11391 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
snip

The characters who know about Cerberus in detail during ME2 are, respectively, a top-ranking Alliance soldier, a top-ranking quarian operative and several of the galaxy's most notorious criminals, bounty hunters, soldiers and scientists. 

The Citadel Council officially put Cerberus on a terrorist blacklist. As overloaded with news and entertainment as the fine citizens of the galaxy are, I'm sure many of them have heard the name of the pro-human extremist organisation, particularly when humanity are the target of many alien species for expanding too quickly and becoming too influential. 

But for the organisation itself to worry about its credibility? To do polling?

To do polling on alien worlds, to find out how much aliens don't like them?

It's laughable. 

And you think it's unimportant to know how people feel about you? LOL.

Cerberus wants to stand as the leader of humanity. I didn't think TIM really cared that much about what the aliens think of Cerberus but what humans think.

You think public opinion is irrelevant to terrorist organizations? Again just LOL, look in reality. They all care about the press.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[Khran1505]

I love you.

Modifié par Khran1505, 01 février 2012 - 04:26 .

[MissOuJ]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

She's smart, powerful and manipulative.

Hold that thought. Let's examine it a bit closer.

Gillian is autistic. This means she doesn't think like neuroatypical people do. The social consept of manipulation is most likely completely alien to her. Particularly if she had difficulties with social interactions (like she did in Ascension).

[LPPrince]

JoePilot wrote...

http://img837.images...8/kroganwat.jpg

I cried.

Modifié par LPPrince, 01 février 2012 - 04:28 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Hold that thought. Let's examine it a bit closer.

The autism is gone. It's by far the biggest BS in the books, but nowhere close to Shepard's death.

[JamesFaith]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I do admit that I would have wanted for Cerberus to capture Gillian, and for her to join them or something. The whole age and autism thing is done very very poorly but I do like her as a character in the novel, besides the whole rage issue.

She's smart, powerful and manipulative.

When you said smart, did you thing the same girl, who thought, that paranoic leader of terrosist organization will come alone on Omega to personally pay ransom? 

[MissOuJ]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

And you think it's unimportant to know how people feel about you? LOL.

Cerberus wants to stand as the leader of humanity. I didn't think TIM really cared that much about what the aliens think of Cerberus but what humans think.

You think public opinion is irrelevant to terrorist organizations? Again just LOL, look in reality. They all care about the press.

Secret terrorist organizations hardly poll Joe Sixpacks on the streets.

Nor do they pull guerilla advertising tactics in a space station where most of the population is alien.

[Dagon]

[/quote]

Awesome Wrex reading a *****book:whistle:

[izmirtheastarach]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Hold that thought. Let's examine it a bit closer.

The autism is gone. It's by far the biggest BS in the books, but nowhere close to Shepard's death.

I've been reading through this morning's posts, and I'm still not sure why you keep bringing up the completely off-toic point. Shepard's death has nothing whatsoever to do with this book.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 01 février 2012 - 04:30 .

[nitefyre410]

MissOuJ wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

She's smart, powerful and manipulative.

Hold that thought. Let's examine it a bit closer.

Gillian is autistic. This means she doesn't think like neuroatypical people do. The social consept of manipulation is most likely completely alien to her. Particularly if she had difficulties with social interactions (like she did in Ascension).

 


Lets not the facts about Autism getting on the way of a good argument shall we or in this case writing  the book that you want. 

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Hold that thought. Let's examine it a bit closer.

The autism is gone. It's by far the biggest BS in the books, but nowhere close to Shepard's death.

I've been reading through this morning's posts, and I'm still not sure why you keep bringing up the completely off-toic point. Shepard's death has nothing whatsoever to do with this book.

 


Sir because the Strawman is not a lie and  it does exist.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 01 février 2012 - 04:33 .

[nitefyre410]

*delete*

Modifié par nitefyre410, 01 février 2012 - 04:33 .

[Costin_Razvan]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Hold that thought. Let's examine it a bit closer.

The autism is gone. It's by far the biggest BS in the books, but nowhere close to Shepard's death.

I've been reading through this morning's posts, and I'm still not sure why you keep bringing up the completely off-toic point. Shepard's death has nothing whatsoever to do with this book.

The discussion on this thread is that Deception ignores many things about the lore of ME and about well realism, the autism thing being one of the biggest issues.

The reason why I bring up Shepard's death is that it shouldn't be forgotten that the ME writing team pulled even bigger BS then what Deception does in the entire novel.

 
When you said smart, did you thing the same girl, who thought, that paranoic leader of terrosist organization will come alone on Omega to personally pay ransom?  

She knew Leng was important to TIM, very important even as in his most trusted and capable agent. I kinda doubt she trully believed TIM would actually show up there in person but it wasn't a bad plan on her end.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 février 2012 - 04:34 .

[MissOuJ]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The autism is gone. It's by far the biggest BS in the books, but nowhere close to Shepard's death.

Yes it is.

Because bringing your main character back from death is in no way insulting.

Rewriting an autistic individual into a neurotypical individual is.

[CDRSkyShepard]

LPPrince wrote...

JoePilot wrote...

http://img837.images...8/kroganwat.jpg

I cried.

This must happen in ME3...I don't care if they're done with the dialogue or not.

The books appear in the game. This one should and Wrex should be all, "None of that story made any kind of sense, Shepard..."

