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Mass Effect: Deception Discussion Thread (Updated 2/2/2012) *Now with 30% more links!*


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#6151
Centauri2002

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Nohvarr wrote...

How many bad Star Wars EU books are out there in your opinion? The same question for Star Trek? Warhammer 40K? Terminator? Halo? etc...

Some of those books were written by people who loved the franchise, but thought they could and should take things in a different direction. Then others just had their own vision of how things should work which clashed with that of the fans they were supposedly writing for.  A Star War example would be Troy Denning, I honestly think the man loves writing for Star Wars but he's done somethings, taken the EU in a direction, that many fans are not happy with.

Then there are writers like Karen Traviss. She loved mandos and hated Jedi. While she was writing her 'Republic Commando' series her dislike was fine as it was contained to her own characters, ones she created within the universe, and had no bearing on any established characters. Then came 'Legacy of The Force' where she was told to write populare EU characters like Luke Skywalker, and Jaina Solo. Both of which she either trashe or made look like idiots because they were associated with a portion of Star Wars she didn't like, but wrote for anyways because of money.

Dietz writing for cash and not for love is of no surprise to me wen viewed from that perspective.

When a series begins to have books written by authors outside the 'core creatives' resonsible for the universe itsef, you significantly increase the chance of bad books. They want to give other writers the freedom to bring their own talents to the table, but then they don't always have time to comb through a book those others have written to make sure they got everything right.

To be fair to Bioware, I do remember the 'Baldur's Gate' books, and their poor quality. Though some of their more recent work has shown improvment over the BG era stuff, they're still going to make mistakes.

The real question is, what do that do about them? and we will have to wait or that answer.


I think it's perfectly fine for an author to have their own vision for a franchise and also quite unavoidable. Still, I don't see that as an excuse for poor writing - from form to content. I can understand that a writer might take a universe in a new direction, perhaps one I don't necessarily agree with, and that's fine. But it's the fault of the editors and those checking over the story when huge, glaring mistakes like those in Deception are allowed through to the final copy. BioWare really should have more interest in their novels.

That said, it's interesting to see how many of these kinds of franchises produce disappointing novels (for differing reasons, but still...). Perhaps it's just the fallout from wanting quick money off the back of a game or movie. There have been some good ones, however, so that can't be the only reason.

Modifié par centauri2002, 31 janvier 2012 - 12:46 .


#6152
LPPrince

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Cancer Puppet wrote...

I'm guessing that a thread that hits 250 pages of complaints in less than a week is going to be getting Bioware's attention. Yikes.


Already got their attention a while ago.

#6153
Someone With Mass

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Vaeliorin wrote...

Intrestingly, Amazon's favorite 5 star reviewer is up to 64 reviews posted today, and it's only 7:22 AM EST. I wonder if we can make Amazon remove that 5 star review somehow, as it's pretty obviously completely bogus.

Honestly, it pains me that anyone could praise this book, even if it is some marketing shill.


It'd pain me even more if people are actually thinking that the book is good.

#6154
ArkkAngel007

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JakePT wrote...

SogaBan wrote...

Sorry for spoilers...

At the end Admiral David/Ms. Kahlee tries to convince the council that the Cerberus is harvesting an army of "reaper-ised and indoctrianted" Grayson. Now, if we see the trailers from Bioware sites and Bioware pulse, do the cerberus thugs look like that??? I don't want to bet as they were probably wearing heavy armour like protections...

...

Pretty sure I read somewhere (not the leak, which I haven't read) that the armor was partly to cover up the reaper stuff.


The Game Informer that had the Mars mission preview talked about the relationship between Reaper tech and Cerberus soldiers (won't go into huge details for the sake of some people).  

#6155
LPPrince

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centauri2002 wrote...

*snippity snip*


Difference is, Dietz knew NOTHING of Mass Effect before contracted.

#6156
Centauri2002

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LPPrince wrote...

Difference is, Dietz knew NOTHING of Mass Effect before contracted.


The question arises - why did they hire him? 

#6157
CDRSkyShepard

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Chickenaut wrote...

Objection !

since the doc is read-only so i post this,

Lore

18. Quarian Ships Visit Omega on regular basis and maintain a warehouse (debatable)

Tali mentioned secure drops in civilized areas so someone on pilgrimage could ship it home, this "secure drop"
imply a place that needed to maintain it's security or avaibility. So it is in the realm possibility that Quarian ship
or ships visit Omega on regular basis for whatever bussines The Quarian needed
(Intelligence gathering,
Pilgrimages meeting places, etc)


Characters

8. Quarian Names, continued ( Is not error )

N7: Quarian Crash Site on ME 2 Lore.
The Quarian survivor named Lt. Forzan vas Idenna, no clan name.


