He's a fool just like Saren, thinking he can "one up" the Reapers. He will just follow the same path and be destroyed.
Regardless of his intentions, Cerberus' past actions made it clear they would have their own agenda. They had no reason to support you longer than necessary. Its just a bit naive to think he would do everything for the good of everyone, he always has to come out on top.
I can see you are a pro-human dominant player, but that is not my take at all.
Destroying the Collector Base
Débuté par
Goldendroid
, janv. 25 2012 10:12
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#52
Posté 25 janvier 2012 - 11:43
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After ME2 The IM Turned Gillians father Who help go to Talias peple into a human reaper. If you talked to everyone after they said shepard was wrong to keep base.
#53
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Posté 25 janvier 2012 - 11:43
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darkness reborn wrote...
Well that base would have details on the Reapers. Stuff that they would not want people to know about. Would you want your emeny knowing everything about you?
The reapers probably will blow up their own Collector base if they knew we're salvaging it. But then there is the question: When will they blow their own base up? Do they even have the chance to blow it up?
If the reapers see it as an urgent priority to recapture the Collector base (or blow it up), they'll send an army towards Omega. That means less reapers for us to deal with at our planet earth.
No but really, your argument is not a reason to blow up the Collector base in ME2. A short time to study the base (before the reapers come and capture it) is better than not studying it at all.
#54
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Posté 25 janvier 2012 - 11:48
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G3rman wrote...
He's a fool just like Saren, thinking he can "one up" the Reapers. He will just follow the same path and be destroyed.
Regardless of his intentions, Cerberus' past actions made it clear they would have their own agenda. They had no reason to support you longer than necessary. Its just a bit naive to think he would do everything for the good of everyone, he always has to come out on top.
Wrong.
Even if Cerberus has their own agenda, that agenda will have to wait until the reapers are destroyed. Right now, we have to focus on the reapers. The reapers are a threat to Cerberus too, so they too want to get rid of the reaper threat.
Your goals and Cerberus' goals are aligned: Deal with the reapers.
Really, your priorities are totally screwed up. You're so focussed on Cerberus that you completley forget about the real threat: The reapers! And you also seem to forget that the reapers are a threat to Ceberus too!
G3rman wrote...
I can see you are a pro-human dominant player, but that is not my take at all.
Wrong.
#55
Posté 25 janvier 2012 - 11:53
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Cerberus is as much my problem as the Reapers, they fight against me as I try to stop them. I don't care if their leader 'thinks' he can beat them at his own game, he oversteps his bounds and doesn't realize he has fallen.
If Cerberus wanted me to support their agenda, they wouldn't be trying to stop me at the same time as fighting the reapers their own way. In the end it backfires anyway, I laughed a bit.
If Cerberus wanted me to support their agenda, they wouldn't be trying to stop me at the same time as fighting the reapers their own way. In the end it backfires anyway, I laughed a bit.
#56
Posté 25 janvier 2012 - 11:54
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Yep because giving Cerberus the key to Galaxy wide domination is the smart move.
I didn't want to destroy it either btw. I blame bioware for giving us the binary choice. When there should have been a thrid option to expose the reapers by giving the base to the Alliance and Council.
I didn't want to destroy it either btw. I blame bioware for giving us the binary choice. When there should have been a thrid option to expose the reapers by giving the base to the Alliance and Council.
#57
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Posté 25 janvier 2012 - 11:55
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Logically yes, saving the Collector base would have been the smart move, BUT they did not give us a choice of who would get the base.Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Well that base would have details on the Reapers. Stuff that they would not want people to know about. Would you want your emeny knowing everything about you?
The reapers probably will blow up their own Collector base if they knew we're salvaging it. But then there is the question: When will they blow their own base up? Do they even have the chance to blow it up?
If the reapers see it as an urgent priority to recapture the Collector base (or blow it up), they'll send an army towards Omega. That means less reapers for us to deal with at our planet earth.
No but really, your argument is not a reason to blow up the Collector base in ME2. A short time to study the base (before the reapers come and capture it) is better than not studying it at all.
#58
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Posté 25 janvier 2012 - 11:59
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darkness reborn wrote...
Logically yes, saving the Collector base would have been the smart move, BUT they did not give us a choice of who would get the base.Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Well that base would have details on the Reapers. Stuff that they would not want people to know about. Would you want your emeny knowing everything about you?
The reapers probably will blow up their own Collector base if they knew we're salvaging it. But then there is the question: When will they blow their own base up? Do they even have the chance to blow it up?
