440 réponses à ce sujet

[Izhalezan]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sovereign alread WAS in and attached to the citadel, assuming control, when you get to the choice.

Vigils fall STALLED sovereign. It didn't stop it. It was nothing more than a buffer - Vigil explicitly warns you about that. Sarens work was done.

Then why bother rebirthing Saren?
Why did Mass effect happen at all when it seems Soverign could have simply flown in on any old day and latched on and done it all himself?
There wouldn't have been such a large Citadel force to fight him since they weren't on lockdown and aware that the station was being targetted for assault by a enemy fleet.

[Nu-Nu]

Soveriegn probaly had to use Saren body to re-take control...because that creepy Saren at the end ain't Saren. Otherwise, he wouldn't have bothered weakening himself fighting Shepard and taking control of Saren, and just diverted all his energy into cracking the file

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 25 janvier 2012 - 10:52 .

[Poison_Berrie]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

- if they weren't fighting the Citadel fleet, what were those ships doing? No one expected the 5th fleet. The geth and Soy weren't prepared for that. Even if a few geth try to take on the alliance fleet, it still doesn't matter. They'd be cought between two fleets.

- Which is irrelvent. No matter what happens to the Citadel fleet, it's stoping Sovereign that's important. And the Citadel fleet is busy.

- that makes it a sitting duck that can't manouver properly to make use of it's main gun OR evade/escape enemy reurn fire. And a vessel with compromised defenses. You think it would have survived a hit from sovereign in that state?

1) That really depends on the numbers. If the Geth fleet can spare some ships to harass the human fleet (the number of ships around the DA is no small force) while also keeping the Citadel forces occupied, that would actually give them an opening on your flank.

2) With the Geth, by reducing their numbers their job gets easier and the Geth certainly have a harder time flanking you. It might even free some ships up to aid you.

3) I actually doubt it's completely dead in the water. Since Sovreign is a stationary target there is no need to account for him out manevuering your shots, effectively increasing your weapons range.
That said it could be possible that they choose not to engage considering their damage and cargo, so I'll give you that. 

[Icinix]

CannonLars wrote...

This sums up the decisions:

www.youtube.com/watch

I think it is supposed to feel like both choices have a tragic consequence.


And god I miss when ME trailers had that kind of sleek futuristic mood.

I miss all the trailers that were done by BioWare before a certain event shifted their entire marketing.

*cough*

[seirhart]

Sovereign wouldn't have been able to just fly in, to the citadel even if he got there Sovereign may be huge and a dreadnaught but he would have been destroyed before he even got near the citadel. If Soverign didn't bring in the geth the citadel fleet would have concentrated on Sovereign and be destroyed. I also save the council along with the ascendant.

Modifié par seirhart, 25 janvier 2012 - 10:54 .

[seirhart]

sorry double post

Modifié par seirhart, 25 janvier 2012 - 10:55 .

[Nikitn]

[quote]
Regardless, the more dead geth the less geth will be harassing the alliance. What do you think the geth would after they finished DA? Retreat or protect their machine-god?
[/quote]

Fight the Citadel fleet.
Turing towards the aliance fleet means turnign their reaer to the Citadel forces and that = death.

As I said before - newtonian motion. You can't easily disengage, you can't easily change direction.
[/quote]

Nonsense, the geth were fighting the entire citadel fleet, not just the DA. After destroying the DA the dozen or so geth ships fighting it would attack the human fleet and would become a thorn in the side. Besides the disadvantages are minimal - sacrefice a few small crafts to save the DA? who cares

[Barquiel]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

If Admiral(!) Hackett would have thought it was a bad idea to save the Destiny Ascension, then he would not have given the order to save the asari dreadnought. That is good enough for me.

Hacket doesn't know about Reapers and the Citadel being a relay for Reapers to swoop in and wipe out the galaxy. For everyone aside from Shepard, Sovereign is a geth ship.

It doesn't matter if Hackett thinks Sovereign is a geth ship or a reaper. Sovereign can't control the Citadel from the outside (that's why it resurrected Saren...Sovereign needs an inside man to open the portal).

Sovereign alread WAS in and attached to the citadel, assuming control, when you get to the choice.

Vigils fall STALLED sovereign. It didn't stop it. It was nothing more than a buffer - Vigil explicitly warns you about that. Sarens work was done.

There's a twitter message from Mac Walters and it said the following: "Sovereign was focusing a great deal of energy controlling Saren directly, like a puppet. His death made Sovereign vulnerable."

