440 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

It doesn't take that much for the DA to return to aid you in ME3.

[Dewart]

ParagonForLife wrote...

the D.A is more powerful then a reaper....as it takes hits from dozen of geth ships for several mins while sovereign dies from like 10 ships in less then what 40 seconds?

It does look like that but the lapses in time between cutscenes and gameplay from when shepard finds/travels through the conduit on to the end is all wonky. It's really hard to accurately tell how long anything takes form that point on.
It's kinda like in movies where they have a bomb about to explode and it only has a minute left on the clock. the hero always goes through some battle and ends up defusing the bomb with one second left on the timer. That "minute" on the clock always tends to be like 8-10 minutes of movie footage in real time. so many of Arnolds characters should have definatly exploded lol

[incinerator950]

This is where logic, beliefs, and then metagaming come in.

Sovereign would have won if not for Shepard. The Normandy striking the Death Blow was to just emphasize the strength of the Normandy as a Symbol. Had Sovereign not lost control via the destroyed Saren husk, he would have eradicated the Alliance Fleet.

While not committing anything to save the Council, the Geth could have reversed and attacked the Alliance Fleet from behind. By destroying the Geth, you have a better chance at knocking out Sovereign. As well, the Renegade ending shows remaining Turian Cruisers. Any losses in the Alliance position were few, losing more cruisers to Sovereign then the Geth. The Turians lost twenty cruisers, the Alliance lost eight.

To reiterate the importance, it doesn't matter how many alliance or Turian Ships made it. There weren't enough in either fleet. Shepard stopped Sovereign, not the Alliance fleet.

Saving the Destiny Ascension gives the human powers more backing, and gives you an anchor to use against the Citadel races. As well, a powerful Dreadnought like the Destiny Ascension might prove more useful then another eight alliance cruisers in the future.

Just ideas, I saved it on account neither option would have really mattered in terms of killing Sovereign, I just saw a future opportunity. Saving Kirrahe gained you an Ally in the STG. Saving the Matriarch Captain and her crew will probably gain you another. The Council will respect you, even if they're too scared to want to.

[Icemix]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, you are wrong.
Read what Vigis said. Take note of what he said his file does. He LITERALY sez it will buy you some time and grant Shep TEMPORARY control.
"moments" to use the exact word Vigil used.

OR are you saing vigil has no idea what his own file is doing?

Sovereign was already attached to the Citadel for minutes before Shep even walks into the room. What was Saren doing all that time?

seriously......

Seriously dude, it seems like you are the one not reading anything. Saren's mission is to use the Conduit, bypass CItadel security and give full control to Sovereign via the master control unit, BUT Shepard gets there just in time to interupt him, thus Sovereign never had any access to the Citadel. That's why he uses so much energy to control Saren, in a last-ditch effort to actually gain control of the Citadel. The race againts time ends when you get to Saren, after that it doesn't matter how long the fight outside takes. Please check your ****ing facts before you start shoving your stupid opinion down people's throats.

I see it's useless to debate this with you. You ignore the game, the text, the dialogue.
Vigils and Sarens lines apparently mean nothing to you.
Shepard uses Vigils data file - which, if Sovereign can't take control any other way would be useless.
Saren clearly states "in a few moments, Sovereign will have compelte control" - he already transfered the controls

The irony of you askign me to check the facts is staggering. Learn to read. Learn to reason.

Are you retarded or something? By the time you get to Saren he has yet to transfer control to Sovereign, he shoots himselp and thus the threat of Sovereign opening up the Citadel relay is over. The data file from Vigil is used to give you a chance at killing Sovereign, its not like a ****ing firewall that gives you time. When you have to make the call, you have full control, Sovereign is not doing anything, the choise is all about how to deal with him, not a race againts time. If we follow your false theory, why the hell would he bother with using all of his energy controlling Saren, leaving him vulnerable if he could just hold off the Alliance by the time he has "taken the control" of the Citadel relay.
The game proves you wrong, the writers prove you wrong, and yet you still keep on defending this retarded theory. Please go freaking play the game again and this time pay attention.