If the reapers see it as an urgent priority to recapture the Collector base (or blow it up), they'll send an army towards Omega. That means less reapers for us to deal with at our planet earth.
No but really, your argument is not a reason to blow up the Collector base in ME2. A short time to study the base (before the reapers come and capture it) is better than not studying it at all.
And that's too bad, I fully agree with you.
But yeah, we don't have the option to hand over the base to anyone else but TIM. So we just have to work with that and give the base to TIM. Giving the base to TIM is more logical than the alternative (blowning it up). Of course this logic does not apply if you use your knowledge about ME3. But Shepard doesn't have that knowledge in ME2. You didn't have that knowledge when you first played ME2.
#59
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Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:02
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Iamnotahater wrote...
Yep because giving Cerberus the key to Galaxy wide domination is the smart move.
I didn't want to destroy it either btw. I blame bioware for giving us the binary choice. When there should have been a thrid option to expose the reapers by giving the base to the Alliance and Council.
Agreed. Exposing the base to the Alliance would be prefferencial. Showing the human baby reaper to the council should convince them that the reapers are real.
Butt since we can't do that, we have to stick with TIM.
If I had to make a top 3 of "smart options", it would be:
(1 is the smartest option, 3 is the dumbest option)
1. Keep the base and expose it. Show the council the human baby reaper.
2. Keep the base and hand it over to Cerberus.
3. Destroy the base.
Since option 1 isn't present in the game, we'll have to go with option 2.
#60
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:04
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He doesn't need the knowledge, he just needs to read the signs of all the past dealings with Cerberus and their shadow agenda to know..
'Hmm..unless I want Humanity to enslave all the other races, maybe I shouldn't help Cerberus.'
'Hmm..unless I want Humanity to enslave all the other races, maybe I shouldn't help Cerberus.'
#61
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Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:07
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Kept the base on all playthroughs. i don't care a fig about Cerberus. good or ill. just seems like a weapon that we need.
#62
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:12
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I decided not to blow up the base, I didn't want to give it to cerberus but using logic... here is proof of the reaper threat, This base would undoubtedly hold information that could help defeat the reapers in the future, the base would provide understanding of their motives, technology, weaknesses etc.. The dumb thing to do would be to blow it up. As much as I love Mass Effect the writing and choices sometimes given to your character are just simply retarded: the option to save the base and share all data, location etc. etc. with the citadel, council, alliance should have been the third option. Suppose we'll just have to wait and see what the ramifications will be in the third game,
#63
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Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:20
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G3rman wrote...
He doesn't need the knowledge, he just needs to read the signs of all the past dealings with Cerberus and their shadow agenda to know..
See, this is why I hate Paragon players. You guys stare yourself so blind at your ideals that you're unable to look past your bias against Cerberus.
Just because Cerberus doesn't fit your idealistic little goody-two-shoes morality, doesn't mean that Cerberus is eeeeeevullll or something.
Last time I checked, Cerberus' "shadow agenda" is to improve humanity's position in the galaxy and secure humanities dominance. If they indeed want to secure human dominance, they need to get rid of the reapers, especially now that they're targeting earth as their first priority.
Cerberus and you are in the same boat. You both want to get rid of the reapers. The reapers are the enemy to you and also to Cerberus. You should listen to Wrex: "Find an enemy of your enemy, and you find a friend."
Cerberus is the enemy of your enemy. So Cerberus is a "friend", at least for now.
G3rman wrote...
'Hmm..unless I want Humanity to enslave all the other races, maybe I shouldn't help Cerberus.'
"Hmmmm.... unless I want humanity and all other races DESTROYED BY THE REAPERS, I should focus on stopping the reapers. Since Cerberus is the only organisation that is also trying to stop the reapers, maybe I should help them?"
Seriously, your priorities are completely f*cked up.
Modifié par Luc0s, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:22 .
#64
Guest_darkness reborn_*
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:21
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Like with LOTSB, when Liara became the new SB BEFORE doing the SM, Liara would upload a comm link to the Normandy for Shepard to use in case he or she 'found something useful' making a 3rd choice (which would most likely be a Paragon choice) to give the base to Liara.Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Logically yes, saving the Collector base would have been the smart move, BUT they did not give us a choice of who would get the base.Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Well that base would have details on the Reapers. Stuff that they would not want people to know about. Would you want your emeny knowing everything about you?
The reapers probably will blow up their own Collector base if they knew we're salvaging it. But then there is the question: When will they blow their own base up? Do they even have the chance to blow it up?
