11391 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuoaman]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

OMTING52601 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

Honestly, they could use fanon discontinuity. It's been done before, I know for certain in the Trek universe. My BIL had this huge compendium of Trek history and I remember this tiny section at the back that listed works that had been disregarded and specifically overlooked because they broke canon. Since the Wiki is fan created, maintained, etc. I don't see why the wiki doesn't just determine "Deception" as non-canonical, giving it an entry as such if they believe it needs to be mentioned. Sure, it'd be great if Bioware 'backed' them on that decision, but it isn't a necessity. IMO, of course, and FWIW.

I think you mean canon discontinuity - fanon discontinuity is just when the fans act as if something isn't canon.

I can't speak for them, but I think the wiki guys believe that unless they get some official statement from Bioware, they will HAVE to accept it as canon and try to integrate it into the wiki.

Yeah, it's up to Bioware to dictate canon, not the fans. :\\

[ZLurps]

rapscallioness wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

It's one thing to hold him accountable. It's another to humiliate him.

I feel like I addressed this earlier with another commenter. I totally agree that their are lines that should not be crossed. But telling Dietz that his book is terrible is perfectly acceptable. If this is the quality of his writing, then he doesn't deserve anything.

I'm sure you did address this earlier with another commenter on your thread.

Telling Dietz his book is terrible, and why, is perfectly acceptable. That would be a case of holding him accountable. But there are some posts that seem to want to humiliate him. And that's not cool.

As far as what he deserves..he doesn't deserve to be humiliated. Just as when you screw up, you don't deserve to be humiliated. Held accountable? Yes. Beyond that? No.

People are pissed off for many reasons. Lore and poor quality of writing and killing Gillian for example.
Can't say much about other things but I think it's very unlikely that idea to kill Gillian was his own. Killing a character is very extreme thing to do, s/he can't appear in games or comics anymore and it's very difficult for me to believe that hired gun would have given freedom to do whatever they wish with characters. That would be a tail wagging a dog.

[izmirtheastarach]

Yuoaman wrote...

Yeah, it's up to Bioware to dictate canon, not the fans. :

Yeah, and I think they feel that unless the word comes from Bioware, they have no choice.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 02 février 2012 - 01:13 .

[The Love Runner]

Wikipedia lists Deception taking place AFTER Invasion?

What the heck?

Modifié par Galactic Runner, 02 février 2012 - 01:14 .

[AlphaJarmel]

Well it's obvious Bioware wanted these characters dead so you can't really blame that on Dietz.

[Yuoaman]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

Yeah, it's up to Bioware to dictate canon, not the fans. :

Yeah, and I think they feel that unless the word comes from Bioware, they have no choice.

Well, if Bioware says it's canon, and that it has some effect on future Mass Effect works then it has to be taken as such in the wiki - it still sucks, though.

[Heimdall]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Well it's obvious Bioware wanted these characters dead so you can't really blame that on Dietz.

It's the how and why we can blame on Dietz.

[MJvasNormandy]

Galactic Runner wrote...

Wikipedia lists Deception taking place AFTER Invasion?

What the heck?

Doesn't matter which is first, they both contradict eachother. Irreconcilable timeline.

[ODST 3]

I've got an audio book of the prologue uploading to YouTube. I'll post the link when it's done. Let me know if you want me to make more chapters.

[izmirtheastarach]

I'm sure that it was a decision Bioware had to approve, I still don't get why they would.

[OMTING52601]

Yuoaman wrote...

OMTING52601 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

Honestly, they could use fanon discontinuity. It's been done before, I know for certain in the Trek universe. My BIL had this huge compendium of Trek history and I remember this tiny section at the back that listed works that had been disregarded and specifically overlooked because they broke canon. Since the Wiki is fan created, maintained, etc. I don't see why the wiki doesn't just determine "Deception" as non-canonical, giving it an entry as such if they believe it needs to be mentioned. Sure, it'd be great if Bioware 'backed' them on that decision, but it isn't a necessity. IMO, of course, and FWIW.

I think you mean canon discontinuity - fanon discontinuity is just when the fans act as if something isn't canon.

No, I mean fanon discontinuity. It's when the fans refuse to accept something as canonical and then completely disregard said offending item from canon/lore. Sometimes this will lead to said offending item being officially removed, but that doesn't really matter. Fanon discontinuity is when the FANS reject an idea/situation/whatever that has been 'added' to the 'official' canon, REGARDLESS of what the creators say about said item/how they spin the negative response 

[ZLurps]

AshiraShepard wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Many of us has laughed to the cereal killer Leng but I came to think what if Deception would actually follow the canon.


Leng contacts TIM:
Leng "Grayson daughter is alive"
TIM - "Grayson's daughter Gillian. On the one hand she seems like a somewhat overwrought 13 year old who is mourning her father. As such she deserves our patience and understanding."
"However," the Illusive Man continued as he tapped some ash into a tray, "Autism is a very dangerous thing."
"So in considering Gillian's fate it's important to look beyond what she is to what she might become. And that is someone dangerous.
Leng: "Understood"

I wonder how audience would experience TIM after that one. Our master mind antagonist sipping bourbon, smoking and being afraid of 13 years old girl.

Because it isn't rational to be worried about someone who can kill you with their mind.

People freak the hell out when child!Alma appears for that very reason. 

Shepard just need to carry a kid construction kit with him and dealing with TIM should become very easy.
Asari commandos, C-Sec commandos, pissed off Krogans, they are nothing! Take that kid out!

[Yuoaman]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

Wikipedia lists Deception taking place AFTER Invasion?

What the heck?

Doesn't matter which is first, they both contradict eachother. Irreconcilable timeline.

I like to imagine that it took place at the exact same time in a different universe - it is the only way it works at all.