[Dewart]

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, you are wrong.
Read what Vigis said. Take note of what he said his file does. He LITERALY sez it will buy you some time and grant Shep TEMPORARY control.
"moments" to use the exact word Vigil used.

OR are you saing vigil has no idea what his own file is doing?

Sovereign was already attached to the Citadel for minutes before Shep even walks into the room. What was Saren doing all that time?

seriously......

Seriously dude, it seems like you are the one not reading anything. Saren's mission is to use the Conduit, bypass CItadel security and give full control to Sovereign via the master control unit, BUT Shepard gets there just in time to interupt him, thus Sovereign never had any access to the Citadel. That's why he uses so much energy to control Saren, in a last-ditch effort to actually gain control of the Citadel. The race againts time ends when you get to Saren, after that it doesn't matter how long the fight outside takes. Please check your ****ing facts before you start shoving your stupid opinion down people's throats.

I see it's useless to debate this with you. You ignore the game, the text, the dialogue.
Vigils and Sarens lines apparently mean nothing to you.
Shepard uses Vigils data file - which, if Sovereign can't take control any other way would be useless.
Saren clearly states "in a few moments, Sovereign will have compelte control" - he already transfered the controls

The irony of you askign me to check the facts is staggering. Learn to read. Learn to reason.

Are you retarded or something? By the time you get to Saren he has yet to transfer control to Sovereign, he shoots himselp and thus the threat of Sovereign opening up the Citadel relay is over. The data file from Vigil is used to give you a chance at killing Sovereign, its not like a ****ing firewall that gives you time. When you have to make the call, you have full control, Sovereign is not doing anything, the choise is all about how to deal with him, not a race againts time. If we follow your false theory, why the hell would he bother with using all of his energy controlling Saren, leaving him vulnerable if he could just hold off the Alliance by the time he has "taken the control" of the Citadel relay.
The game proves you wrong, the writers prove you wrong, and yet you still keep on defending this retarded theory. Please go freaking play the game again and this time pay attention.

I just watched some you tube and yeah vigil clearly states that the data file only gives temporary control. Also the cutscene with saren he does say "in a few minutes soverign will have full control". Shepard does gain control of the station but judging from the cutscene with vigil and the cutscene with saren it would imply that soverign would be fighting the control of vigil's data file. Since Shepard is told by Vigil that the data file is only temporary obviously shepard would assume he does not have a lot of time before soverign has control of the station. Next comes the ascension decision and then the final battle happens after that.

so basically yeah even though he's kind of rude about it Lotion Soronnar is actually correct.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
"
It's about winning the battle not the war." Indeed, but if you want to win any battles you must first make sure you don't lose the entire war before a battle can be won yes?

What do I mean by that?
If Sovereign had the time he would have opened the relay and all the Reapers would have come through. They would have taken the Cidadel locked down the Relay network and begun the cycle all over again. Trillions of lives would have been lost before any battle could be won.

That's how I'm weighing it. Risk all that happening or sacrafice 10,003 people to ensure that it doesn't.

You're not really ensuring anything when you're sacrificing that crew. Sovereign could have wiped the floor with those Alliance ships, and he nearly did.

Which you don't know. So it's pointless. You don't how tough Sovereign is (and no one expected it to be THAT though).

What you do is go for the best chance of sucess - not risk lowering your chance of sucess for the sake of a few politicians.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I see it's useless to debate this with you. You ignore the game, the text, the dialogue.
Vigils and Sarens lines apparently mean nothing to you.
Shepard uses Vigils data file - which, if Sovereign can't take control any other way would be useless.
Saren clearly states "in a few moments, Sovereign will have compelte control" - he already transfered the controls

The irony of you askign me to check the facts is staggering. Learn to read. Learn to reason.

Are you retarded or something? By the time you get to Saren he has yet to transfer control to Sovereign, he shoots himselp and thus the threat of Sovereign opening up the Citadel relay is over. The data file from Vigil is used to give you a chance at killing Sovereign, its not like a ****ing firewall that gives you time. When you have to make the call, you have full control, Sovereign is not doing anything, the choise is all about how to deal with him, not a race againts time. If we follow your false theory, why the hell would he bother with using all of his energy controlling Saren, leaving him vulnerable if he could just hold off the Alliance by the time he has "taken the control" of the Citadel relay.
The game proves you wrong, the writers prove you wrong, and yet you still keep on defending this retarded theory. Please go freaking play the game again and this time pay attention.

