11391 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

Heraxion wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


Oh he has that girl running with the Idoit ball better than Walter Payton,  Jim Brown, Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders... combined. Some needs to give her a contract and signing bonus. 

Hey, she isn't a total idiot. She was able to convince a terrorist organization to derail their plans and go after another terrorist organization instead after being a member for 5 minutes.  And she came up with a plan to kill the Illusive man without have any information at all.

 


That is true but  I'm not grading on the Lebron  curve you don't get to be great in the regular season and not show up in the finals.    
 

[XXIceColdXX]

[Violation of Rule #2 removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 02 février 2012 - 01:07 .

[Yuoaman]

didymos1120 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


I think i read that according to some errors this book makes the Invasion comic  almost null and void.

It makes the way Aria behave in Invasion make zero sense, yes.  But if anything, Invasion is what nullifies Deception.  It's definitely canon and staying that way, and it just completely ignores Deception.

Invasion is definitely a better lead-up to ME3.

And I think I know why Aria was willing to work with Cerberus... all of those T'Loak family members convinced her to. Makes perfect sense.

[kidbd15]

Balmung31 wrote...

kidbd15 wrote...

Balmung31 wrote...

kidbd15 wrote...

I blame BioWare more than the author... BioWare employed this author, and didn't check his work, and let this ship

If the reason was because their attention was far more focused on ME3, I'd be willing to give them a pass. 

That's not to say this book shouldn't be disavowed by them, it should.  I just think Bioware has a heckuva lot on their plate with ME3.

Not a reason, at all.  If they didn't have the time or resources to check the man's work, then DON'T commission the book at all.  At the end of the day, every single ME item, from the games down to the smallest key chain, should be checked.  Quality control.  The ME name has standards to live up to, that's quality controls job.

Whatever Bioware may be, they're still just people.  People make mistakes.  Sometimes big ones, sometimes little ones. 

This was most definitely a mistake.  You may well be right that they shouldn't even have commisioned the job in the first place.  Actually I tend to think that, too.  I'd rather they keep as much focus on just the game itself, and not be distracted by having to keep track of, at best, ancillary material.  I like things that can expand a universe as much as the next fan, but if it in any way detracts from the quality of what is your main method of conveying said universe (IE, the games)?  Just let it go. 

Still, I don't feel the need to rake them over the coals, so to speak.  Just voice my displeasure. 

Agreed. I am not putting them over the coals or anything, but this type of reaction needed to happen and catch the attention of gaming media, or else BioWare will keep doing it.  Look at their reaction so far, they haven't even made a comment about it, which is bad IMO.  Admitting to this mistake will definitely go a long way, for me anyways, and will further convince me that they will in fact not do this type of shoddy work again.

[JoeLaTurkey]

Yuoaman wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...


I think i read that according to some errors this book makes the Invasion comic  almost null and void.

It makes the way Aria behave in Invasion make zero sense, yes.  But if anything, Invasion is what nullifies Deception.  It's definitely canon and staying that way, and it just completely ignores Deception.

Invasion is definitely a better lead-up to ME3.

And I think I know why Aria was willing to work with Cerberus... all of those T'Loak family members convinced her to. Makes perfect sense.

Non-existent people making a non-existent proposal?

Yeah, I buy it 

[izmirtheastarach]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

But, to my knowledge, no one is "bullying" Dietz or anyone else. Are we being incredibly vocal in our displeasure? Definitely. Are we being disrespectful about it? On the whole, no. (I can't speak for individuals, just for the trend)

Call him on it? Make it known that a lot of ME fans are very upset over this? OH yeah. Humiliate him? Not our intent. Or, at least not mine, anyway.

This is right in line with my feelings. No one's going to the guy's house. No one's calling him on the phone. He clearly doesn't use twitter much, so this is probably the most attention he's ever gotten.

He wrote a terribly poorly written book. He doesn't deserve the advance he got, no matter what it was. There are far more talented writers out there looking for work. It's maddening to me.

[Wulfram]

I very much doubt there'll be any official disavowing of it's canonicity any time soon.
At most, you might see a few of the more troublesome things for the lore in general being implicitly retconned by subsequent contradiction, and the rest simply ignored.

[ZLurps]

Many of us has laughed to the cereal killer Leng but I came to think what if Deception would actually follow the canon.


Leng contacts TIM:
Leng "Grayson daughter is alive"
TIM - "Grayson's daughter Gillian. On the one hand she seems like a somewhat overwrought 13 year old who is mourning her father. As such she deserves our patience and understanding."
"However," the Illusive Man continued as he tapped some ash into a tray, "Autism is a very dangerous thing."
"So in considering Gillian's fate it's important to look beyond what she is to what she might become. And that is someone dangerous.
Leng: "Understood"

I wonder how audience would experience TIM after that one. Our master mind antagonist sipping bourbon, smoking and being afraid of 13 years old girl.

