11391 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

Iohanna wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

So, if asari are asexual they either a) do not have sexual feelings, or they reproduce asexually, both of which whe know to be false. Even the dictionary.com quote affirms this.

Ergo, asari are not asexual, and to continue to use that word in connection to the asari is incorrect.

This is what I'm trying to get accross. Somehow my Shepard seems to have had relations with two different Asari. If then are genuinely asexual, then this would not be possible.

That and the asari air kisses. Can you imagine either a vanguard or a sentinel romancing Liara? The ship would have power fluctuations the size of a dreadnought.

Not to mention adepts! They could probably destroy the damn Normandy while they're at it, those fools!

Instead of air kisses, they should've done a mind meld.

/thedrama

[JoePilot]

In re: to the asari sexuality dustup, they have, at various times, been described as either mono-gendered and/or asexual (but only in the sense that the concept of different genders or "sexes" do not apply)

This is not to say they are not sexually (different usage of the word here) interested in others. Their mating process allows them to attune their nervous system to that of another living creature and reproduce using genetic variations derived from such attuning (through a process that is not quite clear).

The error here lies in trying to use human classification schemes to describe a race that was designed to provide the 'green alien girl' allure, while at the same time providing some degree of plausibility for inter-species relations. In addition, the asari share physical traits with turians (head folds) and salarians (tinted skin) as well, leading to speculation that appealing sensually to other species is part of their survival strategy.

In summary, I don't expect Dietz to graps the nuances of their existence in the lore, so I'm more willing to give him a pass on this one, as long as he's in the ballpark. I can't believe I just said that, but there you go.

[LPPrince]

Dietz could've at least dealt with the super saiyan thing. Jeez.

[izmirtheastarach]

JoePilot wrote...

In re: to the asari sexuality dustup, they have, at various times, been described as either mono-gendered and/or asexual (but only in the sense that the concept of different genders or "sexes" do not apply)

This is not to say they are not sexually (different usage of the word here) interested in others. Their mating process allows them to attune their nervous system to that of another living creature and reproduce using genetic variations derived from such attuning (through a process that is not quite clear).

The error here lies in trying to use human classification schemes to describe a race that was designed to provide the 'green alien girl' allure, while at the same time providing some degree of plausibility for inter-species relations. In addition, the asari share physical traits with turians (head folds) and salarians (tinted skin) as well, leading to speculation that appealing sensually to other species is part of their survival strategy.

In summary, I don't expect Dietz to graps the nuances of their existence in the lore, so I'm more willing to give him a pass on this one, as long as he's in the ballpark. I can't believe I just said that, but there you go.

The times they have been described as such were times outside of the games. And they ARE mono-gendered. Their gender is female. The point that is being made here is that no matter what Dietz may have read elsewhere, the Asari can't be asexual, as they don't fit the definition.

So either Dietz didn't know that, or he did know it and used the word anyways. Either way, he sucks.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 30 janvier 2012 - 04:23 .

[LPPrince]

That's the least of the issues.

[izmirtheastarach]

LPPrince wrote...

That's the least of the issues.

This is also a thing.

[ElitePinecone]

I must now ensconce myself in bed, where I shall no doubt miss the transition from one state to another.

"Goodbye," he said feelingly.

Asari-style air kisses to everyone!

(I really hope there's some sort of official response soon. To declare Deception part of the ME canon wouldn't just break half the timeline, it'd be an admission that the integrity of the storytelling isn't a priority when there's tie-in money to be made.)

[LPPrince]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

That's the least of the issues.

This is also a thing.

Heh, did Dietz ever say something about quarians and turians being dextro?

[JoePilot]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

The times they have been described as such were times outside of the games. And they ARE mono-gendered. Their gender is female. The point that is being made here is that no matter what Dietz may have read elsewhere, the Asari can't be asexual, as they don't fit the definition.

I don't disagree for the most part, I'm just saying that the term 'asexual' can have different meanings, and one of those meanings "without sex differentiation" can be interpreted to be correct.  It's a flaw resulting from the different definitions of the term, when trying to describe a theoretical species that doesn't exist in reality and has no close analogue to compare it to; different adjectives with varying degrees of accuracy are going to get thrown around, so I'm willing to be more tolerant of his misunderstandings in this. one. instance.

