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[What a Succulent Ass]

...Not really. You can never "realise the horrors of war" unless you've been in one.

[Nashiktal]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

bleetman wrote...

There's military justifications for going either way, I'd say. As I mentioned in another thread, my own personal reasoning the times I opted to save it wasn't so much to actually save the ship or the council itself, but to flank and quickly obliterate the geth fleet that arrived with Sovereign whilst it was pre-occupied. The alliance fleet would've been slaughtered if it ended up caught between Sovereign and the geth.

I beg to differ.

The goal isn't to flank the Geth. Sovereign is important.
Either way, the Geth are busy with the Citadel fleet, they can't just flank you.

You could argue you wanted more firepower agaisnt Sovereign, but again - fresh ships vs. damaged ones. Also, since no one actually engaged Sovereign properly there was no way to tell how much firepower would be needed. No way to tell how much time you have to take it out.

Logic dictates to assault with as much force you can bring to bear as fast as you can. Sacrificing either firepower or time needlesly is a downright bad move.

To me, I had no idea if the citadel fleet would have been able to distract the geth suffciently. There was quite a lot of geth attacking the DA itself, and no other ships, and as seen the destiny ascension did not last long.

I had no way of knowing the geth would have simply ignored my fleet while it attacked sovvy, and in my mind the DA would have seen escape as impossible now and move to engage either sovvy, or other geth forces thus solidifying allied positions around the citadel.

In my mind killing those geth before moving to engage sovvy was a tactically sound move. I had what I needed to prevent sovvy from activating the relay, and I did not have a clear picture of the battlefield to make too many assumptions. It was either hit hard and fast and hope sovvy goes down, or do what I can to stabilize the field around me, and for the future. (eliminating those geth, saving the dreadnought, and saving the council).

It was a hard decision I made at the time, and when I saw it succeed I felt quite gratified. Less so now knowing it didn't matter either way, but I still feel I made the right decision.

[Chewin]

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

the cutscene saving the ascension is alot more epic

People showing "Heroism" in  battle tends to make that kind of impact on people.

[AlanC9]

DAO had a choice like this, too. You think you need to sacrifice something in order to keep something really bad from happening, but it turns out that if you take a chance and don't do the sacrifice.... nothing bad happens.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 janvier 2012 - 07:10 .

[BlueMagitek]

Eh, looking back, I think the "Save the Ascension" option should be tied to if you completed some of the optional assignments, like Geth Incursion Espionage Probe, etc. That way the Alliance didn't suffer any losses in doing them on their own.

And maybe tied to the boss fight. Saving the DA = harder boss fight as Sovy has less pressure on him.

[Chewin]

AlanC9 wrote...

DAO had a choice like this, too. You think you need to sacrifice something in order to keep something really bad from happening, but it turns out that if you take a chance and don't do the sacrifice.... nothing bad happens.

And you can only know that after you've made your decision.

[Nashiktal]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Eh, looking back, I think the "Save the Ascension" option should be tied to if you completed some of the optional assignments, like Geth Incursion Espionage Probe, etc. That way the Alliance didn't suffer any losses in doing them on their own.

And maybe tied to the boss fight. Saving the DA = harder boss fight as Sovy has less pressure on him.

I can agree with the general idea here. I always liked the idea of what I am doing at any time is doing something in the long run. Keep the big choices the same, but make the environment of which the choice takes place be dependent on what you did, or didn't do beforehand.

Your geth example is a good one. With so much damage done to the geth invasion force, maybe the DA didn't need saving, or if it did other citadel forces are available to hold the line instead. Thus making a concetrate on sovvy possible without losing the DA.

[Pacifien]

I leave the Destiny Ascension to its fate. I think the Turian Councillor would have been so proud of me, choosing the mission over saving one crippled ship. That's all I ever wanted, the Turian Councillor's love and respect. I just wanted to hear him say "Commander Shepard.... I am so proud of y--" and then he gets cut off because, you know, the ship explodes.

[Medhia Nox]

Blah blah - largest ship created by organics... ever.

Yadda yadda - Ashley says that it's "main" gun alone could destroy any ship in the Alliance fleet.

Yackety Schmackety - the goal of Sovereign is to destroy galactic government throwing the species of the galaxy into disarray (for this reason alone - anyone allowing the DA to get destroyed should lose).

Etc. etc. Outfitted with stuff the Normandy now has... the largest ship, with the largest weapons - could be a formidable flagship.

=========

I see why people let it blow up - I used to like gritty stories when I was edgy too.

But there's equal reasons for keeping it - and not just for care bare magic.

====

The "hard" choice was giving the lives of common soldiers... for the lives of politicians.

Common soldiers in the Alliance navy are not more valuable than the figureheads of no less than three space faring species.

Not to mention - I cannot imagine that the Destiny Ascension ALSO didn't evacuate all the other figureheads for the "dozens" of Council species. Which means the leaders of the Hanar, Volus, Elcor, and yes... humans (Udina and Anderson should have died in the DA - well, Anderson would have survived in a plot escape pod - but I digress)

End Transmission

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 25 janvier 2012 - 07:18 .

[mango smoothie]

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...

Whats funny is that the ascension was kinda hyped up but didnt do ish in the final battle. I know its a dreadnought but still lol

I think Dreadnoughts are overrated.