[NubXL]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Well it's obvious Bioware wanted these characters dead so you can't really blame that on Dietz.

There's enough guilt to go around.  BioWare wanted them dead, Dietz chose how to do it.

[Darkieus]

I really hope Deception isn't canon.

If it is, I may have to kill myself.

[Yuoaman]

OMTING52601 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

OMTING52601 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Fanon discontinuity is in full effect. The guys I am sad for are the ones who run the wiki. I have no idea what they are going to do.

Honestly, they could use fanon discontinuity. It's been done before, I know for certain in the Trek universe. My BIL had this huge compendium of Trek history and I remember this tiny section at the back that listed works that had been disregarded and specifically overlooked because they broke canon. Since the Wiki is fan created, maintained, etc. I don't see why the wiki doesn't just determine "Deception" as non-canonical, giving it an entry as such if they believe it needs to be mentioned. Sure, it'd be great if Bioware 'backed' them on that decision, but it isn't a necessity. IMO, of course, and FWIW.

I think you mean canon discontinuity - fanon discontinuity is just when the fans act as if something isn't canon.

No, I mean fanon discontinuity. It's when the fans refuse to accept something as canonical and then completely disregard said offending item from canon/lore. Sometimes this will lead to said offending item being officially removed, but that doesn't really matter. Fanon discontinuity is when the FANS reject an idea/situation/whatever that has been 'added' to the 'official' canon, REGARDLESS of what the creators say about said item/how they spin the negative response 

Well I can imagine the majority of fans disregarding Deception, the Wiki won't.

And yeah, I was just confused by your initial wording as to which you meant.

[The Love Runner]

Darkieus wrote...

I really hope Deception isn't canon.

If it is, I may have to kill myself.

Whoa, now, I hope this is a joke.

On-topic: Any luck on additional media coverage?

Modifié par Galactic Runner, 02 février 2012 - 01:20 .

[eoinnx02]

What the hell bioware, I was looking forward to that book, how could you green light that? Oh well, atleast invasion was good. *le sigh*

[nitefyre410]

ZLurps wrote...

AshiraShepard wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Many of us has laughed to the cereal killer Leng but I came to think what if Deception would actually follow the canon.


Leng contacts TIM:
Leng "Grayson daughter is alive"
TIM - "Grayson's daughter Gillian. On the one hand she seems like a somewhat overwrought 13 year old who is mourning her father. As such she deserves our patience and understanding."
"However," the Illusive Man continued as he tapped some ash into a tray, "Autism is a very dangerous thing."
"So in considering Gillian's fate it's important to look beyond what she is to what she might become. And that is someone dangerous.
Leng: "Understood"

I wonder how audience would experience TIM after that one. Our master mind antagonist sipping bourbon, smoking and being afraid of 13 years old girl.

Because it isn't rational to be worried about someone who can kill you with their mind.

People freak the hell out when child!Alma appears for that very reason. 

Shepard just need to carry a kid construction kit with him and dealing with TIM should become very easy.
Asari commandos, C-Sec commandos, pissed off Krogans, they are nothing! Take that kid out!

 


I could give a good number of examples of why  superpowered  pissed off adsolecents are very, very, dangerous. to ones plan of  evil, evilness. 

[MJvasNormandy]

Galactic Runner wrote...

On-topic: Any luck on additional media coverage?

I don't know why the OP didn't post the Machinima coverage.

http://www.youtube.c...m4o-Mps#t=1m17s

[CDRSkyShepard]

I could see why TIM would regard Gillian with caution, given that one outburst in Ascension caused a Singularity. Fear, on the other hand? No. If Shepard doesn't scare him, Gillian won't.

[izmirtheastarach]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

On-topic: Any luck on additional media coverage?

I don't know why the OP didn't post the Machinima coverage.

http://www.youtube.c...m4o-Mps#t=1m17s

Did you PM him?

[AVPen]

Galactic Runner wrote...

Darkieus wrote...

I really hope Deception isn't canon.

If it is, I may have to kill myself.

Whoa, now, I hope this is a joke.

On-topic: Any luck on additional media coverage?

Nothing new right now, but I see that IGN now placed their story on it at the top of their main site so everyone can see it (which helps, cause then the story doesn't get lost in the shuffle of other news articles).

[nitefyre410]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

Galactic Runner wrote...

On-topic: Any luck on additional media coverage?

I don't know why the OP didn't post the Machinima coverage.

http://www.youtube.c...m4o-Mps#t=1m17s

 

I really would not call that coverage but okay.... its gets the word out. 

[OMTING52601]

Yuoaman wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I can't speak for them, but I think the wiki guys believe that unless they get some official statement from Bioware, they will HAVE to accept it as canon and try to integrate it into the wiki.

Yeah, it's up to Bioware to dictate canon, not the fans. :

If that's how the wiki guys feel, that's cool, but that isn't how it has to be. An example of this in action is Star Trek V, which after unbelivable fanon discontinuity, was labeled, by Gene Rodenberry himself as 'apocryphal', which means of questionable authenticity, erroneous, fictitious. 

I don't have a horse in this race. I was honestly just trying to give people some optimism that even if Bioware ignores the kerfuffle, fans don't have to 'suck it up and deal', that's all. Wasn't trying to stir a pot or anything. Heck, wasn't even pointing fingers or being nasty. This kind of thing, books(be they tie-ins, series entries, stand alones) finding their way to publication despite poor plotting, editing, and synchronicity, happens more often than most people think. If you're a lucky writer, someone will find the mistakes before galley and proofing and you get a chance to fix things. In this case, that didn't happen. It's lamentable.

e: mistyped a word

Modifié par OMTING52601, 02 février 2012 - 01:36 .