11391 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

XXIceColdXX wrote...
Certainly have had a few good books in the Mass Effect series.

I contest that. They were ok in their plotting, but Karpyshyn's writing isn't exactly the pinnacle of the craft, and his characterization outright sucks. 

Only Deception is so much worse. Shows that there's no low end to quality.

[Centauri2002]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

The first comment would be somewhat dependent on the overall style. If we're dealing with an omniscient narrator then that's absolutely correct. If it's being written from the perspective of a character then it's fine to write like that. Although, if it's the latter, the sentence just comes off as confused so it definitely could have been worded better.

The "BOOM" segment is just... well, that was summed up quite well in green text. >.>

Modifié par centauri2002, 01 février 2012 - 11:25 .

[MissOuJ]

ZLurps wrote...

I see what you mean but it's just there isn't much what can be done. Few people throwing one liners isn't going to change anything either. I have seen it happen many times, small fraction of people defending something really awful to the end, but in the end big budget products needs masses to turn profitable and they die if they turn into something lame crap, no matter how much 2 people out there are screaming about how genious the (insert the product here) is.

It works other way around too though. Write something different and challenging and you suddenly find your product being a niche and not returning invested money either.

Deception still sucks.

You're right. I just... I thought people would be more proud of their medium and actually support people who defend the integrity of the IP they care about. Telling TPTB that just because the product they're selling is a vigeo game tie-in novel doesn't give it license to suck could actually enrich the medium and give it legitimity. But nooo, we're just fanboys (note: not girls, girls don't game, silly!) who whine for no reason...

Sorry, I'm ranting again. Will stop.

And Deception sucks.  It's a black hole of bad writing.

[mineralica]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Another thing, the bit about power levels where biotics are ranked L1 to L3:
We know that there are implants L1, L2, ..., L5n (cerberus cyber jesus in space). The novel mentions biotic power levels L1 up L3; however, this does not technically contradict canon: The fact that it was never mentioned before does not mean that it wasn't there, only that it wasn't relevant, making this merely an ass pull

@J4N3_M3: Reading comprehension fail - he left the pistol at the security station. Given that it explodes when he presses a button on the stylus he's holding the description "something that looks like a pistol" is not inaccurate since it is a explosive device disguised to look like a side arm.

L1 and so doesn't correspond to "Level". Plus, if Dietz referred to human biotic implants as "levels", then how "krogan level 3" will be explained - krogan with human implant?

Plus, L2 tend to be more powerful than L3.

And Nick has L4 implant, but he's "level 2" who trains to become "level 3". If level 2 and level 3 are implants, then Nick is very, very stupid.

[AlexMBrennan]

The green is WRONG, or at least demonstrates that the photoshop artist has the memory of a goldfish. The pistol-looking explosive device was left by Kai at the security checkpoint to create a distraction (or kill the guards, I suppose)

[ElitePinecone]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Oh, btw - re guy complaining about the use of "adept" to describe Gillian's powers:
The more uncommon of the ME class names - adept, sentinel and vanguard - are existing terms with existing definitions and meaning; contrast this with, e.g. the "vorpal" blade that was unknown prior to the use in Jabberwocky.

As such, saying that Gillian is more skilled because she's an adept is actually a tautology - an adept is, by definition "a person who is skilled" and would be more skilled than a non-adept.

Just because the ME devs picked "adept" as the name for the class does not automatically make every use of the term in a novel incorrect - that's actually a fairly clever pun, and a nice trap for the ignorant.

It's not technically incorrect in every possible situation, sure - if a biotic user is particularly skilled you could call them an adept, if they're at the front of an attack they'd be a vanguard, and standing watch would certainly make them a sentinel. Dietz doesn't do this. 

Gillian is an adept adept, but he was using the word in the sense of a gameplay class. 

But I find game tie-in novels generally find other ways of describing gameplay features in the 'real world', so that the books don't end up reading like someone actually playing the game. Drew has characters just using biotics, without calling it a "throw" or a "lift" - we can put 'power names' to some of them, but he doesn't feel the need. To my mind, it reads a lot better than what Deception did. 

It was very jarring to read things like:

The Cerberus operatives might be outnumbered and, with no Level 3 biotics of their own, vulnerable to “throws” and all the rest of it.

What happened next came as a complete surprise to the krogan as Gillian triggered the biotic power called “charge.”

"Triggered" makes me think she paused the game, brought up the power wheel and selected 'charge'.

Ditto with things like armour names or classes of biotics - it's unnecessarily 'gamey' to mention that Nick's armour is a level III Hydra Light Armour, or that he's a Level III biotic. There's surely a way to write a game tie-in that doesn't sound like it actually takes place in the game. 