If the reapers see it as an urgent priority to recapture the Collector base (or blow it up), they'll send an army towards Omega. That means less reapers for us to deal with at our planet earth.
No but really, your argument is not a reason to blow up the Collector base in ME2. A short time to study the base (before the reapers come and capture it) is better than not studying it at all.
And that's too bad, I fully agree with you.
But yeah, we don't have the option to hand over the base to anyone else but TIM. So we just have to work with that and give the base to TIM. Giving the base to TIM is more logical than the alternative (blowning it up). Of course this logic does not apply if you use your knowledge about ME3. But Shepard doesn't have that knowledge in ME2. You didn't have that knowledge when you first played ME2.
A win-win for all.
EDIT: btw I am a Paragon player.
Modifié par darkness reborn, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:25 .
#65
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:22
Calibrationmaster
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i keep it simply because i think it will be cool the implications on mass effect 3
i hope i am right
i hope i am right
#66
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:22
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G3rman wrote...
He doesn't need the knowledge, he just needs to read the signs of all the past dealings with Cerberus and their shadow agenda to know..
'Hmm..unless I want Humanity to enslave all the other races, maybe I shouldn't help Cerberus.'
The game literally is about setting you up for the Collector Base choice.
The entire game is developing two things. The Collectors and Cerberus.
You learn more about the Collectors, who they are, what they're doing, and what their end goal is for the Reapers.
During that time, you also learning more about Cerberus and the Illusive Man, his objectives and goals, and his way of doing things.
And then, once you stop the Collectors, you're given the base choice, and choosing base on your knowledge and experience of both.
You know what the Collectors use that base for, and what it may contain.
You know what Cerberus does, and their goals.
Modifié par TMA LIVE, 26 janvier 2012 - 12:23 .
#67
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:24
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The game shoehorned you into working with Cerberus, but nowhere did it say you had to be friends with them. Also nowhere did it say they would always do what was best for the galaxy, just what was best for humanity.
An organization with no checks or balance and no way to hold them accountable, its too dangerous in the long term to support them. At least that is the way I see it and I'm glad my Shepard's gamble paid off.
Btw, I'm not Paragon.
An organization with no checks or balance and no way to hold them accountable, its too dangerous in the long term to support them. At least that is the way I see it and I'm glad my Shepard's gamble paid off.
Btw, I'm not Paragon.
#68
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Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:25
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darkness reborn wrote...
Like with LOTSB, when Liara became the new SB BEFORE doing the SM, Liara would upload a comm link to the Normandy for Shepard to use in case he or she 'found something useful' making a 3rd choice (which would most likely be a Paragon choice) to give the base to Liara.Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Logically yes, saving the Collector base would have been the smart move, BUT they did not give us a choice of who would get the base.Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Well that base would have details on the Reapers. Stuff that they would not want people to know about. Would you want your emeny knowing everything about you?
The reapers probably will blow up their own Collector base if they knew we're salvaging it. But then there is the question: When will they blow their own base up? Do they even have the chance to blow it up?
If the reapers see it as an urgent priority to recapture the Collector base (or blow it up), they'll send an army towards Omega. That means less reapers for us to deal with at our planet earth.
No but really, your argument is not a reason to blow up the Collector base in ME2. A short time to study the base (before the reapers come and capture it) is better than not studying it at all.
And that's too bad, I fully agree with you.
But yeah, we don't have the option to hand over the base to anyone else but TIM. So we just have to work with that and give the base to TIM. Giving the base to TIM is more logical than the alternative (blowning it up). Of course this logic does not apply if you use your knowledge about ME3. But Shepard doesn't have that knowledge in ME2. You didn't have that knowledge when you first played ME2.
A win-win for all.
Yeaaaaaaah well sadly that's not possible.
It's literally not possible, since Liara cannot set up a direct com-channel with Shepard. The Normandy's quantum-communication array is directly linked to TIM's office.
TIM is the only person that can make direct contact with the Normandy SR2 through a secure channel.
#69
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:26
Turian_punk_75
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Blew it up just to ****** T.I.M. off.
T.I.M. 'You end up costing me more than just money, Shepard'
Shep 'Sorry, there's a fault on this line due to the excessive amount of bull****'
LMAO!!! I'm going to say that to my boss one day
T.I.M. 'You end up costing me more than just money, Shepard'
Shep 'Sorry, there's a fault on this line due to the excessive amount of bull****'
LMAO!!! I'm going to say that to my boss one day
#70
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Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:27
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G3rman wrote...
