440 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mr Massakka wrote...
First, the council hasn't helped you in ME2 because there was no threat in their systems. It was just human colonies being attacked, now there is a intergalactic danger (reapers) that also affects them. I expect them to act in ME3.

Second, it's not just the council. Humans as a race are now famous for their courage they proved on the Sovereign attack. Humans will likely be more supported by everyone in the galaxy.

Third, saying that the ships you would have lost with saving them, will be an important assist in ME3 is closeminded. What would 8 (i think it was 8) human cruisers make a difference? There are thousands of ships that you need to defend the galaxy with. 
You loose like 0.01% of the overall fleet that the Mass Effect galaxy has to offer. That's maybe 5% of the alliance fleet.

If 8 cruisers make no difference (and they would in the battle agaisnt Sovereign), then those 3 airheads make even less of a difference. The council would be replaced nad hte galaxy would move on.

And it precisely because everyone would be attacked by the reapers that the relations don't matter much - everyone will have to band together, wether they like it or not.

[Blacklash93]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
If 8 cruisers make no difference (and they would in the battle agaisnt Sovereign), then those 3 airheads make even less of a difference. The council would be replaced nad hte galaxy would move on.

And it precisely because everyone would be attacked by the reapers that the relations don't matter much - everyone will have to band together, wether they like it or not.

Shepard never really specifies whether the cruisers were lost against the Geth or Sovereign. Sovereign destroys 4 in a matter of seconds.

And the point in saving the council is so aliens will trust humanity when the Reapers come and offer help more readily in the battle to take back Earth. Everyone will be brought together before it's too late. You can't band together quickly and efficiently without trust.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 26 janvier 2012 - 04:45 .

[Knubbsal]

I think I'll save the Destiny Ascension even in my future renegade playthrough. It's just a poor space-whale that can't defend itself from up close.

[Stalker]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...
First, the council hasn't helped you in ME2 because there was no threat in their systems. It was just human colonies being attacked, now there is a intergalactic danger (reapers) that also affects them. I expect them to act in ME3.

Second, it's not just the council. Humans as a race are now famous for their courage they proved on the Sovereign attack. Humans will likely be more supported by everyone in the galaxy.

Third, saying that the ships you would have lost with saving them, will be an important assist in ME3 is closeminded. What would 8 (i think it was 8) human cruisers make a difference? There are thousands of ships that you need to defend the galaxy with. 
You loose like 0.01% of the overall fleet that the Mass Effect galaxy has to offer. That's maybe 5% of the alliance fleet.

If 8 cruisers make no difference (and they would in the battle agaisnt Sovereign), then those 3 airheads make even less of a difference. The council would be replaced nad hte galaxy would move on.

And it precisely because everyone would be attacked by the reapers that the relations don't matter much - everyone will have to band together, wether they like it or not.

These 3 airheads are more important for the stability of the galactic politics than a few thousand soldiers are. You also saved hundret thousands of refugees that were on the Ascension. 

The relations are a huge matter in an intergalactic war. The natural reaction of each species in such a war is isolation. Keep the own defenses closed. Why would they risk their own defense-stability for a race they hate eitherway?...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Blacklash93 wrote...
Shepard never really specifies whether the cruisers were lost against the Geth or Sovereign. Sovereign destroys 4 in a matter of seconds.

And the point in saving the council is so aliens will trust humanity when the Reapers come and offer help more readily in the battle to take back Earth. Everyone will be brought together before it's too late. You can't band together quickly and efficiently without trust.

We see 3 get lost to the geth. But Bioware is not good with numbers. Regardless the Citadel choise, you get the same 8 cruiser in ME2.


And the point is that at that point you can't predict the reapers will attack Earth and you will need alien help.
And you can band quickly and efficiently without "trust" when the future of hte galaxy is at stake.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Mr Massakka wrote...
These 3 airheads are more important for the stability of the galactic politics than a few thousand soldiers are. You also saved hundret thousands of refugees that were on the Ascension. 

The relations are a huge matter in an intergalactic war. The natural reaction of each species in such a war is isolation. Keep the own defenses closed. Why would they risk their own defense-stability for a race they hate eitherway?...

Yeah right....stabiltiy of galatic politics...

Relations will matter little. Races will either band together or die alone. There is no choice here. No race can stand alone. Period.