No, the game proves YOU wrong.

You have TEMPORARY control thanks to Vigils file. Vigils tells you so. His DIRECT words.
You have DELAYED Sovereign, not stopped it. Saren tells you so.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 26 janvier 2012 - 10:18 .

[Someone With Mass]

It's pointless because YOU say so?

Sure...

[Icemix]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I see it's useless to debate this with you. You ignore the game, the text, the dialogue.
Vigils and Sarens lines apparently mean nothing to you.
Shepard uses Vigils data file - which, if Sovereign can't take control any other way would be useless.
Saren clearly states "in a few moments, Sovereign will have compelte control" - he already transfered the controls

The irony of you askign me to check the facts is staggering. Learn to read. Learn to reason.

Are you retarded or something? By the time you get to Saren he has yet to transfer control to Sovereign, he shoots himselp and thus the threat of Sovereign opening up the Citadel relay is over. The data file from Vigil is used to give you a chance at killing Sovereign, its not like a ****ing firewall that gives you time. When you have to make the call, you have full control, Sovereign is not doing anything, the choise is all about how to deal with him, not a race againts time. If we follow your false theory, why the hell would he bother with using all of his energy controlling Saren, leaving him vulnerable if he could just hold off the Alliance by the time he has "taken the control" of the Citadel relay.
The game proves you wrong, the writers prove you wrong, and yet you still keep on defending this retarded theory. Please go freaking play the game again and this time pay attention.

No, the game proves YOU wrong.

You have TEMPORARY control thanks to Vigils file. Vigils tells you so. His DIRECT words.
You have DELAYED Sovereign, not stopped it. Saren tells you so.

You misunderstand what Saren and Vigil say. Saren says that because you interupt him and he is confident that he is going to finish the job. Vigil says "temporary" just to make it clear that its not permanent. Don't try to link the 2 in an effort to justify your decision to leave the DA and the Council just because you think there is some imaginary time frame in which you have to act to stop Sovereign. If what you think is true, Sovereign would have not used his energy to control Saren, he would have just stood there and taken on the entire fleet, because he obviously can, and when this "temporary control" of yours wares off he would open the relay and its game over. Like i said twice now, go play the game again, pay attention and use your common sense.

[AlexXIV]

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I see it's useless to debate this with you. You ignore the game, the text, the dialogue.
Vigils and Sarens lines apparently mean nothing to you.
Shepard uses Vigils data file - which, if Sovereign can't take control any other way would be useless.
Saren clearly states "in a few moments, Sovereign will have compelte control" - he already transfered the controls

The irony of you askign me to check the facts is staggering. Learn to read. Learn to reason.

Are you retarded or something? By the time you get to Saren he has yet to transfer control to Sovereign, he shoots himselp and thus the threat of Sovereign opening up the Citadel relay is over. The data file from Vigil is used to give you a chance at killing Sovereign, its not like a ****ing firewall that gives you time. When you have to make the call, you have full control, Sovereign is not doing anything, the choise is all about how to deal with him, not a race againts time. If we follow your false theory, why the hell would he bother with using all of his energy controlling Saren, leaving him vulnerable if he could just hold off the Alliance by the time he has "taken the control" of the Citadel relay.
The game proves you wrong, the writers prove you wrong, and yet you still keep on defending this retarded theory. Please go freaking play the game again and this time pay attention.

No, the game proves YOU wrong.

You have TEMPORARY control thanks to Vigils file. Vigils tells you so. His DIRECT words.
You have DELAYED Sovereign, not stopped it. Saren tells you so.

You misunderstand what Saren and Vigil say. Saren says that because you interupt him and he is confident that he is going to finish the job. Vigil says "temporary" just to make it clear that its not permanent. Don't try to link the 2 in an effort to justify your decision to leave the DA and the Council just because you think there is some imaginary time frame in which you have to act to stop Sovereign. If what you think is true, Sovereign would have not used his energy to control Saren, he would have just stood there and taken on the entire fleet, because he obviously can, and when this "temporary control" of yours wares off he would open the relay and its game over. Like i said twice now, go play the game again, pay attention and use your common sense.