(Someone made a joke about 100 pages ago that it sounded like Aria's adepts would have got a lot of XP from killing Nick)

[mineralica]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Stylus doesn't look as pistol, if you're asking for my opinion. Stylus which explodes in hand doesn't make sense as weapon at all.

[AlexMBrennan]

L1 and so doesn't correspond to "Level". Plus, if Dietz referred to human biotic implants as "levels", then how "krogan level 3" will be explained - krogan with human implant?

Plus, L2 tend to be more powerful than L3.

And Nick has L4 implant, but he's "level 2" who trains to become "level 3". If level 2 and level 3 are implants, then Nick is very, very stupid.

You can have both biotics L1,... L5n and power levels L1 to L3. That's rather confusing, but *you* invent the canon contradiction by assuming that the author confused biotic power levels with implant types rather than just making up the power levels stuff and picking a very confusing terminology

Gillian is an adept adept, but he was using the word in the sense of a gameplay class.

You're probably right then; I have to admit that I only read the free 50ish pages

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 01 février 2012 - 11:33 .

[Chewin]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I don't really think Drew could've done much better, tbh. Revan novel was pretty horrible too.

"Retconned, RETCONNED!"

But I agree. At least Drew can write a story and stick to it. Though his characterization sucks if you ask me.

[J4N3_M3]

AlexMBrennan wrote...


@J4N3_M3: Reading comprehension fail - he left the pistol at the security station. Given that it explodes when he presses a button on the stylus he's holding the description "something that looks like a pistol" is not inaccurate since it is a explosive device disguised to look like a side arm.

you guys are right. i re-read that a couple of times and now I get it. thanks! 
Says a lot about the writing if it has to be explained to me because I'm normally not that dense. 

[J4N3_M3]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

The green is WRONG, or at least demonstrates that the photoshop artist has the memory of a goldfish. The pistol-looking explosive device was left by Kai at the security checkpoint to create a distraction (or kill the guards, I suppose)

exuse me, no need to get all insulting. I have a pretty good memory but reading about the chain of events going on there and a button being pushed on the stylus I didn't make this connection with the "pistol" he left at the entrance until you pointed it out. 

[mineralica]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

L1 and so doesn't correspond to "Level". Plus, if Dietz referred to human biotic implants as "levels", then how "krogan level 3" will be explained - krogan with human implant?

Plus, L2 tend to be more powerful than L3.

And Nick has L4 implant, but he's "level 2" who trains to become "level 3". If level 2 and level 3 are implants, then Nick is very, very stupid.

You can have both biotics L1,... L5n and power levels L1 to L3. That's rather confusing, but *you* invent the canon contradiction by assuming that the author confused biotic power levels with implant types rather than just making up the power levels stuff

Okay, he made up power levels stuff - then may he be so kind to explain how power level is determined and since when they are introduced. Dietz goes into such details as "Citadel Security (C-Sec)" and describing how powers work (most evident with Charge), which can be rather evident from games, but doesn't bother to explain newly introduced thing which can potentially cause confusion with implant number?

[Khran1505]

Man, loving the attention we're getting about this. Even the negative reception is hilarious. Think how many babies the editors/browsers could have saved if they spent their time storming burning buildings instead of raging their own butthurt towards us on the internet like some hard asses because we despise a book. I'd love to see how they'd react if a book of their beloved franchise was made of pure suck.

I also loved how I managed to make one of the guys on that Inside Gaming Daily video slightly uncomfortable.

Modifié par Khran1505, 01 février 2012 - 11:39 .

[Someone With Mass]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

Dietz is such a master with adjectives.

[Zhuinden]

Japanese translation of the events, though I personally don't understand a single word of it.
Or at least, I think it is. Well, if it is, then it's a huge deal.

Modifié par Zhuinden, 01 février 2012 - 11:44 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Hey Malcolm let's talk about Deception


No?...you're probably right.

[Centauri2002]

Zhuinden wrote...

Japanese translation of the events, though I personally don't understand a single word of it.
Or at least, I think it is. Well, if it is, then it's a huge deal.

The article highlights some of the inconsistencies within the book but not what's happening here. Coverage is coverage though.

[Grey34]

Khran1505 wrote...

Man, loving the attention we're getting about this. Even the negative reception is hilarious. Think how many babies the editors/browsers could have saved if they spent their time storming burning buildings instead of raging their own butthurt towards us on the internet like some hard asses because we despise a book. I'd love to see how they'd react if a book of their beloved franchise was made of pure suck.