Not to mention that IF Shepard goes for sovereign and the council dies, when the reapers come everyone will realise what Shep did. There won't be any real resentment left.

So no - those 3 airheads aren't that importnat. Politicians come and go. They are easily replacable.

[ParagonForLife]

incinerator950 wrote...

This is where logic, beliefs, and then metagaming come in.

Sovereign would have won if not for Shepard. The Normandy striking the Death Blow was to just emphasize the strength of the Normandy as a Symbol. Had Sovereign not lost control via the destroyed Saren husk, he would have eradicated the Alliance Fleet.

While not committing anything to save the Council, the Geth could have reversed and attacked the Alliance Fleet from behind. By destroying the Geth, you have a better chance at knocking out Sovereign. As well, the Renegade ending shows remaining Turian Cruisers. Any losses in the Alliance position were few, losing more cruisers to Sovereign then the Geth. The Turians lost twenty cruisers, the Alliance lost eight.

To reiterate the importance, it doesn't matter how many alliance or Turian Ships made it. There weren't enough in either fleet. Shepard stopped Sovereign, not the Alliance fleet.

Saving the Destiny Ascension gives the human powers more backing, and gives you an anchor to use against the Citadel races. As well, a powerful Dreadnought like the Destiny Ascension might prove more useful then another eight alliance cruisers in the future.

Just ideas, I saved it on account neither option would have really mattered in terms of killing Sovereign, I just saw a future opportunity. Saving Kirrahe gained you an Ally in the STG. Saving the Matriarch Captain and her crew will probably gain you another. The Council will respect you, even if they're too scared to want to.

no...just no.....they say it many times Sovereign no matter how powerful is just 1 ship honestly he had the ideal location to fight as the alliance had to aim properly as to not hit the citadel and couldnt dodge in the close confines out in the open sovereign whould have died very quickly 

[Lotion Soronarr]

You are beign redicolous.

Sovereign was stationary and docked. It couldn't dodge (a non-moving target it easy to hit) and it couldn't bring all of it's weapons to bear.

To say it is the "ideal location" is so stupid I cannot even beging to describe it. It's the total opposite.


And it was confirmed via Twitter that wihout shep brinign down the shields, the galaxy would have lost a LOT more ships.

[jamesp81]

I always save the DA for two reasons.

One, it's just the way I like to roll.  I also didn't like the idea of having the Alliance fleet engaging a Reaper in front of it with Geth running amok behind it.  Seemed a bad idea to me.

The other, however, is that the cutscene for saving it is much cooler than not saving it. Letting the Geth destroy it just results in a short scene of the ship being destroyed. The 'save the DA' cutscene is more like....

Geth Fleet: LAWL, all ur fleet r belong to us!
Alliance Fleet: SURPRISE, ****ES!

Modifié par jamesp81, 26 janvier 2012 - 07:13 .

[ParagonForLife]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You are beign redicolous.

Sovereign was stationary and docked. It couldn't dodge (a non-moving target it easy to hit) and it couldn't bring all of it's weapons to bear.

To say it is the "ideal location" is so stupid I cannot even beging to describe it. It's the total opposite.


And it was confirmed via Twitter that wihout shep brinign down the shields, the galaxy would have lost a LOT more ships.

it is in the ideal location....there was 0 chance of the alliance ships dodgeing the attack if your fighting an enemy that can kill you in one punch do you want to get close enough to be punched? no you want to use your speed to dodge his punches wait for an opening and strike if you remember the alliance ships didnt move either as there was just no room inside the citadel so yea sovereign had the advantage 

[Ice Cold J]

Half my Sheps saved, half it was destroyed (2 "focused on Sovereign," 1 wanted the Council dead).

I have 2 Sheps who are goodie two shoes, 1 who prefers aliens to humans, 2 who are practical, and 1 who is xenophobic.

I'll let you all figure out who did what.

[angry_peon]

When I played the game for the first time, I did not know what exactly was going on at the time. How many ships faced each other, how far they were appart (I still don't), so I chose the tactic I would use in a strategy game. Concentrating on the closer enemies first, freeing the allied forces up to aid me in the final assault on Sovi. Saving a mighty battleship and the leaders of the galaxy in the process was a nice bonus.
After all I had no idea if the Alliance fleet would have enough fire power to kill sovereign, and there was perhaps only one chance before the Geth would intervene. The situation did not feel close enough (time-wise) to make an all-or-nothing one-try-assault as Saren's plan had just failed.
I figured that the risk of not having enough power (assuming that the Citadel fleet would help me, when I kill off the Geth) against Sovereign was bigger than the risk of having not enough time. How long took the maneuver to resque the DA anyway? Didn't seem to be a very long procedure.