Sorry but you also are only interepreting things your way. Vigil says temporary and you say he means that it won't last for the end of time and not that Sovereign can override it anyway. Which makes alot of sense considering the Citadel is built by the Reapers. I mean what are the chances that the Protheans can hack the Citadel in a way that the Reapers can never control it again and why didn't they do it sooner then? They could have done it thousands of years before and Shepard would not be necessary to stop Sovereign.

He probably didn't want to take on the whole fleet because he underestimated Shepard. Reapers have a god complex so probably Sovereing didn't really consider Shepard beating him was a likely outcome. And tbh we don't really know what Shep's chances were. Granted, on easy level the gameplay mechanics suggest that Shepard's chances to win were better than Sovereign's, but gameplay does not equal story. I'd assume what Shep and his crew do in the last fight borders a miracle.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 26 janvier 2012 - 11:47 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's pointless because YOU say so?

Sure...

No..Pointless because it is.

By your logic, since we don't know how much punishment Sovy can take, we should go gather the entire human and turian fleet.

Do we have a reason at that point to think an entire fleet can't take on a reaper? No.

It's useless to argue what we don't know or can't know...you can't based decisions on that.

[Dewart]

AlexXIV wrote...

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Icemix wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I see it's useless to debate this with you. You ignore the game, the text, the dialogue.
Vigils and Sarens lines apparently mean nothing to you.
Shepard uses Vigils data file - which, if Sovereign can't take control any other way would be useless.
Saren clearly states "in a few moments, Sovereign will have compelte control" - he already transfered the controls

The irony of you askign me to check the facts is staggering. Learn to read. Learn to reason.

Are you retarded or something? By the time you get to Saren he has yet to transfer control to Sovereign, he shoots himselp and thus the threat of Sovereign opening up the Citadel relay is over. The data file from Vigil is used to give you a chance at killing Sovereign, its not like a ****ing firewall that gives you time. When you have to make the call, you have full control, Sovereign is not doing anything, the choise is all about how to deal with him, not a race againts time. If we follow your false theory, why the hell would he bother with using all of his energy controlling Saren, leaving him vulnerable if he could just hold off the Alliance by the time he has "taken the control" of the Citadel relay.
The game proves you wrong, the writers prove you wrong, and yet you still keep on defending this retarded theory. Please go freaking play the game again and this time pay attention.

No, the game proves YOU wrong.

You have TEMPORARY control thanks to Vigils file. Vigils tells you so. His DIRECT words.
You have DELAYED Sovereign, not stopped it. Saren tells you so.

You misunderstand what Saren and Vigil say. Saren says that because you interupt him and he is confident that he is going to finish the job. Vigil says "temporary" just to make it clear that its not permanent. Don't try to link the 2 in an effort to justify your decision to leave the DA and the Council just because you think there is some imaginary time frame in which you have to act to stop Sovereign. If what you think is true, Sovereign would have not used his energy to control Saren, he would have just stood there and taken on the entire fleet, because he obviously can, and when this "temporary control" of yours wares off he would open the relay and its game over. Like i said twice now, go play the game again, pay attention and use your common sense.

Sorry but you also are only interepreting things your way. Vigil says temporary and you say he means that it won't last for the end of time and not that Sovereign can override it anyway. Which makes alot of sense considering the Citadel is built by the Reapers. I mean what are the chances that the Protheans can hack the Citadel in a way that the Reapers can never control it again and why didn't they do it sooner then? They could have done it thousands of years before and Shepard would not be necessary to stop Sovereign.

He probably didn't want to take on the whole fleet because he underestimated Shepard. Reapers have a god complex so probably Sovereing didn't really consider Shepard beating him was a likely outcome. And tbh we don't really know what Shep's chances were. Granted, on easy level the gameplay mechanics suggest that Shepard's chances to win were better than Sovereign's, but gameplay does not equal story. I'd assume what Shep and his crew do in the last fight borders a miracle.

