11391 réponses à ce sujet

[JoePilot]

I am hesitant to point this out, but:

The damage has already been done - they let the book be released, and at this point Bioware is hoping the backlash will slowly fade away.  Lesson learned, nothing to see here, move along, etc.  There is nothing to be gained from talking if they aren't going to do anything about it (which at this point they aren't), so they aren't going to speak out on this unless and until it starts to affect them in other ways.

The primary purpose of tie-ins like this one are to increase visibility of the game being promoted and therefore increase sales.

My suggestion is, to anyone who has the stomach for it and the principle to do so, cancel their preorder of the upcoming game.  If it can be demonstrated that a bad tie-in can actually decrease initial sales, that is the only way to bring Bioware to the table to open a dialogue on this.  I'm not saying you can't buy the game new at a later date (in fact, given that future DLC is a given, I see no reason not to), I'm just saying that this 'book' was a shrewd, calculated effort to boost sales, quallity be-damned, and until that ceases to be the case, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bioware to do anything but keep quiet about this.

Think about these things the same way they do, and show them that we will not buy whatever they release without reading reviews first.  That will encourage quality.

My 2 cents.

Modifié par JoePilot, 31 janvier 2012 - 04:04 .

[Centauri2002]

Radahldo wrote...

I remember in the first book there is that part where a krogan biotically lifts a fuel tanker (or something) and hurls it at his enemies.
I always found that to be pretty absurd. I don't remember the krogan even using biotics after that so what was even the point in establishing his strength? Karpshyns has many absurd scenarios in his books in addition to spotty grammar.
I think deception is pretty bad, but it is not Dietz took over the final book in LOTR and killed off samwise.
All these mass effect novels have been pretty average so I am suprised you all care this much.

For me, it's not necessarily about the poor writing (although, I think the writing should be held to a high standard as well). One person's tolerance for a style of writing is different to another's. I, personally, don't enjoy reading Drew's books either. But some do and they gain enjoyment from the story too.

What is really the problem here is that BioWare is allowing this book to be sold, as an official product, when it trounces over all of the lore that they have themselves established. When a company stops caring for their own IP, then I think someone should stop and say something. 

[izmirtheastarach]

Yuoaman wrote...

Eski.Moe wrote...

What the hell is up with that Amazon review that is completely negative and yet gives the book 4 stars?

It's to make it more visible.

Because of that one five-star, we can't get the rating lower then a two. So I'm not to worry about the 4-star. Fine review is an the top of the favourables list anyways. Been getting thumbs from all of the sites I put it up on. Two star ratings overall on every one of them except Amazon.ca, where I have the only review.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 31 janvier 2012 - 04:02 .

[LPPrince]

Radahldo wrote...

I remember in the first book there is that part where a krogan biotically lifts a fuel tanker (or something) and hurls it at his enemies.
I always found that to be pretty absurd. I don't remember the krogan even using biotics after that so what was even the point in establishing his strength? Karpshyns has many absurd scenarios in his books in addition to spotty grammar.
I think deception is pretty bad, but it is not Dietz took over the final book in LOTR and killed off samwise.
All these mass effect novels have been pretty average so I am suprised you all care this much.

He was a biotic, and he used biotics a few times in Revelation if I recall correctly.

Also, remember that Revelation was written prior to ME1, so if something doesn't make sense, its forgivable.

After that though(Ascension and beyond) that's when stuff should stick to the lore set by the franchise, especially the top tier which would be the games.

[Avissel]

Radahldo wrote...
tty bad, but it is not Dietz took over the final book in LOTR and killed off samwise.
All these mass effect novels have been pretty average so I am suprised you all care this much.

I think people are more upset because it's like Dietz took over the last LOTR book and suddnely Sam was an Orc who called Frodo "The Do-man" and the One-Ring had become  "The 6 necklaces".

To me it's not so much that the writeing is bad, but it is, it's that he seems to just seem to randomly ignore lore.

Also some one posted a qoute pages ago that still has me wondering....what excatly IS an "asari stir fry"?

[LPPrince]

centauri2002 wrote...

Radahldo wrote...

I remember in the first book there is that part where a krogan biotically lifts a fuel tanker (or something) and hurls it at his enemies.
I always found that to be pretty absurd. I don't remember the krogan even using biotics after that so what was even the point in establishing his strength? Karpshyns has many absurd scenarios in his books in addition to spotty grammar.
I think deception is pretty bad, but it is not Dietz took over the final book in LOTR and killed off samwise.
All these mass effect novels have been pretty average so I am suprised you all care this much.

For me, it's not necessarily about the poor writing (although, I think the writing should be held to a high standard as well). One person's tolerance for a style of writing is different to another's. I, personally, don't enjoy reading Drew's books either. But some do and they gain enjoyment from the story too.

