11391 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuoaman]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I kind of feel like discussing this with someone who thinks this book is good, is kind of pointless. Some people will accept whatever crap they are given. Nothing we can say will change that.

BUT IT'S MASS EFFECT RELATED.

[Arcadian Legend]

Yuoaman wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

JoeLaTurkey wrote...

Luigitornado wrote...

Almost done with the book, and in my opinion all of you are drama queens. The writing is not up to snuff, and there are gramatical errors and such.

Like I said I would. I'm enjoying the book for what it is.

Not sure if serious...

The story is solid, and fairly entertaining like the past ones.

Yeah, if anything interesting happened, any of the characters acted in character, and if the prose weren't absolute **** - sure it would be entertaining.

Also it added next to nothing to the ME story in the grand scheme of things I respect your opinion though thaat you actually do like t however.

[rapscallioness]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

I don't really see why you have any problem with this - it's our free time, and we're free to do what we want with it.

You know, I love how "nitpicking" has become a very negative term. There used to be a day where "nitpicking" meant that you were a genuine fan that cared about a franchise enough to point out discrepencies...not necessarily to say "Haha creators of lore, I am smarter than you!" but to legitimately help out the creators of lore. For any of you all that are Star Trek fans out there, I recommend "The Nitpicker's Guide for Next Generation Trekkers." It goes through every episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation and points out every inconsistency like we have been doing for Deception. The author doesn't do it out of spite, he does it out of genuine love and care for the lore. I can safely say that my involvement here with Deception is out of genuine love and care for the Mass Effect story. Most likely, that's why everyone is here: because we care.

Now, all the sudden nitpicking is a form of trolling. Sure, it might be on the edge, but only if you do it because you want to go looking for something to complain about for the sake of complaining. Granted, the BSN is rife with such things, but I highly doubt the vast majority of us are that way.

There's also a certain bit of fun in nitpicking for me at least...it challenges me to question what the loremasters have put in front of me, to make sure I'm not just being fed crap without thinking about it. With a project such as this, once I find major plot inconsistencies, I start looking at the finer details to see how many of those are messed up in addition to the bigger things. Once you notice something hugely wrong, you start to zero in on other things that may have escaped your attention had the other, bigger thing not caught your eye in the first place.

Amirite, folks?

Yes, you're both right. It is your free time to do with as you will. And I guess it's ...nice...to have fans that care so much.

Just as long as it doesn't completely devolve into just being a bully.

I see some people talking about Dietz offering an apology, and being ticked off because of him promoting his book on his Twitter. I gotta tell you, I'm pretty sure he's contractually obligated to promote his book whenever and however he can.

His publishers are not going to stand by while he says, "Sorry guys. It sucks. I know." Because then he's messing with their money.  And though the wrath of BSN is mighty, it is nothing compared to the wrath of a Corp. that thinks you just screwed them out of their potential money. No.

I don't know what BW's agreement is, but they're not messing with the money , either. And they're definitely not going to disavow it.

I do hope they pay attention to this thread and understand that next time they need to do it right. Come correct, or don't come at all.

So, I don't have a problem with this thread. It's just that some of the posts seem to want to hunt Dietz down. In a manner of speaking.

It's one thing to hold him accountable. It's another to humiliate him.

[Yuoaman]

Yeah, people are free to enjoy the book - but even so, you have to admit that it's crazy flawed.

[izmirtheastarach]

Yuoaman wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I kind of feel like discussing this with someone who thinks this book is good, is kind of pointless. Some people will accept whatever crap they are given. Nothing we can say will change that.

BUT IT'S MASS EFFECT RELATED.

That's the argument I got from that reviewer on Amazon, that any true ME fan would love everything they were given. It's a pretty silly position to take. You need to be able to judge things on their own merits.

[OniRogue]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I kind of feel like discussing this with someone who thinks this book is good, is kind of pointless. Some people will accept whatever crap they are given. Nothing we can say will change that.

Well it's within their rights. I can enjoy a plethora of things that are "universally" regarded as bad and enjoy them.

But that does not make me oblivious to the glaring flaws inherent to them. Saying that they like the book despite its problems is perfectly fine by me, as long as they don't act like the issues aren't there:bandit:

[didymos1120]

Luigitornado wrote...