The game shoehorned you into working with Cerberus, but nowhere did it say you had to be friends with them. Also nowhere did it say they would always do what was best for the galaxy, just what was best for humanity.
Last time I checked, Shepard was a human. So I don't see this as a bad thing.
Besides, the best thing for humanity right now is defeating the reapers. TIM knows this. So yeah... go figure...
G3rman wrote...
An organization with no checks or balance and no way to hold them accountable, its too dangerous in the long term to support them. At least that is the way I see it and I'm glad my Shepard's gamble paid off.
Btw, I'm not Paragon.
That's why we don't support Cerberus on the long term, just as long as we have to deal with the reapers. Once the reapers are gone, I'll gladly give TIM the finger.
Btw, I'm not Renegade.
#71
Guest_darkness reborn_*
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:31
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which is why I blew the base up. I never liked or tusted TIM (I have meet people like him).Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Like with LOTSB, when Liara became the new SB BEFORE doing the SM, Liara would upload a comm link to the Normandy for Shepard to use in case he or she 'found something useful' making a 3rd choice (which would most likely be a Paragon choice) to give the base to Liara.Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Logically yes, saving the Collector base would have been the smart move, BUT they did not give us a choice of who would get the base.Luc0s wrote...
darkness reborn wrote...
Well that base would have details on the Reapers. Stuff that they would not want people to know about. Would you want your emeny knowing everything about you?
The reapers probably will blow up their own Collector base if they knew we're salvaging it. But then there is the question: When will they blow their own base up? Do they even have the chance to blow it up?
If the reapers see it as an urgent priority to recapture the Collector base (or blow it up), they'll send an army towards Omega. That means less reapers for us to deal with at our planet earth.
No but really, your argument is not a reason to blow up the Collector base in ME2. A short time to study the base (before the reapers come and capture it) is better than not studying it at all.
And that's too bad, I fully agree with you.
But yeah, we don't have the option to hand over the base to anyone else but TIM. So we just have to work with that and give the base to TIM. Giving the base to TIM is more logical than the alternative (blowning it up). Of course this logic does not apply if you use your knowledge about ME3. But Shepard doesn't have that knowledge in ME2. You didn't have that knowledge when you first played ME2.
A win-win for all.
Yeaaaaaaah well sadly that's not possible.
It's literally not possible, since Liara cannot set up a direct com-channel with Shepard. The Normandy's quantum-communication array is directly linked to TIM's office.
TIM is the only person that can make direct contact with the Normandy SR2 through a secure channel.
#72
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:31
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As a Spectre, I would expect Shepard to have a more open mind and look for options to support the entirety of Citadel races instead of just his own. I'd work or at least support with Cerberus if their actions didn't damage or interfere with the other races of the galaxy, however, they work against the efforts to stop the reapers in favor of their own way.
By the time you are at the point to 'give him the finger', he could have used all the support you gave him to be in the position to kill you or mess with galactic stability.
And if you aren't Renegade, don't jump to conclusions against Paragon players. Its rare to find people who are pure on either side of the spectrum.
By the time you are at the point to 'give him the finger', he could have used all the support you gave him to be in the position to kill you or mess with galactic stability.
And if you aren't Renegade, don't jump to conclusions against Paragon players. Its rare to find people who are pure on either side of the spectrum.
#73
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Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:36
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darkness reborn wrote...
which is why I blew the base up. I never liked or tusted TIM (I have meet people like him).Luc0s wrote...
Yeaaaaaaah well sadly that's not possible.
It's literally not possible, since Liara cannot set up a direct com-channel with Shepard. The Normandy's quantum-communication array is directly linked to TIM's office.
TIM is the only person that can make direct contact with the Normandy SR2 through a secure channel.
I don't trust TIM either, but we're in the same boat here (TIM and us, we're in the same boat). We need to stop the reapers and we need to dedicate every single possible resource against them to stand a chance. The Collector base might be one of the biggest, most useful resources we can get. If so, we have to risk keeping it. It will be a risk, but the potential loss is way to high to just blow it up. We can't afford to throw away resources like that, not with the reapers at our doorstep.
#74
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:36
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I blew that **** up every damn time. I never trusted Cerberus and as a sole survivor Paragon it felt only natural to blow it to hell, if not only to do the right thing in my eyes but to spite the Illusive man for my squad his thresher experiment took
#75
Posté 26 janvier 2012 - 12:36
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Luc0s your biased opinion about Cerberus is really annoying. I would like to give credit to Bioware for not making it entirely clear if TIM is evil or not.
