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[khronus Arkanus]

Hey guys, I've been going through spell descritpions to learn a bit more about them as I level my party through BG1.

I'm a bit confused about the difference (if there's any) between remove magic and dispell magic.
They seem to do the same, with the difference that dispell can actually remove buffs I will have on my characters.

Is it worth using dispel at all? The only cases where I think it would be useful is if my melee characters all get hold person on them, or rigid thinking, so I can dispel it (although I would dispell buffs too). Is that the best way to deal with removing bad spells on my party members?

Any help on this will be appreciated

Thx

[Redcoat]

That's pretty much it: Dispel Magic is useful for both removing buffs from enemies and removing negative magical effects from your own party members, like Charm and Confusion. It will also remove buffs like Haste from party members, so if you want to remove magic only from enemies, Remove Magic is the way to go.

[Grimwald the Wise]

There are situations where you could remove the buffs of the opposition with one party member and then use potion of invisibilty. (If they are pre-buffed) and then buff your own party. You might have to leave one party member in sight of the opposition whilst you buff the others.

[Incantatar]

Both are bugged in Vanilla btw. There is no random chance involved, it will always dispel effects cast by a lower level caster and never effects cast by a higher level caster. G3 Fixpack does not fix this, only ToBEX (e.g. bundled with SCSII) and Taimon's Hacks (e.g. in Spell Revisions).

[Thunderdwarf]

Incantatar wrote...

Both are bugged in Vanilla btw. There is no random chance involved, it will always dispel effects cast by a lower level caster and never effects cast by a higher level caster. G3 Fixpack does not fix this, only ToBEX (e.g. bundled with SCSII) and Taimon's Hacks (e.g. in Spell Revisions).

This makes Keldorn's dispelling all the more powerful, since he dispells at double his level (I think)

[silenceall]

I believe the actual behaviour of Dispel/Remove is documented here and there is a near zero chance a lower level cast of dispel/remove is successful: http://forums.gibber...showtopic=17799

As I understand it, there are many things that fix it, including Spell Revisions which can be found here (oops, didn't realize Taimon's Hacks is what is in SR - apparently I'm having trouble reading entire posts again):
http://www.gibberlin...l_rev/index.php
Note that SR is modular and the remove/dispel fix can be installed on it's own without the other components.

[polytope]

khronus Arkanus wrote...

Is it worth using dispel at all? The only cases where I think it would be useful is if my melee characters all get hold person on them, or rigid thinking, so I can dispel it (although I would dispell buffs too). Is that the best way to deal with removing bad spells on my party members?

If your party gets held or stunned, use Remove Paralysis, if slowed use Haste, if confused you can use Greater Restoration (vanilla ToB makes it affect the entire party, very overpowered actually). The only use I can think of for dispel on your own PC's is if they're unconscious or charmed, or affected by Aec-Letec's gaze in BG1 (and arrows of dispelling or staff of the magi are a better way to remove it from individual characters).

[Gate70]

polytope wrote...
If your party gets held or stunned, use Remove Paralysis, if slowed use Haste, if confused you can use Greater Restoration (vanilla ToB makes it affect the entire party, very overpowered actually).

Interesting, I need to start using remove paralysis instead of dispelling buffs too. I don't usually bother with slow/haste but again think I should. I hadn't picked up on greater restoration affecting confusion, guess the trade-off is cost of the scroll (or to a lesser extent the use of a spell slot) and the fatigue effect related to casting.

[BelgarathMTH]

The unfortunate dispelling of friendly buffs is what makes Dispel Magic virtually useless at worst, and very dangerous at best, through most of SoA and ToB. It especially reduces the value of Inquisitor Dispel. Getting rid of enemy buffs is nice, but costing your party Chaotic Commands or Haste at a critical moment can mean party wipe.

[Incantatar]

BelgarathMTH wrote...

The unfortunate dispelling of friendly buffs is what makes Dispel Magic virtually useless at worst, and very dangerous at best, through most of SoA and ToB. It especially reduces the value of Inquisitor Dispel. Getting rid of enemy buffs is nice, but costing your party Chaotic Commands or Haste at a critical moment can mean party wipe.

You need to aim well or throw it at the start of combat.