11391 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

jreezy wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Metal-Dragon-Kiryu wrote...

Reposting because sadly none of the news sites have mentioned this particular issue with the book...

That Guy Raffy wrote...
As someone with a sister who is severely Autistic, I'm really hurt that a writer would make a character say some snot like, "Oh, I grew out of it." No. You don't grow out of Autism. It's a disorder that nobody grows out of. Ever. After 20 years of living with her, growing up with her, feeding her, and partially raising her myself alongside my parents she hasn't improved at all. She still has the mentality of a 1 year old, the vocabulary of someone younger than that, and the social skills worse than a 2 year old's. Sure, some people might grow out of other disorders like "Social Anxiety" or "ADHD" but Autism is incurable. If Autism isn't curable by 218X, you darn well can't "grow out of it."

Maybe this was all a bit unfair for me to say because my sister wouldn't be able to understand this conversation, much less cry about it because of her Autism... Actually it might be fair; because if she was able to "grow out" of her Autistic phase in 3 years, she would've already been talking to me about how hurt she would be about a science fiction book.

Yes, this particular issue is mentioned a lot but is just skimmed over. It's probably one of the worst mistakes made in the book. Heck, I can't even put it down to a mistake as it seems quite deliberate. I'm not sure if it's ignorance that led to the decision to include this or just lack of care for the characters and the readership. Either way, it's unacceptable.

Unfortunately, Raf's post is probably destined to be overlooked.

Not if we keep bringing it up. He made an excellent point which further brought to light the trash that is Mass Effect: Deception.

I'd have Jeff put it in the OP.

[Homebound]

thats disgusting. I hope the writer takes notes and greater care for issues like that. I know we've had are laughs at the book but thats just sloppy.

[LPPrince]

Hellbound555 wrote...

thats disgusting. I hope the writer takes notes and greater care for issues like that. I know we've had are laughs at the book but thats just sloppy.

And offensive.

[ElitePinecone]

centauri2002 wrote...

Heck, I can't even put it down to a mistake as it seems quite deliberate. I'm not sure if it's ignorance that led to the decision to include this or just lack of care for the characters and the readership. Either way, it's unacceptable.

It was almost certainly deliberate, if perhaps mandated by the type of story Dietz/Bioware wanted to tell. 

She had been a very unstable twelve year-old when they first met.

Gillian felt the emotion boil up from deep inside of her. There had been a time when the combination of anger and grief would have been her undoing. But she had grown since then and learned to use hate as fuel for her talent.

She was changed from being severely autistic to a child with anger issues, who gets over it and uses hate to fuel her biotics (whatever that means). 

Even a cursory glance at Ascension would show Gillian's autism, it's mentioned a bunch of times throughout the novel and is the major feature of her character. 

Removing it doesn't seem to be just ignorance, but I wouldn't call it malevolent. Just really unfortunate and silly. Somebody thought the story would be easier, or cooler, if the protagonist was a badass but generic eighteen year old girl armed with killer biotics and vengeance against the Illusive Man, rather than a fifteen-year old autistic girl who had trouble with social interaction. 

[LPPrince]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Somebody thought the story would be easier, or cooler, if the protagonist was a badass but generic eighteen year old girl armed with killer biotics and vengeance against the Illusive Man, rather than a fifteen-year old autistic girl who had trouble with social interaction. 

Read that. Read that back to yourself.

It hurts, doesn't it.

[Saiyan1126]

ElitePinecone wrote...

The novel series will feel 'unfinished', but the way Deception 'finished it' was so artificial and maddening that I'd prefer it if I'd never read the ending. 

You're better off finishing with Retribution and pretending Deception never happens. You'll be happier with the character stories and arcs that way. 

They're definitely worth reading, they give great insights into the wider universe of ME and some specific information about Cerberus, Kai Leng and indoctrination that you probably would never get through the games. 

Regarding ME3, reading the books would make some of the locations in the game more familiar (Grissom Academy, for example) and one or two of the characters do make an appearance. 

That said, Deception has no links to ME3. It adds little if anything to the wider story of the universe. If you want to understand ME3 more, reading Revelations, Ascension and Retribution is sufficient.

Thanks, I'll get to work on reading the first 3 then.

Modifié par Saiyan1126, 01 février 2012 - 12:52 .

[CaptainZaysh]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

I've played both games, played all the DLCs, and read all the comics. I was planning on reading all the books before 3/6 to get my full Mass Effect experience. I have a question for anyone who has read all the books; is there any point in reading them? My free time is limited, but I was planning on taking a hit for Mass Effect. From what I'm seeing now, it looks like these books will be painful to read. Will any of the novel exclusive characters be in ME3? If not, will there be any benefit whatsoever from reading the novels? I'm looking for something at least like what the Redemption comics did for ME2/LotSB.

