11391 réponses à ce sujet

[_symphony]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

I feel kind of bad for the author after looking at the 1 star reviews on Amazon.

I think I'm more responsible for that then any other single person, and I don't feel bad for him at all. He wrote a book. It's of very poor quality. It has received reviews that reflect that. He deserves nothing more. Why is there a reason to feel bad?

Maybe because BioWare told him "Naaaah, is ok, that draft is good enough for us. Sell it! Sell it!"

[Yuoaman]

EsterCloat wrote...

Penny Arcade just put up a comic that talks about the book. Thought you guys might want to know.

My ****ing god.

We made it guys.

We made it.

[JeffZero]

Yuoaman wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Penny Arcade just put up a comic that talks about the book. Thought you guys might want to know.

My ****ing god.

We made it guys.

We made it.

[izmirtheastarach]

_symphony wrote...

Maybe because BioWare told him "Naaaah, is ok, that draft is good enough for us. Sell it! Sell it!"

Well, fine. Dietz is a contract writer. It's not his IP. Sure, he gets royalties, but he's gotten the advance already. Since he already got paid, what does he care how well the book is reviewed? It's EA that's going to lose money, not him.

[Hedera]

Yuoaman wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Penny Arcade just put up a comic that talks about the book. Thought you guys might want to know.

My ****ing god.

We made it guys.

We made it.

That...

That just happened?

*checks pulse*

[AxisEvolve]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

I feel kind of bad for the author after looking at the 1 star reviews on Amazon.

I think I'm more responsible for that then any other single person, and I don't feel bad for him at all. He wrote a book. It's of very poor quality. It has received reviews that reflect that. He deserves nothing more. Why is there a reason to feel bad?

I'm not sure. It's pretty difficult to get everything 100% correct when dealing with a world so vast and specific as the one created in Mass Effect. I don't know much about the author. If he is an "outsider" then I feel bad for him. If he has knowledge of the Mass Effect world and is experienced with it then I don't. I realize research would have given a lot of insight but even I after playing Mass Effect games for a few years now am still learning new things about them every week. I'd blame the people who hired and vetted him more than the actual author. But I don't blame the fans for being engraged.. It's understandable.

Modifié par AxisEvolve, 03 février 2012 - 08:25 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

JeffZero wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Penny Arcade just put up a comic that talks about the book. Thought you guys might want to know.

My ****ing god.

We made it guys.

We made it.

*Does the Shepard*

[Butcher_of_Torfan]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...
@ Butcher - The Wiki guys are still trying to figure out how to reconcile the events of the book with the rest of the canon, hence why there isn't an article yet. It's that bad.

wow. 0_o  I read through the google doc, so im aware of the canon errors.  But if the wiki isnt even putting it up with a *possible canon conflict*  tag or something, it must be really bad.  Wiki editors are usually pretty anal about documenting everything, regardless of fan rage. 

[MissOuJ]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Well, fine. Dietz is a contract writer. It's not his IP. Sure, he gets royalties, but he's gotten the advance already. Since he already got paid, what does he care how well the book is reviewed? It's EA that's going to lose money, not him.

True.

The shoddy quality of writing and lack of research are on Dietz.

The fact that this atrocity made it to print at all is on BioWare. They, and they alone, are responsible for the stuff that carries their brand and what they endorse officially.

[Yuoaman]

The e-mail I sent off to Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins:

I know you guys are likely inundated with e-mails following every comic you post, but I really have to thank you for bringing up the Mass Effect Deception thing in your latest. Just thank you so much, we all appreciate this - it makes me, at least, feel as if succumbing to my inner nerd with this stuff is doing something.

Again, thank you so very much.

[izmirtheastarach]

AxisEvolve wrote...

I'm not sure. It's pretty difficult to get everything 100% correct when dealing with a world so vast and specific as the one created in Mass Effect. I don't know much about the author. If he is an "outsider" then I feel bad for him. If he has knowledge of the Mass Effect world and is experienced with it then I don't. I realize research would have given a lot of insight but even I after playing Mass Effect games for a few years now am still learning new things about them every week. I'd blame the people who hired and vetted him more than the actual author. But I don't blame the fans for being engraged.. It's understandable.

He's a complete outsider. He's a gun for hire. And he has publicly said himself that a writer in his position should have read all the books, and played all the games. You're totally right that much of the blame is on Bioware for letting this thing out the door.