If Saren's work was done...why did Sovereign resurrect him and make itself vulnerable to the attacks of the alliance fleet?

[Icemix]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Icemix wrote...
This. At the point when you have to make the choice, Saren is presumed dead, Shepard has full control of the CItadel and it comes down to keeping the fleet back so you don't waste any ships fighting the Geth and thus increasing the chance of killing Sovereign, or saving the DA, the most powerful ship among the Citadel races ( almost as much fire power as the entire Asari fleet combined ), with a crew of 10000 and the Council onboard, but losing some ships in the process.

No. The underlined is false.
Shep has only temporary control. Sovereign in the process of taking it back.


Gezze, dont' any of you people read the dialogue?????

False, Sovereign needs someone at the master control unit of the Citadel in our case Saren, but he is interrupted by Shepard and is unable to give Sovereign the control over the Citadel. At the moment when you have to make the choice Shepard has the control over the Citadel and Sovereign is a sitting duck only relying on the husk Saren to finish the job but you make the choice before you realize that.
Looks like someone hasn't been paying attention.

[The_Real_Lee]

Honestlly, I just wanted an option of going in instantly and engaging the Geth to try and free up some of the Citadel Fleet before the arms open, but not save the DA. But no, only options are to save the DA or concentrate on Sov.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

It was mostly metagame.

But well, it was most powerful dreadnought, and in the long term should be better for diplomatic reasons.

Both choices have their goods.

[Adragalus]

 I tend to save it, for the following reasons:
-The Destiny Ascension is specifically stated to have firepower about equal to that of the rest of the Asari fleet combined. They have twenty-one dreadnoughts, even if one considers the "rest of the fleet" comment to include only dreadnoughts.

-If, as many Renegade players suggest, Shepard should make the decision based upon what he knew only at that moment, it seems clear that the best choice would be to punch in, cut through the Geth fleet, (destroying ships that could potentially give Sovereign fire support as a bonus, seeing as they did the vast majority of the initial damage to the Citadel Fleet,) and save the Flying Brick of Destruction. If I recall correctly, Shepard knew nothing of the DA's current combat worthiness, and therefore may have chosen to come in and save it, potentially gaining a powerful new asset to use in the imminent battle against Sovereign.

-Metagaming, this looks like the better choice in the long run.

Modifié par Adragalus, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:18 .

[darkiddd]

nelly21 wrote...

@ darkidd

I like this human! He understands!

Bioware made it so both decisions made sense. Saving the Council is the better strategic choice. It means that you will be able to form a more organized and cohesive defensive force to fight the reapers even if you fail to stop Sovereign.

Sacrificing the Council is the better tactical choice as it allows the Alliance to strike directly at enemy fleet's flagship with a fully intact force. There are many instances throughout history where a direct assault on the leader of a large force has resulted in victory for the attackers. Take the battle of Gaugamela for example where the Persians had been pushing back the Macedonians and were winning until a decisive charge by Alexander broke through Darius's personal guards forcing his retreat and causing the Persian lines to collapse.

That wasn't exactly what I meant. All I said is that if you save the council destroying the geth you have more garanties of destroying sovereign because you don't have the geth behind you and you may have the firepower of some remaining council ships to help you, BUT you risk sovereign opening the portal because you give it more time to do so. And if the reapers come you can have all the organized defensive force you want but you're screwed.

And if you attack sovereign directly then you don't give it the time you would if you saved the council BUT you would have the geth behind you after they have destroyed the rest of the council fleet, and then the alliance fleet, with sovereign in front and the geth behind, could be destroyed by both forces before taking down sovereign.

-Saving the council gives you more chances of securing sovereign's defeat IF it hasn't opened the portal yet.

-Charging directly against sovereign gives it less time to open the portal IF you're able to destroy it and not to be destroyed being between the reaper and the geth forces.

Both decisions have its pros and cons, but both have ****** reason and are logical.

[darkiddd]

^ haha I wrote ****** accidentally

*feel like a 5 years old 

[Annoyed Dragon]

My view of saving the Ascension is of short term and long term.

Short term
I have a dreadnought with the attack power of entire asari fleet joined (the reason the geth was giving problems wasn't designed for close range combat).

Longer term
I have a ship with large amount of destructive power that should help with the Reapers if I give it a bit of range.

[darthnick427]

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

My view of saving the Ascension is of short term and long term.