[Ice Cold J]

Varhjhin wrote...

When I played the game for the first time, I did not know what exactly was going on at the time. How many ships faced each other, how far they were appart (I still don't), so I chose the tactic I would use in a strategy game. Concentrating on the closer enemies first, freeing the allied forces up to aid me in the final assault on Sovi. Saving a mighty battleship and the leaders of the galaxy in the process was a nice bonus.
After all I had no idea if the Alliance fleet would have enough fire power to kill sovereign, and there was perhaps only one chance before the Geth would intervene. The situation did not feel close enough (time-wise) to make an all-or-nothing one-try-assault as Saren's plan had just failed.
I figured that the risk of not having enough power (assuming that the Citadel fleet would help me, when I kill off the Geth) against Sovereign was bigger than the risk of having not enough time. How long took the maneuver to resque the DA anyway? Didn't seem to be a very long procedure.

See, I figured the exact opposite. I thought that I'd lose too many ships if I didn't have them focus on Sovereign, so I let the Ascension go.
Funnything is, you figured they'd help you, I figured they'd take off (like they did).
In the end, however, you made the "right" choice.

[seirhart]

Ice Cold J wrote...

Half my Sheps saved, half it was destroyed (2 "focused on Sovereign," 1 wanted the Council dead).

I have 2 Sheps who are goodie two shoes, 1 who prefers aliens to humans, 2 who are practical, and 1 who is xenophobic.

I'll let you all figure out who did what.

I like your choices and I can see why, but for me all of my shepards 20 of them to be exact are pure goody to shoes who always save the council but can't stand his own kind and prefers aliens way before humans.

[RyuujinZERO]

I'm still having trouble grasping how many people reason that it's important to save the council, in order to unite the races in the long run

I'm not denying this isn't the ideal STRATEGY. But it's also a *gamble*, in essence, paragon shep is gambling the fate of the galaxy (trillions of lives!) that Sovereign won't get the gate to dark space open before the Destiny Ascension is saved.

If he was wrong, then saving the council and the opinions of the other races would be a non-issue. As it happens, he was right, but this doesn't change the fact the paragons are gambling with the lives of trillions, and usually it;'s the renegades that have no regard for others ;p

[atheelogos]

Someone With Mass wrote...

atheelogos wrote...
"
It's about winning the battle not the war." Indeed, but if you want to win any battles you must first make sure you don't lose the entire war before a battle can be won yes?

What do I mean by that?
If Sovereign had the time he would have opened the relay and all the Reapers would have come through. They would have taken the Cidadel locked down the Relay network and begun the cycle all over again. Trillions of lives would have been lost before any battle could be won.

That's how I'm weighing it. Risk all that happening or sacrafice 10,003 people to ensure that it doesn't.

You're not really ensuring anything when you're sacrificing that crew. Sovereign could have wiped the floor with those Alliance ships, and he nearly did.

So having less ships would have been better even though he almost took the fleet when it was at full strength?

The fact that he almost won even though we threw everything we had at him only strengthens the argument that more ships were needed to make a difference

Modifié par atheelogos, 27 janvier 2012 - 03:07 .

[DJStarstryker]

I didn't save it. I roleplay my primarily renegade Shepard (I HATE the terms "renegon" and "paragade" used around here) and don't blindly pick renegade or anything. My reason not to save it was 1) I was busy trying to save a LOT more people at the time and 2) the council really grated on my nerves with the whole not believing you and giving you a hard time the whole game thing.

He doesn't really regret it, because he's a kind of guy that's willing to make sacrifices to get things done.

[atheelogos]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

I'm still having trouble grasping how many people reason that it's important to save the council, in order to unite the races in the long run

I'm not denying this isn't the ideal STRATEGY. But it's also a *gamble*, in essence, paragon shep is gambling the fate of the galaxy (trillions of lives!) that Sovereign won't get the gate to dark space open before the Destiny Ascension is saved.

If he was wrong, then saving the council and the opinions of the other races would be a non-issue. As it happens, he was right, but this doesn't change the fact the paragons are gambling with the lives of trillions, and usually it;'s the renegades that have no regard for others ;p

lol well put my friend

[JBONE27]

My Shepard saved the DA because Liara asked her to... How could anyone say no to those big blue... eyes.