Regardless, my honest opion is that without any of the errors in the lore, this book is terribly written. If I had no franchise attached to it, it wouldn't sell it all. It's terrible. It deserves no praise, and neither does it's other. While I can't control what the people I encouraged to review it write, my review takes all this into account. 

The market should be a meritocracy. Bad work deserves to be reviewed badly, and sell badly. It's as simple as that.

Wish I could continue this discussion, but I need to get some sleep.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 03 février 2012 - 08:32 .

[JeffZero]

Yuoaman wrote...

The e-mail I sent off to Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins:

I know you guys are likely inundated with e-mails following every comic you post, but I really have to thank you for bringing up the Mass Effect Deception thing in your latest. Just thank you so much, we all appreciate this - it makes me, at least, feel as if succumbing to my inner nerd with this stuff is doing something.

Again, thank you so very much.

That's rad. I hope they appreciate it.... we sure as hell do.

[_symphony]

MissOuJ wrote...
The fact that this atrocity made it to print at all is on BioWare. They, and they alone, are responsible for the stuff that carries their brand and what they endorse officially.

QFT

[Yuoaman]

I have to say, guys, up until now things have been awesome - but **** just go real to me. I know IGN was a huge step forward for us, but I've never really been an IGN reader - this is the moment when things finally come together for me.

And is it ever glorious.

[MissOuJ]

AxisEvolve wrote...

I'm not sure. It's pretty difficult to get everything 100% correct when dealing with a world so vast and specific as the one created in Mass Effect. I don't know much about the author. If he is an "outsider" then I feel bad for him. If he has knowledge of the Mass Effect world and is experienced with it then I don't. I realize research would have given a lot of insight but even I after playing Mass Effect games for a few years now am still learning new things about them every week.

Yes, but he's also writing a new instalment to a series of tie-in novels. There are so many inconsistencies with the previous novels alone I'm fairly certain Dietz didn't read even the previous novels properly (missing Ugho's death, Gillian's autism, Hendel being gay ect.), which is a rather s****y thing to do, given you're playing in somebody else's sandbox and continuing somebody else's work.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Butcher_of_Torfan wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...
@ Butcher - The Wiki guys are still trying to figure out how to reconcile the events of the book with the rest of the canon, hence why there isn't an article yet. It's that bad.

wow. 0_o  I read through the google doc, so im aware of the canon errors.  But if the wiki isnt even putting it up with a *possible canon conflict*  tag or something, it must be really bad.  Wiki editors are usually pretty anal about documenting everything, regardless of fan rage. 

Well, here's the thing: If they document this as canon...as BioWare has stated it's canon...then they'll have to put tabs on a bunch of other articles as well. Articles like "batarian" and "Tantalus Drive Core" and "quarian." There are so many deep-seated inconsistencies that it will effect a bunch of other articles, and it'll be a headache. Thus, they're waiting for some official word from BioWare as to its canonocity until they go through the pain of mass editing.

[JeffZero]

Yuoaman wrote...

I have to say, guys, up until now things have been awesome - but **** just go real to me. I know IGN was a huge step forward for us, but I've never really been an IGN reader - this is the moment when things finally come together for me.

And is it ever glorious.

Bask in that light, Yuoaman. You've earned its glow.

[Butcher_of_Torfan]

AxisEvolve wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

AxisEvolve wrote...

I feel kind of bad for the author after looking at the 1 star reviews on Amazon.

I think I'm more responsible for that then any other single person, and I don't feel bad for him at all. He wrote a book. It's of very poor quality. It has received reviews that reflect that. He deserves nothing more. Why is there a reason to feel bad?

I'm not sure. It's pretty difficult to get everything 100% correct when dealing with a world so vast and specific as the one created in Mass Effect. I don't know much about the author. If he is an "outsider" then I feel bad for him. If he has knowledge of the Mass Effect world and is experienced with it then I don't. I realize research would have given a lot of insight but even I after playing Mass Effect games for a few years now am still learning new things about them every week. I'd blame the people who hired and vetted him more than the actual author. But I don't blame the fans for being engraged.. It's understandable.