The story is solid, and fairly entertaining like the past ones.

[nitefyre410]

MisterJB wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

You've got to love Gillian's logic here:

Because if Cerberus was anywhere, it would have to be represented on Omega.

Now, as of Retribution, this happens to be true, but no one told Gillian about that. If you were just working on general knowledge, Omega is about the last place you'd expect to find a significant Cerberus presence.

This is the same girl who tought she could convince TIM to go to Omega in person, alone and unarmed.

 


Oh he has that girl running with the Idoit ball better than Walter Payton,  Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders... combined. Some needs to give her a contract and signing bonus. 

[izmirtheastarach]

rapscallioness wrote...

It's one thing to hold him accountable. It's another to humiliate him.

I feel like I addressed this earlier with another commenter. I totally agree that their are lines that should not be crossed. But telling Dietz that his book is terrible is perfectly acceptable. If this is the quality of his writing, then he doesn't deserve anything.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 02 février 2012 - 12:37 .

[Balmung31]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if I didn't believe - in the very fiber of my being - that one writer at BioWare taking a few hours to read this book before it went to print would have solved at least 90% of the (major) continuity issues. Just one, just a few hours to sit down and read it. Would it have taken more time from them afterward to address such issues with Dietz? Yeah, but I maintain that it would've been more honorable to cancel the book or postpone it until after the release of ME3 (at which point they would have plenty of time to work on it) than to play ostritch and hope that everything will work out the way its supposed to.

In the military, we have a saying: "Trust, but verify." This did NOT happen at BioWare with this book, and it's painfully obvious.

The sad truth is, we will never know just what exactly the process was.  Were there people more concerned with milking the franchise pressuring those who wanted quality work?  Higher-ups who have nothing to do with Mass Effect telling those who do, to get this, this and this done by this date, perhaps?  Were there people demoted or reassigned who may have voiced their concerns to those in charge? 

All we can do is speculate.  No one will ever really say what happened. 

[Heraxion]

nitefyre410 wrote...


Oh he has that girl running with the Idoit ball better than Walter Payton,  Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders... combined. Some needs to give her a contract and signing bonus. 

Hey, she isn't a total idiot. She was able to convince a terrorist organization to derail their plans and go after another terrorist organization instead after being a member for 5 minutes.  And she came up with a plan to kill the Illusive man without have any information at all.

Modifié par Heraxion, 02 février 2012 - 12:39 .

[Yuoaman]

jreezy wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

I would just wait if I were them. Once it is absolutely certain that this is either canon or stricken from the records then they can proceed.

That's pretty much what they're doing, no one on the Wiki is happy about this stuff.

[izmirtheastarach]

Heraxion wrote...

Hey, she isn't a total idiot, she was able to convince a terrorist organization to derail their plans and go after another terrorist organization instead.  And she came up with a plan to kill the Illusive man without have any information at all. In the scope of 10 minutes.

And the plan was ridiculous and based on nothing. Why would the Illusive man value Kai Leng over his own life. What are they, in love? And he dumb plan gets her killed.

[Almostfaceman]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

They'll just mention the discrepancies in Trivia so we can all point at it and giggle I suppose.

[Yuoaman]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Heraxion wrote...

Hey, she isn't a total idiot, she was able to convince a terrorist organization to derail their plans and go after another terrorist organization instead.  And she came up with a plan to kill the Illusive man without have any information at all. In the scope of 10 minutes.

And the plan was ridiculous and based on nothing. Why would the Illusive man value Kai Leng over his own life. What are they, in love? And he dumb plan gets her killed.

TIM x Kai Leng?

[Heraxion]

izmirtheastarach wrote...


And the plan was ridiculous and based on nothing. Why would the Illusive man value Kai Leng over his own life. What are they, in love? And he dumb plan gets her killed.

The moment Gillian was carrying out her plan was actually the only moment of real tension for me. I was so afraid that the Illusive man would break character like everyone else and actually show up. Would have totally ruined him for me.


Wait, maybe Dietz wrote the book like this on purpose to create this tension!

Modifié par Heraxion, 02 février 2012 - 12:44 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Almostfaceman wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

They'll just mention the discrepancies in Trivia so we can all point at it and giggle I suppose.