[atheelogos]

DJStarstryker wrote...

I didn't save it. I roleplay my primarily renegade Shepard (I HATE the terms "renegon" and "paragade" used around here)
He doesn't really regret it, because he's a kind of guy that's willing to make sacrifices to get things done.

why don't u like the terms?

[atheelogos]

JBONE27 wrote...

My Shepard saved the DA because Liara asked her to... How could anyone say no to those big blue... eyes.

My Shepard sacrificed the DA because Garrus asked him to. How could anyone say no to his infallible logic. lol 

[mango smoothie]

Thargorichiban wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

mango smoothie wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Thargorichiban wrote...
From a logistical standpoint it was much better to save the Destiny Ascension during the Battle of the Citadel than to not. At least when you factor in the upcoming war with the Reapers.

Well, that's forward thinking to be planning for the upcoming war against the Reapers when you haven't even finished off Sovereign yet.

When it comes to war it helps to think several steps ahead for your strategy. It was a risk, but the threat of hundreds of Reapers is much more dangerous than a single one.

Well ignore the actual outcomes for a second, if Sovereign had succeeded because you decided to save the Destiny Acension you would be dealing with hundreds of Reapers right then and there.

Wasn't Saren integral to that plan? Didn't he need to link Sovereign to the Citadel's computers manually for him to call in the rest of the Reapers?

Worst case scenario has Sovereign throwing a hissy fit inside the Citadel if the Alliance fleet is destroyed and possibly destroying the Citadel.

Saren just needed to get in there to keep the arms open until Soveriegn got in, then close them while Sovereign did his job. Sure maybe taking control might slow him down a bit, but the Reapers made the Citadel I think he would be able to acess it no matter what.

Actually Saren was there for more than opening the arms. He was also there to use the Citadel's master control unit to transfer control to Sovereign (which Shepard stopped). Without the transfer Sovereign wouldn't be able to access it.

And I'm not sure if Sovereign would have had a Plan B. The Reapers didn't seem to have one when the Keepers were put out of their control and Sovereign took years to develop Saren as a resource. So I think it is pretty likely that he would have been rendered "helpless" (i.e. not been able to call in his reinforcements) and the invasion wouldn't have started that day.

That being said there would have been millions killed that day instead of thousands if the Alliance fleet had been destroyed. But that is moot point really. You are able to save the Destiny Ascension and retain a better logistical position for the upcoming war.

   While I understand your point, I just refuse to believe that Sovereign wouldn't be able to hack into his own kind's technology. I still think that Vigil's data that gave Shepard control slowed Sovereign down, but he would have been still able to hack into the Citadel relay and open it for the other Reapers.

   Sorry for late reply.

[RyuujinZERO]

atheelogos wrote...

JBONE27 wrote...

My Shepard saved the DA because Liara asked her to... How could anyone say no to those big blue... eyes.

My Shepard sacrificed the DA because Garrus asked him to. How could anyone say no to his infallible logic. lol 

In my game Wrex wanted to kill the council and Ashley wanted to save them... talk about unpredictable xD

...Wrex is the man though. Goooodbye council....

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 27 janvier 2012 - 03:27 .

[Ice Cold J]

seirhart wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

Half my Sheps saved, half it was destroyed (2 "focused on Sovereign," 1 wanted the Council dead).

I have 2 Sheps who are goodie two shoes, 1 who prefers aliens to humans, 2 who are practical, and 1 who is xenophobic.

I'll let you all figure out who did what.

I like your choices and I can see why, but for me all of my shepards 20 of them to be exact are pure goody to shoes who always save the council but can't stand his own kind and prefers aliens way before humans.

I appreciate that. And I agree.

I'm actually basing my other Sheps on friends of mine and what THEY might do, just to get a different outcome.

It's one I don't like making, because I felt like a jerk the three times I didn't say, "YES! SAVE THEM!"

[ParagonForLife]

Yea but saving it makes the turians love you....walk into the citadel talk to turians
Me:hello
Turian: HUMAN!! How are you!!!
Me:good.
Turian: Wait it cant be are you by chance sheppard?
Me: yea.
Turian: You are a credit to your race
Me: *Sparkly eyes* thank you that means alot.