[HTTP 404]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Just replayed through ME1... and I don't get that choice at all, it just seems completely ****ing dumb for the alliance fleet, with nothing bigger than frigates, to let that massive space station which probably made up the other half of Citadel defense is on to be blown up. I know that having the council go down with it is a very renegade thing to do, but Bioware tried to convince me, against all of my senses and the intuition I've picked up from my time paying Real Time Strategy games, that helping the citadel fleet would actually make it harder to take down sovereign. I shouldn't have to explain the advantages of surprise reinforcements and the numbers advantage, and the fact that the alliance hadn't brought anything bigger than a frigate while the citadel had capital ships and the ascension.

In summary, I sincerely doubt that the alliance holding back could have had any advantages, and I'm sure if it weren't for video game logic that shepard would have been rightfully court martialed and executed if he hadn't let the alliance help.

I thought it was a time constraint, not the chance to win.  When my shepard made the call to focus attack on Sovereign it was with the idea that time is of the essence.  However, with a paragon choice it turned out for the better any ways.  (the illusion of choice)  the cost of human ships with a paragon choice is interesting however.  they should have made the geth ships attacking the Citadel fleet responsible for destroying the extra human ships instead of Sovereign.

[Someone With Mass]

Save it. Who knows, it might be handy to have in the future.

[Medhia Nox]

The stupidest part of allowing the DA to die... is Shepard saying: "Hold off the Alliance fleet until I get the arms open."

Yeah... because that huge armada of GETH isn't in the way.... or were they just going to say: "Oh, my bad - you got the arms open - go ahead, destroy our metallic cuttlefish overlord!"

[BlueMagitek]

Medhia Nox wrote...

The stupidest part of allowing the DA to die... is Shepard saying: "Hold off the Alliance fleet until I get the arms open."

Yeah... because that huge armada of GETH isn't in the way.... or were they just going to say: "Oh, my bad - you got the arms open - go ahead, destroy our metallic cuttlefish overlord!"

The explosion of the DA takes the Geth with them.  

[Pacifien]

Medhia Nox wrote...
The "hard" choice was giving the lives of common soldiers... for the lives of politicians.

I always thought the hard choice was thinking do you stop Sovereign at all cost (in which case the lives of the soldiers *and* politicians will be sacrificed) or do you stop Sovereign at some cost (in which case, someone might think saving the politicians might be warranted).

In the end it doesn't matter because the cinematic that BioWare gives you is the exact same no matter what choice you make.

[mango smoothie]

Medhia Nox wrote...

The stupidest part of allowing the DA to die... is Shepard saying: "Hold off the Alliance fleet until I get the arms open."

Yeah... because that huge armada of GETH isn't in the way.... or were they just going to say: "Oh, my bad - you got the arms open - go ahead, destroy our metallic cuttlefish overlord!"

1. The point is to save reinforcements that are fresh and undamaged, thats why you hold them back.

2. While it's still unclear, it looks like the Geth are more distracted by the Citadel fleet.

Modifié par mango smoothie, 25 janvier 2012 - 07:34 .

[Thargorichiban]

From a logistical standpoint it was much better to save the Destiny Ascension during the Battle of the Citadel than to not. At least when you factor in the upcoming war with the Reapers.

According to ME1 the DA has almost enough firepower to equal the rest of the Asari fleet combined. Which means if you don't save it the Asari's naval might has been effectively cut in half.

You sacrifice 8 Alliance cruisers to save the DA which is the largest (and arguably) most powerful dreadnaught the Council forces have to bear. The crew of the DA (10,000) is much more than the forces lost on the Alliance side.

Just looking at the numbers it is pretty black and white.

[Pacifien]

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...
Whats funny is that the ascension was kinda hyped up but didnt do ish in the final battle. I know its a dreadnought but still lol

I think that was to show just how unprepared the Citadel races would be for a full Reaper onslaught. The Destiny Ascension is the best they have to offer and Sovereign wasn't bothered by it in the slightest. The cinematics show it just cutting through Turians ships like it ain't no thing.

Not only did it take an entire Alliance fleet concentrating on one Reaper to bring it down, but it took a fluke to get its shields down in the first place. Had Shepard not pissed off Sovereign enough for Sovereign to take control of Saren's body, who knows if the Alliance would have ever been able to blow Sovereign up.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I have never saved the Ascension, and I think doing so is idiotic.

You have one chance to stop Sovereign, and that chance is now. You can either go for it, leaving the Ascension to die, or you can risk the fate of the galaxy trying for a slightly more positive outcome.

The risks far outweigh the rewards. Trying to save the Ascension is reckless and stupid.

The downside of Sovereign winning this battle is far too great to allow any other concerns to reduce your effectiveness. Rational Decision Theory shows us clearly that letting Ascension die is the only reasonable alternative.

[Pacifien]

Thargorichiban wrote...
From a logistical standpoint it was much better to save the Destiny Ascension during the Battle of the Citadel than to not. At least when you factor in the upcoming war with the Reapers.

Well, that's forward thinking to be planning for the upcoming war against the Reapers when you haven't even finished off Sovereign yet.

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

DAO had a choice like this, too. You think you need to sacrifice something in order to keep something really bad from happening, but it turns out that if you take a chance and don't do the sacrifice.... nothing bad happens.

You cannot take foreknowledge into account when making reasoned decisions.