of Native American culture either.

We'll have to agree to disagree then, as I love how they're representative of my Native American heritage.

[CuriousArtemis]

FYI: The more common appellation is American Indian, Indian, or First Nation.

[TEWR]

motomotogirl wrote...

FYI: The more common appellation is American Indian, Indian, or First Nation.

I've heard a few of my friends with the same heritage use Native American to describe themselves. Really, it doesn't matter to me what term is used so long as it isn't derogatory .


EDIT: Also, regarding the Darkspawn is it possible for someone to import the DAII style into DAO and then try and use my proposed ideas to see what they could look like?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:02 .

[craigdolphin]

I agree with the OP that the Dalish ought to have a more recognizable culture that is embodied in their clothing, art, and worldview. And Native American-motifs in that design would be interesting although I felt there was already some of that with the Chasind.

That said, I truly hate what the new art style has wrought with their physical appearance. Obviously that's a subjective opinion. Personally, I agree with the poster that said they wanted the elves to look like 'beautiful humans with pointy ears'.

Yes, it has become a generic, cliche vision of what elves are supposed to look like.

But, so what?

The devs were fond of saying these changes to DA were an 'evolution' of the genre. Well, in evolution, some forms remain remarkably constant over millions of years. Sharks for example. Sharks from the devonian period are immediately recognizable as being sharks to people today. Why? Because that rough phenotype (physical form) tends to be good enough that deviations from it are /usually/ less fit than the original. Minor variations exist, but major departures are much more rare (rays would be one example of a major deviation from the shark form that have actually propsered)

And the same is true in gaming. As one developer recently said in an interview "A cliché is a cliché because has proved to be popular. People like clichés." (http://www.rockpaper...der/#more-90936)

Beautiful human-type elves are generic because the concept has prospered in the marketplace over time (a form of selective pressure). So my hope is that the art style of DA will revert to something more akin to DAO.

[cid_666]

No estoy de acuerdo del todo, Merrill rsta bien hecha sierto que es de las pocas, pero no todos los elfos tienen el mismo aspecto(Compendio de Monstruos de la DragonLance y Ravenloft de Dungeons & Dragons) y Fenris es una gran ayuda en combate a parte de ser un ejemplo claro de los elfos qe salen en lo antes mencinado.

[cid_666]

En cuanto a los Engendros Tenbroso despues de una Guerra siemore quedan los vencedores y aunque fueron practicamente extingidos propagan su maldicion, como los zombies en las peliculas de George A, Romero y las secuelas hachas por otros directores..es logico que no se hayan extingido y aunque tendrian que tener nejor graficos su principal falloe sque hasta enPeadilla son tan faciles de matae como los Ogros hasta con un nivel no muy alto,,,

[cid_666]

Encuanto alos engendros tenbroso...propagan su maldicion como los zombis, es logico que sigan extiendo...lo malo es la faxilidad con que mueren como los ors conhasta teniendo nivel no muy alto en cualquier opcion de dificultad.Cierto que podrian tener mejor..."aspecto".. mas calidad

[Heimdall]

The pointy eared human look comes from Tolkein and has become the most famous and popular variant for many years. Ironically, he never described his elves as having pointy ears. He described them as unusually tall, often dark haired, and having leaf shaped ears. The pointy thing came in because a maple leaf shaped ear would be... strange.

I did not mind the new design much, I would just prefer the elves be less slight in build because the females look like they have no shoulders.

[Patchwork]

IMO Bioware needs to find a happy medium between Origins' short humans with pointy ears and the uncanny valley elves of DA2. Personally I would keep most of the features, the fragile look, but tone them down.

[tmp7704]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I like how Kingdoms of Amalur's elves look. Let me grab an image(in game) and lets see if I can say what I'd like to be done to turn it into a likeable DA elf(for me)-



Now then, some changes for DA-

Skin color would have to stay as it is in the DA games(you know, NATURAL).
Eyes would have to go back to a human size. I dunno whats with the huge eye craze.

But her appearance is distinctly elven. As far as attire is concerned, look to these two links-

http://www.amalur.co...gdoms/ljosalfar
http://www.amalur.co...gdoms/dokkalfar

Yes! Those links have Elves have their own visual style for their attire! That's what I want DA Elves to do! I want them to have their own visual style of clothing/armor that is a semblance to the four cultures they imitate.

I can't help but point out the character on that screenshot is very much "a human with pointy ears, wearing a leather bikini". And the clothes of characters in provided links strike me as absolutely generic furs and "dark wizard" robes.

In other words, this enthusiastic "Yes!" is rather mindboggling given the nature of initial complaint.

[TEWR]

I wasn't directing the yes towards the picture, but towards the links.

The picture was just meh to me.

[CuriousArtemis]

Er, but the second link has the girl in some weird kind of hooker get-up ... she isn't even wearing pants. I'm not entirely sure she has underwear on. How is her outfit a unique representation of her culture? Are they pointy-eared vampires who keep their women as hookers?