Short term
I have a dreadnought with the attack power of entire asari fleet joined (the reason the geth was giving problems wasn't designed for close range combat).

Longer term
I have a ship with large amount of destructive power that should help with the Reapers if I give it a bit of range.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I always save that ship and expect it to punch some holes in reapers in ME3

[darkiddd]

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

My view of saving the Ascension is of short term and long term.

Short term
I have a dreadnought with the attack power of entire asari fleet joined (the reason the geth was giving problems wasn't designed for close range combat).

Longer term
I have a ship with large amount of destructive power that should help with the Reapers if I give it a bit of range.

Short term
Sovereign is opening a portal to dark space and the reapers will come. The ascension won't help you against sovereign if you save it (other council ships may do that we can't really know)

Long term
Irrelevant. What matters is now and you have to stop sovereign.

Geez I'm not saying saving the council is a bad chioce read what I wrote before, but if you do it at least do it for the right reasons man 

[Annoyed Dragon]

darkiddd wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

My view of saving the Ascension is of short term and long term.

Short term
I have a dreadnought with the attack power of entire asari fleet joined (the reason the geth was giving problems wasn't designed for close range combat).

Longer term
I have a ship with large amount of destructive power that should help with the Reapers if I give it a bit of range.

Short term
Sovereign is opening a portal to dark space and the reapers will come. The ascension won't help you against sovereign if you save it (other council ships may do that we can't really know)

Long term
Irrelevant. What matters is now and you have to stop sovereign.

Geez I'm not saying saving the council is a bad chioce read what I wrote before, but if you do it at least do it for the right reasons man 

I am doing it for the right reasons lets think about for a minute will the combined strength of the human fleet be enough to even get past Soverein shields or will the DA with it high destructive power help greatly if it was used in the way it was designed for in long range combat.

Modifié par Annoyed Dragon, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:56 .

[AlexXIV]

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

My view of saving the Ascension is of short term and long term.

Short term
I have a dreadnought with the attack power of entire asari fleet joined (the reason the geth was giving problems wasn't designed for close range combat).

Longer term
I have a ship with large amount of destructive power that should help with the Reapers if I give it a bit of range.

Short term
Sovereign is opening a portal to dark space and the reapers will come. The ascension won't help you against sovereign if you save it (other council ships may do that we can't really know)

Long term
Irrelevant. What matters is now and you have to stop sovereign.

Geez I'm not saying saving the council is a bad chioce read what I wrote before, but if you do it at least do it for the right reasons man 

I am doing it for the right reasons lets think about for a minute will the combined strength of the human fleet be enough to even get past Soverein shields or will the DA with it high destructive power help greatly if it was used in the way it was designed for in long range combat.

The DA isn't helping with Sovereign.

[Annoyed Dragon]

AlexXIV wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

My view of saving the Ascension is of short term and long term.

Short term
I have a dreadnought with the attack power of entire asari fleet joined (the reason the geth was giving problems wasn't designed for close range combat).

Longer term
I have a ship with large amount of destructive power that should help with the Reapers if I give it a bit of range.

Short term
Sovereign is opening a portal to dark space and the reapers will come. The ascension won't help you against sovereign if you save it (other council ships may do that we can't really know)

Long term
Irrelevant. What matters is now and you have to stop sovereign.

Geez I'm not saying saving the council is a bad chioce read what I wrote before, but if you do it at least do it for the right reasons man 

I am doing it for the right reasons lets think about for a minute will the combined strength of the human fleet be enough to even get past Soverein shields or will the DA with it high destructive power help greatly if it was used in the way it was designed for in long range combat.

The DA isn't helping with Sovereign.

It helps when you save it and like I said before it wasn't helping before because it had geth attacking it at close range.

You see the same in strategy games units that has massive destructive power at far ranges are usually the weakest when it comes to close range units.

Modifié par Annoyed Dragon, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:04 .

[AlexXIV]

Barquiel wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

If Admiral(!) Hackett would have thought it was a bad idea to save the Destiny Ascension, then he would not have given the order to save the asari dreadnought. That is good enough for me.

Hacket doesn't know about Reapers and the Citadel being a relay for Reapers to swoop in and wipe out the galaxy. For everyone aside from Shepard, Sovereign is a geth ship.

It doesn't matter if Hackett thinks Sovereign is a geth ship or a reaper. Sovereign can't control the Citadel from the outside (that's why it resurrected Saren...Sovereign needs an inside man to open the portal).