[Yuoaman]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

But, to my knowledge, no one is "bullying" Dietz or anyone else. Are we being incredibly vocal in our displeasure? Definitely. Are we being disrespectful about it? On the whole, no. (I can't speak for individuals, just for the trend)

Call him on it? Make it known that a lot of ME fans are very upset over this? OH yeah. Humiliate him? Not our intent. Or, at least not mine, anyway.

This is right in line with my feelings. No one's going to the guy's house. No one's calling him on the phone. He clearly doesn't use twitter much, so this is probably the most attention he's ever gotten.

He wrote a terribly poorly written book. He doesn't deserve the advance he got, no matter what it was. There are far more talented writers out there looking for work. It's maddening to me.

Yeah, and I'm sure that Bioware has writers actually on the Mass Effect project that would have been willing to write it.

[LumpOfCole]

I don't think Bioware will announce it being non-canonical, but I can see Bioware ignoring everything about the book the same way George Lucas completely ignores the Star Wars Holiday Special as if it never happened.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Yuoaman wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

But, to my knowledge, no one is "bullying" Dietz or anyone else. Are we being incredibly vocal in our displeasure? Definitely. Are we being disrespectful about it? On the whole, no. (I can't speak for individuals, just for the trend)

Call him on it? Make it known that a lot of ME fans are very upset over this? OH yeah. Humiliate him? Not our intent. Or, at least not mine, anyway.

This is right in line with my feelings. No one's going to the guy's house. No one's calling him on the phone. He clearly doesn't use twitter much, so this is probably the most attention he's ever gotten.

He wrote a terribly poorly written book. He doesn't deserve the advance he got, no matter what it was. There are far more talented writers out there looking for work. It's maddening to me.

Yeah, and I'm sure that Bioware has writers actually on the Mass Effect project that would have been willing to write it.

Eh, not so sure about that one...they're probably all dead exhausted and didn't want another project. That's why they hired Dietz.

[ABCoLD]

Added some references/cites for the Wikipedia article about the universal condemnation.

[XXIceColdXX]

Wulfram wrote...

I very much doubt there'll be any official disavowing of it's canonicity any time soon.
At most, you might see a few of the more troublesome things for the lore in general being implicitly retconned by subsequent contradiction, and the rest simply ignored.

You may be right, but

Ive still got a stong feeling Bioware will denounce this as canon sometime soon. News of Deceptions faults is really starting to get around the net now. 

Modifié par XXIceColdXX, 02 février 2012 - 01:01 .

[LegionMan]

Am I the only one who read the title as Mass Effect:  Decepticon?  Then again, that might have been an improvement...

[Balmung31]

kidbd15 wrote...

Agreed. I am not putting them over the coals or anything, but this type of reaction needed to happen and catch the attention of gaming media, or else BioWare will keep doing it.  Look at their reaction so far, they haven't even made a comment about it, which is bad IMO.  Admitting to this mistake will definitely go a long way, for me anyways, and will further convince me that they will in fact not do this type of shoddy work again.

I really think they're having to juggle all sorts of things before they comment on this.  There's all sorts of people they could ****** off besides us if they're not careful with how they word their response.  Mainly those in the marketing department, I'd guess.

[rapscallioness]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

It's one thing to hold him accountable. It's another to humiliate him.

I feel like I addressed this earlier with another commenter. I totally agree that their are lines that should not be crossed. But telling Dietz that his book is terrible is perfectly acceptable. If this is the quality of his writing, then he doesn't deserve anything.

I'm sure you did address this earlier with another commenter on your thread.

Telling Dietz his book is terrible, and why, is perfectly acceptable. That would be a case of holding him accountable. But there are some posts that seem to want to humiliate him. And that's not cool.

As far as what he deserves..he doesn't deserve to be humiliated. Just as when you screw up, you don't deserve to be humiliated. Held accountable? Yes. Beyond that? No.

[OMTING52601]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

Honestly, they could use fanon discontinuity. It's been done before, I know for certain in the Trek universe. My BIL had this huge compendium of Trek history and I remember this tiny section at the back that listed works that had been disregarded and specifically overlooked because they broke canon. Since the Wiki is fan created, maintained, etc. I don't see why the wiki doesn't just determine "Deception" as non-canonical, giving it an entry as such if they believe it needs to be mentioned. Sure, it'd be great if Bioware 'backed' them on that decision, but it isn't a necessity. IMO, of course, and FWIW.

[izmirtheastarach]

rapscallioness wrote...

I'm sure you did address this earlier with another commenter on your thread.

Telling
Dietz his book is terrible, and why, is perfectly acceptable. That
would be a case of holding him accountable. But there are some posts
that seem to want to humiliate him. And that's not cool.

As far
as what he deserves..he doesn't deserve to be humiliated. Just as when
you screw up, you don't deserve to be humiliated. Held accountable? Yes.
Beyond that? No.