What is really the problem here is that BioWare is allowing this book to be sold, as an official product, when it trounces over all of the lore that they have themselves established. When a company stops caring for their own IP, then I think someone should stop and say something. 

I mean, if the lore was gonna be destroyed, at least it. Could've. Been destroyed. By writing. That is better than. What. We got. I mean. Dang.

[J4N3_M3]

Relix28 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Radahldo wrote...

I had no idea so many people enjoyed Karpshyns writing. His grammar, pacing and characterization are hardlly leaps and bounds above Dietz.

O____O

By all means, Drew isn't one of the world's best writers, but lets be honest.

Dietz is miiiiiles below him. Ignoring the inconsistencies and lore, just referring to sentence structure, pacing, etc etc.

Mr. Karpyshyn suffers from his own problems and mistakes, but they are much easier to accept than Dietz's, at least for me.

This.

Drew created characters that were interesting. I'm not necessarily talking about Kahlee Sanders here but Anderson got a lot of personality for me through Drew's books. Grayson was a great character, too, IMHO. In fact, none of the characters Drew created or used in his novels were written in a boring and shallow way. 

And personally I have always liked that Sanders wasn't your elite soldier type of hero but someone who got into the middle of things by accident and made the best of it without being over the top bad ass. But that part is surely subjective. 

[Centauri2002]

Avissel wrote...

Also some one posted a qoute pages ago that still has me wondering....what excatly IS an "asari stir fry"?

Stir fried asari - delicious~

[ravene]

ok have a ? about the one amazon review for anyone who has read the book or has it and yes know this person probly never read the book but couldent pass up the glaring error in her glowing praise of the book...
does ditze state anywere in the book.. aobut "Former Navy admiral David Anderson and his partner ex Council Director Kahlee Sanders" since that line if he does would be a defent error kahlee was never part of the council.....

[LPPrince]

Avissel wrote...

Radahldo wrote...
tty bad, but it is not Dietz took over the final book in LOTR and killed off samwise.
All these mass effect novels have been pretty average so I am suprised you all care this much.

I think people are more upset because it's like Dietz took over the last LOTR book and suddnely Sam was an Orc who called Frodo "The Do-man" and the One-Ring had become  "The 6 necklaces".

To me it's not so much that the writeing is bad, but it is, it's that he seems to just seem to randomly ignore lore.

Also some one posted a qoute pages ago that still has me wondering....what excatly IS an "asari stir fry"?

Better yet, what in the bloody blue hell is an asari-style air kiss? And if its biotic, why is electricity sparking?

Oh wait.

Super Saiyans. Forgot.

Dietz was hanging out with Akira Toriyama.

[izmirtheastarach]

ravene wrote...

ok have a ? about the one amazon review for anyone who has read the book or has it and yes know this person probly never read the book but couldent pass up the glaring error in her glowing praise of the book...
does ditze state anywere in the book.. aobut "Former Navy admiral David Anderson and his partner ex Council Director Kahlee Sanders" since that line if he does would be a defent error kahlee was never part of the council.....

The Harriet Klausner Appreciation Society

[LPPrince]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Drew created characters that were interesting. I'm not necessarily talking about Kahlee Sanders here but Anderson got a lot of personality for me through Drew's books. Grayson was a great character, too, IMHO. In fact, none of the characters Drew created or used in his novels were written in a boring and shallow way. 

And personally I have always liked that Sanders wasn't your elite soldier type of hero but someone who got into the middle of things by accident and made the best of it without being over the top bad ass. But that part is surely subjective. 

Personally, I hate when people attribute everything to tropes, like calling Sanders a Mary Sue.

I judge a character solely on them, without comparing to something else. *shrugs*

So I like Kahlee.

[MissOuJ]

JakePT wrote...

Whoa, don't mean to over sell it. The 'secrecy' is simply because not all the admins are active at the same time and I don't want to promise anything specific in case we collectively decide against it. I did post a hint when I got the consent of the head admin, when I was reasonably confident we'd have something. We're at 3/4 admins right now. The 4th is yet to wake.

What we're doing is probably quite tame compared to what you're expecting, but we are sending a message. Don't want to get your hopes up. We're doing something cool to help out, but don't expect anything too drastic or original.

I think you'll appreciate it though.

Thank you guys for your hard work and effort!

I'm sure whatever you come up with is going to be awesome!

[Radahldo]

I just refuse to act as if Karpshyns set any sort of decent standards with his pervious novels. There is the part in last oke where Kai-leng swings himself like a monkey with his legs broken, or whatever. Karpshyn spends a page describing this process. The proceeding convo Kai-leng has with TIM is like two paragraphs. What sort or writer spends a page describing a man swinging on pipes? Why even write this scenario?