Sovereign alread WAS in and attached to the citadel, assuming control, when you get to the choice.

Vigils fall STALLED sovereign. It didn't stop it. It was nothing more than a buffer - Vigil explicitly warns you about that. Sarens work was done.

There's a twitter message from Mac Walters and it said the following: "Sovereign was focusing a great deal of energy controlling Saren directly, like a puppet. His death made Sovereign vulnerable."

If Saren's work was done...why did Sovereign resurrect him and make itself vulnerable to the attacks of the alliance fleet?

Sovereign knew Shep had killed Saren and temporary blocked Sovereign. Shepard also is going to open the wings so the Alliance Fleet can engage Sovereign. I would say the only way it makes sense is that Sovereign thought that trying to kill Shepard and gain control and open the relay would be safer than not fighting Shepard and fighting off the Alliance fleet. Probably means that Sovereign figured he wouldn't get access to the relay fast enough without removing Shepard and the Prothean disk. Or Sovereign was getting over confident and simply underestimated Shepard. Again.

[AlexXIV]

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

My view of saving the Ascension is of short term and long term.

Short term
I have a dreadnought with the attack power of entire asari fleet joined (the reason the geth was giving problems wasn't designed for close range combat).

Longer term
I have a ship with large amount of destructive power that should help with the Reapers if I give it a bit of range.

Short term
Sovereign is opening a portal to dark space and the reapers will come. The ascension won't help you against sovereign if you save it (other council ships may do that we can't really know)

Long term
Irrelevant. What matters is now and you have to stop sovereign.

Geez I'm not saying saving the council is a bad chioce read what I wrote before, but if you do it at least do it for the right reasons man 

I am doing it for the right reasons lets think about for a minute will the combined strength of the human fleet be enough to even get past Soverein shields or will the DA with it high destructive power help greatly if it was used in the way it was designed for in long range combat.

The DA isn't helping with Sovereign.

It helps when you save it and like I said before it wasn't helping before because it had geth attacking it at close range.

You see the same in strategy games units that has massive destructive power at far ranges are usually the weakest when it comes to close range units.

I see alot of ships fire at Sovereign but not the DA. Is it in the codex or does someone mention that the DA is helping? Because in the vid sequence you don't see it happening.

[RyuujinZERO]

Adragalus wrote...

 If I recall correctly, Shepard knew nothing of the DA's current combat worthiness, and therefore may have chosen to come in and save it, potentially gaining a powerful new asset to use in the imminent battle against Sovereign.

No, the destiny ascension explictly states that it's core systems are offline (Either engines or mass effect field generators, can't remember which). This is the single deciding factor for why I sacrificed the council - the destiny ascension was already out of the fight, at this point I would be sacrificing viable ships on a rescue mission.

Rescusing the crew would be a noble goal, but pointless if the citadel relay comes online because they - along with every civilised being in the galaxy - are doomed.

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:20 .

[Annoyed Dragon]

AlexXIV wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

darkiddd wrote...

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

My view of saving the Ascension is of short term and long term.

Short term
I have a dreadnought with the attack power of entire asari fleet joined (the reason the geth was giving problems wasn't designed for close range combat).

Longer term
I have a ship with large amount of destructive power that should help with the Reapers if I give it a bit of range.

Short term
Sovereign is opening a portal to dark space and the reapers will come. The ascension won't help you against sovereign if you save it (other council ships may do that we can't really know)

Long term
Irrelevant. What matters is now and you have to stop sovereign.

Geez I'm not saying saving the council is a bad chioce read what I wrote before, but if you do it at least do it for the right reasons man 

I am doing it for the right reasons lets think about for a minute will the combined strength of the human fleet be enough to even get past Soverein shields or will the DA with it high destructive power help greatly if it was used in the way it was designed for in long range combat.

The DA isn't helping with Sovereign.

It helps when you save it and like I said before it wasn't helping before because it had geth attacking it at close range.

You see the same in strategy games units that has massive destructive power at far ranges are usually the weakest when it comes to close range units.

I see alot of ships fire at Sovereign but not the DA. Is it in the codex or does someone mention that the DA is helping? Because in the vid sequence you don't see it happening.

I think it mentioned in a codex not 100% sure but even if it isn't the long term benefits stand,

Modifié par Annoyed Dragon, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:18 .

[Asari_Party]

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

I think it mentioned in a codex not 100% sure but even if it isn't the long term benefits stand,

Hackett mentioned it (Arrival DLC)