You bring up a good point on the "secure drops," but I still find it highly unlikely that one of these "secure drop" areas is on Omega. First of all, Kenn was robbed blind on Omega, thus was stuck selling salvage. Ascension also makes it pretty clear that Omega is not the place quarians go unless absolutely necessary. Omega just isn't quarian-friendly in general, so no quarian would go there if it could be avoided, much less try to drop off something potentially of value to the Fleet there.

#6158
LPPrince

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centauri2002 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Difference is, Dietz knew NOTHING of Mass Effect before contracted.


The question arises - why did they hire him? 


He has a tendency to be quick with novels and it seems they wanted this novel out before Mass 3 launched.

#6159
CroGamer002

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centauri2002 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Difference is, Dietz knew NOTHING of Mass Effect before contracted.


The question arises - why did they hire him? 


Drew and Mac were busy, so I guess they could only get Dietz at the time.

#6160
SogaBan

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Eski.Moe wrote...

Kai Leng breaks into Anderson's apartment and eats his cereal. It's basically his way marking his territory. One step above urine.


:D I fell down from the chair...!!!

#6161
Balmung31

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centauri2002 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Difference is, Dietz knew NOTHING of Mass Effect before contracted.


The question arises - why did they hire him? 


Yeah, that was my question some pages back, too. 

What exactly was the process Bioware used to choose the writer for this book?  What credentials were they looking for?  Did any research into their previous works enter the equation? 

I doubt we'll ever know. 

#6162
ElitePinecone

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Vaeliorin wrote...

Intrestingly, Amazon's favorite 5 star reviewer is up to 64 reviews posted today, and it's only 7:22 AM EST. I wonder if we can make Amazon remove that 5 star review somehow, as it's pretty obviously completely bogus.

Honestly, it pains me that anyone could praise this book, even if it is some marketing shill.


Amusingly, she claimed to have read and reviewed a book by Australian author John Birmingham that deliberately named a character "Harriet Klausner". 

She didn't notice a character who was named after her.

But I'm sure she's read all 64 books that she's reviewed today. Why would someone lie about that? :whistle:

#6163
Arcadian Legend

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LPPrince wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Can't say I'm too surprised that this book isn't much good. What I am surprised at is how bad it's turned out to be. How any writer worth his/her salt can write a story without much research... I just don't know. What's up with BioWare and their choices lately? The Revan book was an utter disappointment and now this? Who's making these decisions, I wonder?


The novels tanked, SWTOR is tanking, etc etc.

Lots of chaos around Bioware right now.


Literally everyones eyes are on ME3 now.

#6164
CDRSkyShepard

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SogaBan wrote...

Eski.Moe wrote...

Kai Leng breaks into Anderson's apartment and eats his cereal. It's basically his way marking his territory. One step above urine.


:D I fell down from the chair...!!!


Cue the, "Oh, we got a badass over here!" memes.

#6165
LPPrince

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Mesina2 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Difference is, Dietz knew NOTHING of Mass Effect before contracted.


The question arises - why did they hire him? 


Drew and Mac were busy, so I guess they could only get Dietz at the time.


Can Mac even write a novel? I haven't heard of him writing a novel.

#6166
Nohvarr

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centauri2002 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

The real question is, what do that do about them? and we will have to wait or that answer.


I think it's perfectly fine for an author to have their own vision for a franchise and also quite unavoidable. Still, I don't see that as an excuse for poor writing - from form to content. I can understand that a writer might take a universe in a new direction, perhaps one I don't necessarily agree with, and that's fine. But it's the fault of the editors and those checking over the story when huge, glaring mistakes like those in Deception are allowed through to the final copy. BioWare really should have more interest in their novels.

That said, it's interesting to see how many of these kinds of franchises produce disappointing novels (for differing reasons, but still...). Perhaps it's just the fallout from wanting a quick money off the back of a game or movie. There have been some good ones, however, so that can't be the only reason.