Agreed. Based on the information Shepard is given (youtube it even. I did) Shep has no idea how much time he has after he gains control of the citadel with Vigil's data file.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No..Pointless because it is.

By your logic, since we don't know how much punishment Sovy can take, we should go gather the entire human and turian fleet.

Do we have a reason at that point to think an entire fleet can't take on a reaper? No.

It's useless to argue what we don't know or can't know...you can't based decisions on that.

Eh, yes. I can base decisions on things I don't/can't know. It's called being cautious.

But I guess you're just throwing that out of the window just because it's a war. Complete anarchy is just fine, as long as it gets the job done, right?

[Lotion Soronarr]

There's a limit to being caution.

After all, you don't know if Saren has death eye beams or if he can mind control you if you get too close.
If you start using things you don't know as an excuse, there's no end.


No, we don't know how much punishment Sovy can take. No, we have no reason to assume at that point he can easily tank the power of an entire fleet.

You don't know - but it doesn't matter. You have to act now. You either have enough firepower or you don't. You attack with what you have, fast and hard.


Wasting time and ships on rescusing a damaged, fleeing ship is a redicolously stupid gamble.

[Poison_Berrie]

Last Vizard wrote...

Fighter bombers equiped with Thanax cannons would be the best weapons against the Reapers, quess which species has the most Carriers?

Power and Heat management says they are better used as one time bomb-drones. But manned fighters in spacebattle's already is a massive headpalm.

 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Manouvering in space. Learn about it.

not only is it not possible for the geth ships to turn around and accelerate fast enough to effectively flank/intercept (delta V), but turning towards teh 5th fleet means turnign away from teh Citadel fleet. Which means the Citadel fleet gets nice, free shots at their rear wihtout taking return fire.

First as I said it's dependant on numbers. Are all Geth ships so embroiled that they can never break off.
I can think of quite a large group that will be freed up from it's target in a short while if you decide to let the DA fend for itself. 
They are shown to be a reasonable group (and if you do attack the fact that your group suffers a number of loses reflects that) which after destroying the DA can actually spare the time to break off and persue your battlegroup. 

You loose fresh ships and get damaged ones. And loose time. Not a good trade-off

Actually your are not losing time, since the DA is destroyed before the citadel arms even open. But that's in hindsight. Though it seems odd the arms open up after whatever happened to the DA has happend.
Still the main issue is to have your flank be protected better. 

You fail to account that Sovereign is within the Citadel. Can the DA even take a shot from it's current position?
Those massive wards/arms effectively block the line of fire.

 
Though the drives may be damaged, that does not equate to them being entirely immobile.
Main drives are supposedly online. It would be very poor show if such a massive ship (let alone any warship) would be without some redundancy. Emergency chemical thrusters, or a simple ion drive. 

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:28 .

[Gabey5]

There are pro's to keeping the council alive

the personal connection

rather than having to speak to random new Councillors

[Dewart]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

There's a limit to being caution.

After all, you don't know if Saren has death eye beams or if he can mind control you if you get too close.
If you start using things you don't know as an excuse, there's no end.


No, we don't know how much punishment Sovy can take. No, we have no reason to assume at that point he can easily tank the power of an entire fleet.

You don't know - but it doesn't matter. You have to act now. You either have enough firepower or you don't. You attack with what you have, fast and hard.


Wasting time and ships on rescusing a damaged, fleeing ship is a redicolously stupid gamble.

a damaged fleeing ship with a big *** gun on it. don't forget that.

Modifié par Dewart, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:58 .

[Stalker]

Save them!
You have to gather the galaxy together in ME3. Not just that the trust in humans courage is a lot higher, you sacrificed human lives to save them. They owe you their assistance for defending earth.

[Annoyed Dragon]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

I hope the meaning behind the choice is that we saved the Destiny Acension & her crew as opposed to just the Council. The captain of the ship who must be fairly high ranking must have gained tons of respect for humans and Shepard in general.

I hope there is a point in Mass Effect 3 where the Council itself refuses to say send the Destiny Ascension in defense of Earth but the Captain basically calls them out saying all the politicians are a bunch of spineless cowards and she would gladly return the favor of being saved in Mass Effect 1.