Personally I'd advise against it: I thought the first three books were plodding, unimaginative, and hugely limited in scope.  I don't think they gave me any new insights into the games whatsoever.  Galactic scale power players like Anderson and The Illusive Man solve all of their problems not through leadership and hard decision making but by running through corridors shooting people in the head with guns.  All three books felt to me like accounts of an ME1 side mission written by someone who wasn't really that interested in what was going on except the pew pew bits.  In my opinion they are shockingly bad and boring novels - certainly among the worst things I've ever read.

[LPPrince]

I recommend reading the first three books.

Just don't read Deception. For the love of everything, don't read Deception.

[Haasth]

Well I managed to get to Chapter 10... Not sure why, honestly.

It's really generic for the most part. Characters are uninteresting and really rely on previous lore established about them to make them even remotely interesting. 

It relies so much on the Mass Effect universe to make it even a little entertaining and even then it's mostly a glorified wiki page that makes grave mistakes (To the point where it ignores all the novels before Deception at times) every page or so. 

Modifié par Haasth, 01 février 2012 - 12:55 .

[Homebound]

u know what we need now? a conrad verner spin-off novel series depicting the 2 years of his life after Shepard's death.

because it can only get better from here on out.

Modifié par Hellbound555, 01 février 2012 - 12:55 .

[ddv.rsa]

LPPrince wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Not if we keep bringing it up. He made an excellent point which further brought to light the trash that is Mass Effect: Deception.

I'd have Jeff put it in the OP.

That is a good idea. Bioware can ignore 'nerd rage' all they want, but they simply cannot ignore being called out for the way they've handled autism.

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 01 février 2012 - 12:56 .

[LPPrince]

Hellbound555 wrote...

u know what we need now? a conrad verner spin-off novel series depicting the 2 years of his life after Shepard's death.

because it can only get better from here on out.

If its written by Drew Karpyshyn and whoever's behind the Conrad Verner bits, I'm not complaining. Rofl.

[Arcadian Legend]

Haasth wrote...

Well I managed to get to Chapter 10... Not sure why, honestly.

It's really generic for the most part. Characters are uninteresting and really rely on previous lore established about them to make them even remotely interesting. 

It relies so much on the Mass Effect universe to make it even a little entertaining and even then it's mostly a glorified wiki page that makes grave mistakes (To the point where it ignores all the novels before Deception at times) every page or so. 

Funny you say that, the ME Wiki folks don't want to touch it with a 20ft pole.

[CashGrab]

ddv.rsa wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Not if we keep bringing it up. He made an excellent point which further brought to light the trash that is Mass Effect: Deception.

I'd have Jeff put it in the OP.

That is a good idea. Bioware can ignore 'nerd rage' all they want, but they simply cannot ignore being called out for the way they've handled autism.

Ditto, let it be done and be another shot for the goal of non-canonicty

[J4N3_M3]

What is this monorail Dietz speaks of, that looms overhead in the wards of the Citadel?

[Saiyan1126]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Personally I'd advise against it: I thought the first three books were plodding, unimaginative, and hugely limited in scope.  I don't think they gave me any new insights into the games whatsoever.  Galactic scale power players like Anderson and The Illusive Man solve all of their problems not through leadership and hard decision making but by running through corridors shooting people in the head with guns.  All three books felt to me like accounts of an ME1 side mission written by someone who wasn't really that interested in what was going on except the pew pew bits.  In my opinion they are shockingly bad and boring novels - certainly among the worst things I've ever read.

Hahaha. A complete opposite opinion from ElitePinecone. Now I'm conflicted again

[Homebound]

J4N3_M3 wrote...

What is this monorail Dietz speaks of, that looms overhead in the wards of the Citadel?

didnt u hear? the citadel council build an amusement ride to offset the costs of rebuilding.

[Meta Ray Mek]

Chalk me up as someone who's severely disappointed in the gaming journo sites not even mentioning the Gillian or Hendel issues.

I can take or leave a lot of the lore errors, but those two are the ones that need to be called out specifically.

[SkittlesKat96]

ddv.rsa wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Not if we keep bringing it up. He made an excellent point which further brought to light the trash that is Mass Effect: Deception.

I'd have Jeff put it in the OP.

That is a good idea. Bioware can ignore 'nerd rage' all they want, but they simply cannot ignore being called out for the way they've handled autism.

Erm, what exactly are you guys expecting to happen with this? Do you want people to insult Dietz or sue him or have him arrested or something? Not sure what the objective is here. 

Also ihow is Bioware suddenly the ones behind this? Unless Dietz is 'they' which is obviously not what you meant

[Homebound]

jreezy wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...

She was changed from being severely autistic to a child with anger issues, who gets over it and uses hate to fuel her biotics (whatever that means). 

Dark Side powers. The unintentional (or intentional, I can't even tell anymore) parallels with Star Wars is hilarious.

So..Jack with mental illness instead of abandonment issues.

[Saiyan1126]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Somebody thought the story would be easier, or cooler, if the protagonist was a badass but generic eighteen year old girl armed with killer biotics and vengeance against the Illusive Man

So she's just a young Jack minus the emotional scars?