Oh I'm not excusing it, but pointing out it is a problem for multiple series. One that shows no real sign of being solved. After "Legacy of The Force" they went on to make 'Fate of the Jedi' as a method of fixing past mistakes and that is a little sad. This thread is a good start to helping Bioware as long as it remains (mostly) respectful. 250 pages of people calmly and rationally stating the problems they had with this book and what they'd like to see improve would be far more useful than emotional rants, prophecies of doom, and insults. I'm sure none of that has happened and would encourage it to stay that way.

#6167
Centauri2002

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Nohvarr wrote...

Oh I'm not excusing it, but pointing out it is a problem for multiple series. One that shows no real sign of being solved. After "Legacy of The Force" they went on to make 'Fate of the Jedi' as a method of fixing past mistakes and that is a little sad. This thread is a good start to helping Bioware as long as it remains (mostly) respectful. 250 pages of people calmly and rationally stating the problems they had with this book and what they'd like to see improve would be far more useful than emotional rants, prophecies of doom, and insults. I'm sure none of that has happened and would encourage it to stay that way.


Agreed, we shall let rationality win the day.

And, hopefully, BioWare will learn from this and from the mistakes of other franchises. :)

#6168
ElitePinecone

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SogaBan wrote...
Not a single emotion...!! Not even for Hendel...!


That was what enraged me. 

Kahlee has known Hendel for decades. She knew Gillian and Nick for almost their whole lives. Drew had the subtle interpersonal relationships between Kahlee and her students work so well. 

But her reaction to ALL THREE OF THEIR DEATHS in an hour is as wooden as the trees she randomly plants in their memories.

It's completely absurd, and I hate that the characters' reactions are so ridicilous.  

#6169
Khran1505

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Just in case people missed it: Kotaku.com features an article on Deception along with a link to my book burning video!

While I'm quite saddened by the fact a "book burning" video is my most popular video so far, I'm glad to see the majority agree this novel deserves its fate.

#6170
LPPrince

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Arcadian Legend wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Can't say I'm too surprised that this book isn't much good. What I am surprised at is how bad it's turned out to be. How any writer worth his/her salt can write a story without much research... I just don't know. What's up with BioWare and their choices lately? The Revan book was an utter disappointment and now this? Who's making these decisions, I wonder?


The novels tanked, SWTOR is tanking, etc etc.

Lots of chaos around Bioware right now.


Literally everyones eyes are on ME3 now.


Dramatic music is playing in Bioware HQ right now, I can hear it.

#6171
Homebound

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Looks like somebody didnt do their research.

#6172
Someone With Mass

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LPPrince wrote...

He has a tendency to be quick with novels and it seems they wanted this novel out before Mass 3 launched.


Which makes me believe that the book was just something they came up with and never had planned.

Ascension's plot line didn't need a sequel. At all.

#6173
LPPrince

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Someone With Mass wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

He has a tendency to be quick with novels and it seems they wanted this novel out before Mass 3 launched.


Which makes me believe that the book was just something they came up with and never had planned.

Ascension's plot line didn't need a sequel. At all.


But we got Retribution afterward...

#6174
Arcadian Legend

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ElitePinecone wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...

Intrestingly, Amazon's favorite 5 star reviewer is up to 64 reviews posted today, and it's only 7:22 AM EST. I wonder if we can make Amazon remove that 5 star review somehow, as it's pretty obviously completely bogus.

Honestly, it pains me that anyone could praise this book, even if it is some marketing shill.


Amusingly, she claimed to have read and reviewed a book by Australian author John Birmingham that deliberately named a character "Harriet Klausner". 

She didn't notice a character who was named after her.

But I'm sure she's read all 64 books that she's reviewed today. Why would someone lie about that? :whistle:


I don't even know why someone would waste their time just 5-starring 64 books in one day. Clearly has nothing better to do.

#6175
LPPrince

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Arcadian Legend wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

Vaeliorin wrote...

Intrestingly, Amazon's favorite 5 star reviewer is up to 64 reviews posted today, and it's only 7:22 AM EST. I wonder if we can make Amazon remove that 5 star review somehow, as it's pretty obviously completely bogus.

Honestly, it pains me that anyone could praise this book, even if it is some marketing shill.


Amusingly, she claimed to have read and reviewed a book by Australian author John Birmingham that deliberately named a character "Harriet Klausner". 

She didn't notice a character who was named after her.

But I'm sure she's read all 64 books that she's reviewed today. Why would someone lie about that? :whistle:


I don't even know why someone would waste their time just 5-starring 64 books in one day. Clearly has nothing better to do.


Stated before- No life.