I also loved how I managed to make one of the guys on that Inside Gaming Daily video slightly uncomfortable.

 

lol really can i have a link to this please  

[ZLurps]

MissOuJ wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

I see what you mean but it's just there isn't much what can be done. Few people throwing one liners isn't going to change anything either. I have seen it happen many times, small fraction of people defending something really awful to the end, but in the end big budget products needs masses to turn profitable and they die if they turn into something lame crap, no matter how much 2 people out there are screaming about how genious the (insert the product here) is.

It works other way around too though. Write something different and challenging and you suddenly find your product being a niche and not returning invested money either.

Deception still sucks.

You're right. I just... I thought people would be more proud of their medium and actually support people who defend the integrity of the IP they care about. Telling TPTB that just because the product they're selling is a vigeo game tie-in novel doesn't give it license to suck could actually enrich the medium and give it legitimity. But nooo, we're just fanboys (note: not girls, girls don't game, silly!) who whine for no reason...

Sorry, I'm ranting again. Will stop.

And Deception sucks.  It's a black hole of bad writing.

When, say a game publisher goes into stock exhange market it of course gives them lot of possibilites but there is also aspect that they need to look very convincing in the eyes of share holders. Now imagine explaining why there is something, like a character some customers felt was a racist and explain that to some middle man out there managing funds of investment bank. (this is poor example I know). I think it's much easier to put money in cinematics than start taking risks with complex and challening story (which might rise controversies). After all, you can bludgeon your competitors to death with cinematics and other stuff that no small studio can even dream to have enough budget.

That's why I find it really hilarious when something like Deception gets published. I think it has looked really good somewhere inside EA.

What comes to women gamers, for me it appears they don't read the novels either. I mean how the hell Kahlee turned into housewife from the 50's American TV-show.

/Gotta go, I hope I can make it back later today.

Modifié par ZLurps, 01 février 2012 - 11:51 .

[Khran1505]

Grey34 wrote...

Khran1505 wrote...

Man, loving the attention we're getting about this. Even the negative reception is hilarious. Think how many babies the editors/browsers could have saved if they spent their time storming burning buildings instead of raging their own butthurt towards us on the internet like some hard asses because we despise a book. I'd love to see how they'd react if a book of their beloved franchise was made of pure suck.

I also loved how I managed to make one of the guys on that Inside Gaming Daily video slightly uncomfortable.

 

lol really can i have a link to this please  

Skip ahead to 1:17

[mineralica]

ZLurps wrote...

What comes to women gamers, for me it appears they don't read the novels either. I mean how the hell that Kahlee turned into housewife from the 50's American TV-show.

/Gotta go, I hope I can make it back later today.

Anderson isn't much better, so my feministic senses just facepalmed and didn't bother to go into rant.

[ddv.rsa]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

The 'pistol' was actually a bomb. Kai Leng knew the guards would confiscate it, and intended for it to explode while it was with them. There are a lot of bad things in this book but lets not go overboard. It just discredits legitimate complaints.

[J4N3_M3]

ddv.rsa wrote...

J4N3_M3 wrote...

The 'pistol' was actually a bomb. Kai Leng knew the guards would confiscate it, and intended for it to explode while it was with them. There are a lot of bad things in this book but lets not go overboard. It just discredits legitimate complaints.

AlexMBrennan wrote...


@J4N3_M3: Reading comprehension fail - he left the pistol at the security station. Given that it explodes when he presses a button on the stylus he's holding the description "something that looks like a pistol" is not inaccurate since it is a explosive device disguised to look like a side arm. 

you guys are right. i re-read that a couple of times and now I get it. thanks! 
Says a lot about the writing if it has to be explained to me because I'm normally not that dense. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie] 

PS: Yes, I am aware of that now. It took a while to figure that out. 

[LadyDrusilla]

I actually enjoyed the first three novels, even if the characterisation wasn't brilliant I think it was good enough. The only thing that bugged me was some minor references to pseudoscience (natural blondes going extinct) but that was really minor. .

[Grey34]

Khran1505 wrote...

Grey34 wrote...

Khran1505 wrote...

Man, loving the attention we're getting about this. Even the negative reception is hilarious. Think how many babies the editors/browsers could have saved if they spent their time storming burning buildings instead of raging their own butthurt towards us on the internet like some hard asses because we despise a book. I'd love to see how they'd react if a book of their beloved franchise was made of pure suck.

I also loved how I managed to make one of the guys on that Inside Gaming Daily video slightly uncomfortable.

 

lol really can i have a link to this please  

Skip ahead to 1:17

thanks it's hard to keep up lol