No sympathy on my part after what i've been reading in this thread.  Guy is supposed to be a profesional writer.  He got paid to do a job, and he did it badly. Depending on what schedule he was given, i can understand not playing the games.  However,  an afternoon or two google searching or reading the wiki could have eliminated most of the glaring errors while he was still in the draft phase.  Not to mention the sheer ridiculousness of things like the cereal eating scene.   Or the fact that the free excerpt i just read was fan fic quality writing.   For a profesional writer who's been writing for since the 80s and put out over 30 books, i'd expect better quality and prose. 

That being said, if i ever met Dietz in person, I'd still shake his hand, buy him a beer and thank him for his military service.  

[SpartHawg948]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Butcher_of_Torfan wrote...

CDRSkyShepard wrote...
@ Butcher - The Wiki guys are still trying to figure out how to reconcile the events of the book with the rest of the canon, hence why there isn't an article yet. It's that bad.

wow. 0_o  I read through the google doc, so im aware of the canon errors.  But if the wiki isnt even putting it up with a *possible canon conflict*  tag or something, it must be really bad.  Wiki editors are usually pretty anal about documenting everything, regardless of fan rage. 

Well, here's the thing: If they document this as canon...as BioWare has stated it's canon...then they'll have to put tabs on a bunch of other articles as well. Articles like "batarian" and "Tantalus Drive Core" and "quarian." There are so many deep-seated inconsistencies that it will effect a bunch of other articles, and it'll be a headache. Thus, they're waiting for some official word from BioWare as to its canonocity until they go through the pain of mass editing.

You hit the nail on the head. It'll be so much work sorting through all the errors in Deception and figuring out what can be worked in as is, what needs to be tagged as conflicting, etc, and then we'll have to add whole new sections to some articles describing the contradictions. And, as was stated, wiki editors are pretty anal about this sort of stuff, so we'd have to draft some new ste policies and such detailing what to do when canon conflicts like this, and...


Well, you get the picture. So yeah, we're trying to take another route first and maybe get this whole gawdawful mess disallowed from the get-go.

[Maugrim]

Yeah it's pretty cool the coverage this is getting, glad to be a part of it even if I've mostly just been egging others on with ideas.

@Butcher_of_Torfan

Exactly how I feel, including the buying of a beer or other drink of choice!

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 03 février 2012 - 08:44 .

[AxisEvolve]

izmirtheastarach wrote...
He's a complete outsider. He's a gun for hire. And he has publicly said himself that a writer in his position should have read all the books, and played all the games. You're totally right that much of the blame is on Bioware for letting this thing out the door.

Regardless, my honest opion is that without any of the errors in the lore, this book is terribly written. If I had no franchise attached to it, it wouldn't sell it all. It's terrible. It deserves no praise, and neither does it's other. While I can't control what the people I encouraged to review it write, my review takes all this into account. 

The market should be a meritocracy. Bad work deserves to be review badly, and sell badly. It's as simple as that.

Ah, well contradicting himself in that way does make him look like a buffoon. If all he cares about is money then it really doesn't matter what reviews he gets.. I guess I support giving this "sell-pen" 1 star then.

I haven't read any of the Mass Effect books.. Out of all the interesting periods and perspectives to explore they always pick the most dull "side mission" type stories.. stricly judging from reading the summaries of course. 

I'd much prefer to read a classic science fiction novel instead.... off to read Heinlein.

[JeffZero]

SpartHawg948 wrote...
You hit the nail on the head. It'll be so much work sorting through all the errors in Deception and figuring out what can be worked in as is, what needs to be tagged as conflicting, etc, and then we'll have to add whole new sections to some articles describing the contradictions. And, as was stated, wiki editors are pretty anal about this sort of stuff, so we'd have to draft some new ste policies and such detailing what to do when canon conflicts like this, and...

Well, you get the picture. So yeah, we're trying to take another route first and maybe get this whole gawdawful mess disallowed from the get-go.

Best of luck my friend. I don't envy your position at all right now.

[Wonderllama4]

so much attention has been given Deception for all the wrong reasons. people should REALLY be talking about Dragon Age: Asunder! now that's a good yarn.

people just love to whine when they could be praising instead!

[JeffZero]

AxisEvolve wrote...
I'd much prefer to read a classic science fiction novel instead.... off to read Heinlein.

Terrific taste.

[didymos1120]

Butcher_of_Torfan wrote...

 Then down the line retcon it out of existence without fanfare in future books.

Invasion seems to have already done that.  It doesn't acknowledge the events of Deception at all, just Retribution.