Only if they get something official. If Bioware tells them it's canon, then they will update every page that is affected. They will make tons of contradiction notes. And that will suck. Remember, it's not just that they have to write a synopsis of the book. Dozens of articles are affected by all these contradictions.

[nitefyre410]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

 

The questions is what can they do? 

They are in  a bind because  if this stands as cannon its completely makes  everything  FUBAR.  

I think i read that according to some errors this book makes the Invasion comic  almost null and void.

[izmirtheastarach]

Heraxion wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...


And the plan was ridiculous and based on nothing. Why would the Illusive man value Kai Leng over his own life. What are they, in love? And he dumb plan gets her killed.

The moment she was carrying out this plan was actually the only moment of real tension for me. I was so afraid that the Illusive man would break character like everyone else and actually show up. Would have totally ruined him for me.

That's a really good point. It's one of the only points where someone acts totally in character. TiM would never show up to an obvious trap like that.

[rapscallioness]

Yuoaman wrote...

Yeah, people are free to enjoy the book - but even so, you have to admit that it's crazy flawed.

Yeah, it is crazy flawed. And it is bad writing. Plain and simple. It angers me actually that Dietz was sought out and paid for this.

I just don't want it to go to a bad place. For the most part, tho, I've been enjoying this thread. It's a good thread.

[izmirtheastarach]

nitefyre410 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

 

The questions is what can they do? 

They are in  a bind because  if this stands as cannon its completely makes  everything  FUBAR.  

I think i read that according to some errors this book makes the Invasion comic  almost null and void.

Aria finds out that Cerberus killed her daughter. And then in Invasion she works with them as thought everything is fine.

[CDRSkyShepard]

rapscallioness wrote...

Yes, you're both right. It is your free time to do with as you will. And I guess it's ...nice...to have fans that care so much.

Just as long as it doesn't completely devolve into just being a bully.

I see some people talking about Dietz offering an apology, and being ticked off because of him promoting his book on his Twitter. I gotta tell you, I'm pretty sure he's contractually obligated to promote his book whenever and however he can.

His publishers are not going to stand by while he says, "Sorry guys. It sucks. I know." Because then he's messing with their money.  And though the wrath of BSN is mighty, it is nothing compared to the wrath of a Corp. that thinks you just screwed them out of their potential money. No.

I don't know what BW's agreement is, but they're not messing with the money , either. And they're definitely not going to disavow it.

I do hope they pay attention to this thread and understand that next time they need to do it right. Come correct, or don't come at all.

So, I don't have a problem with this thread. It's just that some of the posts seem to want to hunt Dietz down. In a manner of speaking.

It's one thing to hold him accountable. It's another to humiliate him.

I see where you're coming from, and believe you me...Dietz and the ME team are the people I don't want to be right now. Hell hath no fury like a fanbase scorned.

But, to my knowledge, no one is "bullying" Dietz or anyone else. Are we being incredibly vocal in our displeasure? Definitely. Are we being disrespectful about it? On the whole, no. (I can't speak for individuals, just for the trend)

You bring up a good point on contract obligations, and I can't fault a writer for not saying "Hey guys, my book sucks." But when you accept this contract, you agree to put out a good product, in a sense. Not that we can prove Dietz didn't care about what he was doing, but man, some of this stuff would have been easily resolved had he looked up the Mass Effect Wiki or opened up the Codex in the game. Combine that with the fact that we have an email of him saying that as part of the process, he plays the game and takes notes, and confers with BioWare through each step of the process...it makes you raise your eyebrows. Then he comes out and waves his own happy flag. What reaction do you expect other than a bunch of eye rolls? While I don't want to drag the guy through the mud any more than necessary, I also can't say that the guy didn't bring this on himself to some extent.

Call him on it? Make it known that a lot of ME fans are very upset over this? OH yeah. Humiliate him? Not our intent. Or, at least not mine, anyway.

[didymos1120]

nitefyre410 wrote...


I think i read that according to some errors this book makes the Invasion comic  almost null and void.

It makes the way Aria behave in Invasion make zero sense, yes.  But if anything, Invasion is what nullifies Deception.  It's definitely canon and staying that way, and it just completely ignores Deception.