The comics Orson Scott Card wrote were bad too. He had Gregoir slap a pregnant Mage, I think. Perhaps bioware should set guidelines for their comissioned writers.

[Troodon80]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Seriously you guys, his sentence construction isn't that terrible. If Dietz is reading this you'll make him never want to write again.

I must admit that some of what is being said in this thread is quite harsh.

One must not forget that all the blame can't be laid solely on Dietz' shoulders. BioWare signed off on this and apparently made several corrections. Most of these errors (in consistency; lore, timeline, etc.) should have been pointed out at then, not wait for fan reaction to practically damn the book.

However, I cannot say I disagree with anything in this thread. Proper research should have been done, notes taken, and checks for consistency with the other books and games.

As constructive criticism (rather than bashing), I would advise Dietz to take more notes and do more checking as he writes. I would also advise his employers to pay more attention to the script and outline of the text, also comparing the text to what is happening inside the franchises' universe – general checks for consistency.


Also, the speed of this thread is blinding .

[Avissel]

LPPrince wrote...
Better yet, what in the bloody blue hell is an asari-style air kiss? And if its biotic, why is electricity sparking?

Oh wait.

Super Saiyans. Forgot.

Dietz was hanging out with Akira Toriyama.

The mental image I got for that was like them pushing little biotic fields at each other? Though thats still really dumb.

[Khran1505]

JoePilot wrote...

My suggestion is, to anyone who has the stomach for it and the principle to do so, cancel their preorder of the upcoming game.  If it can be demonstrated that a bad tie-in can actually decrease initial sales, that is the only way to bring Bioware to the table to open a dialogue on this.  I'm not saying you can't buy the game new at a later date (in fact, given that future DLC is a given, I see no reason not to), I'm just saying that this 'book' was a shrewd, calculated effort to boost sales, quallity be-damned, and until that ceases to be the case, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bioware to do anything but keep quiet about this.

I would if it wasn't for the fact my pre-order is the Collector's Edition which I made the mistake of cancelling once before and missing out on my pre-order when I tried it again.

[Zhuinden]

JoePilot wrote...
The damage has already been done - they let the book be released, and at this point Bioware is hoping the backlash will slowly fade away.  Lesson learned, nothing to see here, move along, etc.  There is nothing to be gained from talking if they aren't going to do anything about it (which at this point they aren't), so they aren't going to speak out on this unless and until it starts to affect them in other ways.

The primary purpose of tie-ins like this one are to increase visibility of the game being promoted and therefore increase sales.

My suggestion is, to anyone who has the stomach for it and the principle to do so, cancel their preorder of the upcoming game.  If it can be demonstrated that a bad tie-in can actually decrease initial sales, that is the only way to bring Bioware to the table to open a dialogue on this.  I'm not saying you can't buy the game new at a later date (in fact, given that future DLC is a given, I see no reason not to), I'm just saying that this 'book' was a shrewd, calculated effort to boost sales, quallity be-damned, and until that ceases to be the case, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bioware to do anything but keep quiet about this.

Think about these things the same way they do, and show them that we will not buy whatever they release without reading reviews first.  That will encourage quality.

I've already seen a few posts here saying they're cancelling their preorder because if they let Deception be a part of the ME Universe, then who knows what standards ME3 would live up to.

By the way, I guess it's fairly visible, it's about as popular for the same reasons as Rebecca Black.

Modifié par Zhuinden, 31 janvier 2012 - 04:09 .

[Eski.Moe]

In any case, we return to last year's Mass Effect - RAW event.

*Drew finishes Mass Effect: Retribution*

BAW GAWD KING! DREW HAS RETAINED THE MASS EFFECT TITLE! HE'S DONE IT! HE'S DONE IT! HE'S ON MORE FIRE THAN SOME OLD JR BBQ SAUCE!
THREE TITLES DONE AND HE JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER! A SLOBBER KNOCKER!

*Strange music hits and a man appears on the stage with a smile*

What the hell!? Is that... William C. Dietz!? NO! NO! OH MY GOD NO! HE'S GOT THE MASS EFFECT BRIEFCASE CONTRACT IN HIS HAND! HE'S GONNA CASH IN!? NO!
HE HIT HIM WITH THE BRIEFCASE! NO! NO! SONOFA*****! NOT THIS WAY!
BASTARD! 1! 2! GOD NO! 3! WHAT HAS HAPPENED!? BAHGAWD!
This is dark day in the ME Universe, folks! MAY HEAVEN HAVE MERCY ON CASEY HUDSON'S SOUL!

...

[Relix28]

JoePilot wrote...