Basically the whole; Military types are cool & honorable while the politicians are EVIL! thing Bioware has going on.
There is also general Septimus Oraka of the Turians who Shep can choose to help. 

I would think we would see the general again in ME3 when we try to gain the Turians help against the Reapers, though I wonder what he has to save when you first meet him?

[XDMMX]

My opinion is that ME Dreadnoughts are like RL Battleships, overpriced, obsolete pieces of junk for megalomaniacs, that end up being a liability and a waste of resources.

So I let the DA get Vaporized.

Modifié par XDMMX, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:15 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Poison_Berrie wrote...
 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Manouvering in space. Learn about it.

not only is it not possible for the geth ships to turn around and accelerate fast enough to effectively flank/intercept (delta V), but turning towards teh 5th fleet means turnign away from teh Citadel fleet. Which means the Citadel fleet gets nice, free shots at their rear wihtout taking return fire.

First as I said it's dependant on numbers. Are all Geth ships so embroiled that they can never break off.
I can think of quite a large group that will be freed up from it's target in a short while if you decide to let the DA fend for itself. 
They are shown to be a reasonable group (and if you do attack the fact that your group suffers a number of loses reflects that) which after destroying the DA can actually spare the time to break off and persue your battlegroup.

Again, manouvering.
By the time tehy destroy the DA and change course, pick up enough speed to catch up - tehy are either destroyed by fire from otehr friendly ships or probably too late to have any significant impact.

The take out the DA, but waht about it's escort? What about other citadel ships?

You loose fresh ships and get damaged ones. And loose time. Not a good trade-off

Actually your are not losing time, since the DA is destroyed before the citadel arms even open. But that's in hindsight. Though it seems odd the arms open up after whatever happened to the DA has happend.
Still the main issue is to have your flank be protected better.

But you do loose ships.
The flank is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

 

You fail to account that Sovereign is within the Citadel. Can the DA even take a shot from it's current position?
Those massive wards/arms effectively block the line of fire.

 
Though the drives may be damaged, that does not equate to them being entirely immobile.
Main drives are supposedly online. It would be very poor show if such a massive ship (let alone any warship) would be without some redundancy. Emergency chemical thrusters, or a simple ion drive. 

nonono..the main drives are offline.

Adn it's not uncommon for ships to not have redudancy of everything. Take any WW2 warship. They don't have extra engines.
Also, DA was evacuating...fleeing. You think the Council will agree to attack Sovereign in a damaged ship?

[Welsh Inferno]

XDMMX wrote...

So I let the DA get Vaporized.

Along with the 10,000 strong crew.

You gain nothing by letting it be destroyed. Even if you do consider dreadnought's obsolete, the Asari will then just waste resources building more dreadnoughts to replace it anyway.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Dewart wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wasting time and ships on rescusing a damaged, fleeing ship is a redicolously stupid gamble.

a damaged fleeing ship with a big *** gun on it. don't forget that.

[XDMMX]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Along with the 10,000 strong crew.

And how many humans die trying to save the DA? That whole battle just proves how much of a liability dreadnoughts are.

You gain nothing by letting it be destroyed. Even if you do consider dreadnought's obsolete, the Asari will then just waste resources building more dreadnoughts to replace it anyway.

Stupid Asari megalomaniacs and there dreadnoughts.

[incinerator950]

XDMMX wrote...

My opinion is that ME Dreadnoughts are like RL Battleships, overpriced, obsolete pieces of junk for megalomaniacs, that end up being a liability and a waste of resources.

So I let the DA get Vaporized.

While that may hold true, sci-fi universes tend to put an emphasis in their abilities.  Dreadnoughts are still tough.  The obsolete mothballed Iowa class Battleships were taken out of mothball for the Gulf War, over forty years after their prime use.  Why?  They had a position of power as their main guns were still capable of being used to fire past shore and provide Naval Ship to land support.  

A dreadnought is supposed to mop anything that isn't a dreadnought. A coordinated strike of cruisers vs a dreadnought will win, but thats only counting 1v5 or more.  Dreadnoughts were made limited knowing the resources in their use, they're amazing at their job.  Same with Carriers, they're actually equivilant in size to Dreadnoughts.