[legion999]

Are we allowed to discuss spoilers now?

[Yuoaman]

While "asexual" describes the asari if you think about them a certain way and look at the definition a certain way, "monogendered" has pretty much been accepted as the proper way to describe them, and Dietz should have done the research to learn that.

[JoePilot]

LPPrince wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

That's the least of the issues.

This is also a thing.

Heh, did Dietz ever say something about quarians and turians being dextro?

Pssh, like he even knows what that means

[XyleJKH]

XyleJKH wrote...

I first mentioned the sensing of biotics... Can I have credit?

[izmirtheastarach]

JoePilot wrote...

I don't disagree for the most part, I'm just saying that the term 'asexual' can have different meanings, and one of those meanings "without sex differentiation" can be interpreted to be correct.  It's a flaw resulting from the different definitions of the term, when trying to describe a theoretical species that doesn't exist in reality and has no close analogue to compare it to; different adjectives with varying degrees of accuracy are going to get thrown around, so I'm willing to be more tolerant of his misunderstandings in this. one. instance.

Yeah, well......your point makes sense. They sort of kind of meet one of of the definitions. So..can we get back to all the other things that are wrong with this terrible book?

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 30 janvier 2012 - 04:27 .

[MissOuJ]

JoePilot wrote...

The error here lies in trying to use human classification schemes to describe a race that was designed to provide the 'green alien girl' allure, while at the same time providing some degree of plausibility for inter-species relations. In addition, the asari share physical traits with turians (head folds) and salarians (tinted skin) as well, leading to speculation that appealing sensually to other species is part of their survival strategy.

I agree on the murkiness of human-specific language when applied to alien races, but that last point is a strech. How can a species with a 1000 year life span adapt to mate with individuals outside their species when the community that has allowed it to be in contact with such species is three generations old at best?

I know Mordin mentions pheromones at some point, and that's a different can of worms entirely, but still...

[didymos1120]

XyleJKH wrote...

XyleJKH wrote...

I first mentioned the sensing of biotics... Can I have credit?

Credit where?  The Google doc doesn't say who noticed what.  The list of names at the end is just people who have edited it.

[ZLurps]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Actually, the Aria/Cerberus thing is really bugging me now.

Deception takes place before Invasion. As of Invasion, Aria is allowing Cerberus to maintain supply bases on Omega and regularly land ships and move cargo around to support their salvage operations in the Collector base.

This is *after* she found out a Cerberus operative killed her daughter in cold blood, an operative that The Illusive Man later rescued with a fake ransom right under Aria's nose.

Aria's obsession with her daughter's murderer is practically her role in Deception. With lines like these...

If the Illusive Man was in any way responsible for Liselle’s death T’Loak wanted to know about it. “Go on.”

The knowledge gave T’Loak a deep sense of satisfaction and fed her ever- growing desire for revenge. Leng was going to die.

(not to mention: "So T’Loak read, and read, until she was couldn’t read anymore.)

She knows Leng killed her daughter. She knows TIM helped Leng escape.

Why in the flying frak would she allow Cerberus to maintain bases on Omega?

I think this is clear inconsistency and should be added in the error document.

Also, Aria not recognising Kai Leng depite meeting him in Retribution should be on the list.

[JoePilot]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

JoePilot wrote...

I don't disagree for the most part, I'm just saying that the term 'asexual' can have different meanings, and one of those meanings "without sex differentiation" can be interpreted to be correct.  It's a flaw resulting from the different definitions of the term, when trying to describe a theoretical species that doesn't exist in reality and has no close analogue to compare it to; different adjectives with varying degrees of accuracy are going to get thrown around, so I'm willing to be more tolerant of his misunderstandings in this. one. instance.

Yeah, well......your point makes sense. They sort of kind of meet one of of the definitions. So..can we get back to all the other things that are wrong with this terrible book?