[Costin_Razvan]

Yes it is.

Because bringing your main character back from death is in no way insulting.

Not insulting? At least with Gillian we know, from Ascension, that Sanders believed the Cerberus drugs where causing it. She wasn't entirely sure, but it's not completely unreasonable. Yes it's still BS and it does ignore that autism is a severe issue, but at least they tried to explain it even if it came of in the "It's magic" area.

However, ignoring the laws that govern our very universe to bring Shepard back...well that's insulting to my intelligence.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 01 février 2012 - 04:38 .

[LPPrince]

Barring the status of importance of the characters in question, I'd say rewriting an autistic character into someone who doesn't have it is MUCH worse than writing a dead character back to life.

Reason being that the dead character was brought back to life in the same story and not another installment. So for example, to me, this is the level of WHAT THE HELL between four instances of plot switches-

1. Autistic Gillian not being Autistic(Ascension to Deception)
2. Homosexual Hendel not being homosexual(Ascension to Deception)
3. Ugho being dead and then mysteriously alive(Ascension to Deception)
4. Shepard being dead and then revived(Mass Effect 2)

[LPPrince]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

JoePilot wrote...

http://img837.images...8/kroganwat.jpg

I cried.

This must happen in ME3...I don't care if they're done with the dialogue or not.

The books appear in the game. This one should and Wrex should be all, "None of that story made any kind of sense, Shepard..."

I'd go for it.

[izmirtheastarach]

Costin_Razvan wrote...


The discussion on this thread is that Deception ignores many things about the lore of ME and about well realism, the autism thing being one of the biggest issues.

The reason why I bring up Shepard's death is that it shouldn't be forgotten that the ME writing team pulled even bigger BS then what Deception does in the entire novel.

So...the comparison is between a decision that the ME writing team made in the games that you disagree with, and a book full of problems, written by an author with no connection to the ME team at all? I'm not sure why that's relevant. Especially when it seems quite clear that that vast majority of ME fans were perfectly fine with how Shepard's death was handled. You aren't, but that's just your own personal opinion.

Either way, the fact remains that the overwhelming majority of fans are not okay with how this book handles it's settings and characters. The only thing you prove by arguing the facts is that you have lower standards then the rest of us.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Yes it is.

Because bringing your main character back from death is in no way insulting.

Not insulting? At least with Gillian we know, from Ascension, that Sanders believed the Cerberus drugs where causing it. She wasn't entirely sure, but it's not completely unreasonable.

However, ignoring the laws that govern our very universe to bring Shepard back...well that's insulting to my intelligence.

At no point did Kahlee suspect the drugs were causing the autism itself...

Gillian had been autistic from the moment she was adopted. Cerberus didn't "do" anything. Kahlee suspected the drugs were merely making her more unstable.

[LPPrince]

There is no way that Shepard being brought back to life is bad. Not in the way that Gillian's autism is.

Gillian's loss of autism is INSULTING.

Shepard's revival was a plot device. It hurts no one's feelings.

[LGTX]

LPPrince wrote...

JoePilot wrote...

http://img837.images...8/kroganwat.jpg

I cried.

Oh wow. This is it... the most perfect and all-encompassing Deception hate pic ever.

[izmirtheastarach]

The reason Ugho is alive is because Dietz is incapable of creating names for aliens. Copy paste....done.

[Heraxion]

LPPrince wrote...

Barring the status of importance of the characters in question, I'd say rewriting an autistic character into someone who doesn't have it is MUCH worse than writing a dead character back to life.

Reason being that the dead character was brought back to life in the same story and not another installment. So for example, to me, this is the level of WHAT THE HELL between four instances of plot switches-

1. Autistic Gillian not being Autistic(Ascension to Deception)
2. Homosexual Hendel not being homosexual(Ascension to Deception)
3. Ugho being dead and then mysteriously alive(Ascension to Deception)
4. Shepard being dead and then revived(Mass Effect 2)

I would put Gillians jewel mysteriously containing images of Greysons transformation there aswell.

[LPPrince]

Heraxion wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Barring the status of importance of the characters in question, I'd say rewriting an autistic character into someone who doesn't have it is MUCH worse than writing a dead character back to life.

Reason being that the dead character was brought back to life in the same story and not another installment. So for example, to me, this is the level of WHAT THE HELL between four instances of plot switches-

1. Autistic Gillian not being Autistic(Ascension to Deception)
2. Homosexual Hendel not being homosexual(Ascension to Deception)
3. Ugho being dead and then mysteriously alive(Ascension to Deception)
4. Shepard being dead and then revived(Mass Effect 2)

I would put Gillians jewel mysteriously containing images of Greysons transformation there aswell.

My point is that 1 and 2 are insulting to readers.

3 and 4 are similar to each other as they insult no one, but 3 is worse because it happened in different stories with NO explanation, while 4 happened in the same story WITH an explanation.

[AresXX7]

Good to see the thread is still alive & well.
I still see some people are suggesting Gillian's autism could have been caused by the drugs from Cerberus.

Here's an excerpt from page 41 of Ascension:


"Even among the remarkable children of the Ascension Project, Gillian was special. At age three she was diagnosed with a mild form of high-functioning autism; it had almost caused the board to reject her application to the Academy."



If this has been posted before, just think of it as friendly reminder.


BTW, Deception still sucks.

Modifié par AresXX7, 01 février 2012 - 04:51 .