Agreed. And as you said, he really can't do anything to hurt the book without getting himself in trouble.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 02 février 2012 - 01:02 .

[AVPen]

jasonsantanna wrote...

 I just finished Deception today started reading it yesterday . . .I was going to do a review myself for ppeople but it seems  that its making rounds every where on the net and none are positive .
I decided to not cancel my order and just read it based on my own feelings and not the thoughts of others on BSN.
I have to say about 95% or more of what people said about the book is true , now don't get me wrong this in no way will reflect my pre-ordering of the game(ME3) but Deception went no where it kept leading you to a climax that never happen, I wont go into detail about what I didnt like about the book because lets face it most of everyones view of the book is the same but I will point out that it seemed so rush and felt like it was not a ME book or felt like it was not taking place in the ME universe.
But what bugged me most was why the writer felt it was so important to always point out or state that Anderson and Kahlee need to have breakfast or want to go eat dinner before they do anything or how he keeps describing how TIM smokes his cigs . . .it put me off very much but to sum up what I thought about this book I took this reveiw from a customer on AMAZON , which is the exactly what I thought of the book also. . . .:pinched::(

**SPOILERS!**

How completely worthless is this novel when the entire plot contained within is MEANINGLESS? The only major outcome that occurs in Deception is that the three characters previously created in the novel Ascension - Gillian, Hendel, and Nick - are all randomly killed off at the very end for no other purpose other than to erase their existence from the Mass Effect universe. Other than that, nothing matters in this novel to the plot of the Mass Effect series, NOTHING - Anderson and Kahlee make no progress into investigating either Cerberus or the Reapers, the Council still actively dismisses the existence of the Reapers, there is no mention of the events of Arrival or the escalating tensions between the Alliance and the batarians over it, there is no active effort by Cerberus into any of their secret projects... none of the characters grow or evolve, none of the conflicts previously established in other Mass Effect media are resolved, nothing is any different for the Mass Effect universe or its characters from the beginning of this novel to its end, not a single darn thing..

Ah, I see you've read my Amazon review, nice.

[JoeLaTurkey]

LumpOfCole wrote...

I don't think Bioware will announce it being non-canonical, but I can see Bioware ignoring everything about the book the same way George Lucas completely ignores the Star Wars Holiday Special as if it never happened.

That's...probably the best analogy made so far

How to cook asari stir-fry:

"Stir whip, stir whip, whip whip stir, BEAT!"

[Yuoaman]

OMTING52601 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

Honestly, they could use fanon discontinuity. It's been done before, I know for certain in the Trek universe. My BIL had this huge compendium of Trek history and I remember this tiny section at the back that listed works that had been disregarded and specifically overlooked because they broke canon. Since the Wiki is fan created, maintained, etc. I don't see why the wiki doesn't just determine "Deception" as non-canonical, giving it an entry as such if they believe it needs to be mentioned. Sure, it'd be great if Bioware 'backed' them on that decision, but it isn't a necessity. IMO, of course, and FWIW.

I think you mean canon discontinuity - fanon discontinuity is just when the fans act as if something isn't canon.

[Ashira Shepard]

ZLurps wrote...

Many of us has laughed to the cereal killer Leng but I came to think what if Deception would actually follow the canon.


Leng contacts TIM:
Leng "Grayson daughter is alive"
TIM - "Grayson's daughter Gillian. On the one hand she seems like a somewhat overwrought 13 year old who is mourning her father. As such she deserves our patience and understanding."
"However," the Illusive Man continued as he tapped some ash into a tray, "Autism is a very dangerous thing."
"So in considering Gillian's fate it's important to look beyond what she is to what she might become. And that is someone dangerous.
Leng: "Understood"

I wonder how audience would experience TIM after that one. Our master mind antagonist sipping bourbon, smoking and being afraid of 13 years old girl.

Because it isn't rational to be worried about someone who can kill you with their mind.

People freak the hell out when child!Alma appears for that very reason. 

[Balmung31]

[spam post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 02 février 2012 - 01:08 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Yuoaman wrote...

OMTING52601 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

Honestly, they could use fanon discontinuity. It's been done before, I know for certain in the Trek universe. My BIL had this huge compendium of Trek history and I remember this tiny section at the back that listed works that had been disregarded and specifically overlooked because they broke canon. Since the Wiki is fan created, maintained, etc. I don't see why the wiki doesn't just determine "Deception" as non-canonical, giving it an entry as such if they believe it needs to be mentioned. Sure, it'd be great if Bioware 'backed' them on that decision, but it isn't a necessity. IMO, of course, and FWIW.

I think you mean canon discontinuity - fanon discontinuity is just when the fans act as if something isn't canon.

I can't speak for them, but I think the wiki guys believe that unless they get some official statement from Bioware, they will HAVE to accept it as canon and try to integrate it into the wiki.