I am hesitant to point this out, but:

The damage has already been done - they let the book be released, and at this point Bioware is hoping the backlash will slowly fade away.  Lesson learned, nothing to see here, move along, etc.  There is nothing to be gained from talking if they aren't going to do anything about it (which at this point they aren't), so they aren't going to speak out on this unless and until it starts to affect them in other ways.

The primary purpose of tie-ins like this one are to increase visibility of the game being promoted and therefore increase sales.

My suggestion is, to anyone who has the stomach for it and the principle to do so, cancel their preorder of the upcoming game.  If it can be demonstrated that a bad tie-in can actually decrease initial sales, that is the only way to bring Bioware to the table to open a dialogue on this.  I'm not saying you can't buy the game new at a later date (in fact, given that future DLC is a given, I see no reason not to), I'm just saying that this 'book' was a shrewd, calculated effort to boost sales, quallity be-damned, and until that ceases to be the case, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bioware to do anything but keep quiet about this.

Think about these things the same way they do, and show them that we will not buy whatever they release without reading reviews first.  That will encourage quality.

My 2 cents.

Why cancel the game? Dietz has nothing to do with the game (thank god for that). They are two separate products, and, if this was Bioware's big plan to promote the game, I'm fairly confident to say, that it failed, miserably.
I already canceled the book pre-order, shortly after I read the preview, but I won't cancel my ME3 pre-order, because I see no reason in doing so. 

[Khran1505]

liesandpropaganda wrote...

I honestly don't get all the outrage. In ME2 some pieces of lore were already controversial (like, things Thane and Samara say are not what is written in the codex). Of course, it wasn't as big as what the book's got, but i think it was the first sign that we shouldn't concentrate on the lore too much because even devs don't care about it. So yeah, i hardly expect any official comments about this book. At the most it would be "get over it, it's just a game" from Priestly.

It's already been made clear the Codex is in fact an in-game Wikipedia. You'll notice it even contradicts the events of the game such as how it talks about Reapers or the "Geth Attack" on the Citadel headed by Saren. It's pretty much a subtle in-game joke poking fun at internet information resources that can be easily changed by anyone.

[LPPrince]

Avissel wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Better yet, what in the bloody blue hell is an asari-style air kiss? And if its biotic, why is electricity sparking?

Oh wait.

Super Saiyans. Forgot.

Dietz was hanging out with Akira Toriyama.

The mental image I got for that was like them pushing little biotic fields at each other? Though thats still really dumb.

Jeez Dietz, if you want a 15 year old autistic kid to kiss an asari, just make her do it.

[LPPrince]

Eski.Moe wrote...

In any case, we return to last year's Mass Effect - RAW event.

*Drew finishes Mass Effect: Retribution*

BAW GAWD KING! DREW HAS RETAINED THE MASS EFFECT TITLE! HE'S DONE IT! HE'S DONE IT! HE'S ON MORE FIRE THAN SOME OLD JR BBQ SAUCE!
THREE TITLES DONE AND HE JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER! A SLOBBER KNOCKER!

*Strange music hits and a man appears on the stage with a smile*

What the hell!? Is that... William C. Dietz!? NO! NO! OH MY GOD NO! HE'S GOT THE MASS EFFECT BRIEFCASE CONTRACT IN HIS HAND! HE'S GONNA CASH IN!? NO!
HE HIT HIM WITH THE BRIEFCASE! NO! NO! SONOFA*****! NOT THIS WAY!
BASTARD! 1! 2! GOD NO! 3! WHAT HAS HAPPENED!? BAHGAWD!
This is dark day in the ME Universe, folks! MAY HEAVEN HAVE MERCY ON CASEY HUDSON'S SOUL!

...

Thanks to you I just pictured Drew Karpyshyn as Drew McIntyre.

Way to go.

[JoePilot]

Khran1505 wrote...

JoePilot wrote...

My suggestion is, to anyone who has the stomach for it and the principle to do so, cancel their preorder of the upcoming game.  If it can be demonstrated that a bad tie-in can actually decrease initial sales, that is the only way to bring Bioware to the table to open a dialogue on this.  I'm not saying you can't buy the game new at a later date (in fact, given that future DLC is a given, I see no reason not to), I'm just saying that this 'book' was a shrewd, calculated effort to boost sales, quallity be-damned, and until that ceases to be the case, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for Bioware to do anything but keep quiet about this.

I would if it wasn't for the fact my pre-order is the Collector's Edition which I made the mistake of cancelling once before and missing out on my pre-order when I tried it again.

My assertion is that there is nothing in the collector's edition that cannot be obtained after release.  Bioware is too shrewd to leave content permanently innaccesible to the market.  You may have to order it seperately, but the only thing I can see you not getting is a fabric N7 patch.  I guess my question is.....is that reason enough to encourage something like this in the future? 

Not a question I can answer for you, just food for thought.