Sure! In fact, I propose that from now on, whenever in a heated debate on BSN in which there is no clear resolution, we employ a simple statement that re-affirms common ground and allows both sides to agree to disagree, to wit:

Person A: "No, you twit, the migrant fleet securitiy process involves TWO DISTINCT codes, one of which is the all-clear, the other is a disguised distress signal that results in annihilation of the offending craft."

Person B: "Don't call me a twit, you Leng, I'm saying that in ME2 they didn't give the code, therefore it's not canon!"

Person A: "Deception sucks."

Person B: "Indeed, Deception sucks the worst."

Person A: "I'm glad we could come to an agreement."

Person B: "Me too. God, what an awful, awful book.  What were we talking about?"

Person A: "No idea."

[Yuoaman]

Luc0s wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Lots of "errors" in the Google doc are in fact wrong themselves. How can I fix these errors or completely remove them?

You can try wrote your opinion, why they are wrong, here first. If you get good counter argument,  
they will be erase, it happenned before, but mostly this mistake succesfully defended themselves.

Fair enough.


Lets start with this:

Here are 2 "errors" that can be completely removed, because these are not errors:


"16. Biotics are told to have different levels in their Biotic abilities - There is no such thing, there are only different types of implants, such as the L2 and L3 implants for humans."

This is wrong. Not every human boitic shares the same strength. Some human biotics are more powerful than others. The entire ascention project was about getting the most potential out of human biotics. The previous books also made it clear that only the more advanced human biotics could use attacks such as 'singularity'.

However, Deception might be the first book that actually used numbers to categorize the strength and level of a biotic. But that's not really an error or retcon.



"29. TIM's hideout -  in Retribution it is written that TIM is hiding on a space station, which changes location after every visitor including Leng. Now TIM is on a planet and stays there after Leng's visit."

Not really an error. TIM could just have changed his hideout. He did so between Ascention and Retribution. During Ascention, TIM's hideout was on earth in the penthouse of Hislop Aerospace's building. So between Ascention and Restribution his hideout also changed. I don't see why it can't change again between Retribution and Deception. No error here.

The fact that four books in is the first time biotic levels are mentioned is a retcon, though - we knew biotics had varying strength, not that there was a quantified scale. And they write it as if his hideout in Deception has always been a permanent hideout.

And I agree that ZLurps' example should be added, I'm not logged in to Google at the moment, though.

[didymos1120]

As I noted earlier, Dietz thinks TIM's space station was lost because he has confused it with the facility Grayson was held on.

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 janvier 2012 - 04:38 .

[Yuoaman]

didymos1120 wrote...

As I noted earlier, Dietz thinks TIMs space station was lost because he has confused it with the facility Grayson was held on.

This is also true.

[izmirtheastarach]

Yuoaman wrote...

The fact that four books in is the first time biotic levels are mentioned is a retcon, though - we knew biotics had varying strength, not that there was a quantified scale. And they write it as if his hideout in Deception has always been a permanent hideout.

And I agree that ZLurps' example should be added, I'm not logged in to Google at the moment, though.

It's also very clear that the only reason Dietz mentions these Biotic levels is because he misunderstood the concept of L2 and L3 implants, and thought they referred to some sort of Biotic level rating.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 30 janvier 2012 - 04:39 .

[didymos1120]

Yuoaman wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

As I noted earlier, Dietz thinks TIMs space station was lost because he has confused it with the facility Grayson was held on.

This is also true.

Also, we just saw in the GTTV special that TIM still has it.

[Blacklash93]

Yuoaman wrote...

"16. Biotics are told to have different levels in their Biotic abilities - There is no such thing, there are only different types of implants, such as the L2 and L3 implants for humans."

This is wrong. Not every human boitic shares the same strength. Some human biotics are more powerful than others. The entire ascention project was about getting the most potential out of human biotics. The previous books also made it clear that only the more advanced human biotics could use attacks such as 'singularity'.

However, Deception might be the first book that actually used numbers to categorize the strength and level of a biotic. But that's not really an error or retcon.

You would think if there was such a measurement of innate biotics, it would have been mentioned in Ascension.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 30 janvier 2012 - 04:41 .