277 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Barquiel wrote...

If there was an option to give the base to the council, I'd keep it. As the only option is to hand it to the evil racist megalomaniac, I always destroy the base.

So you'd be up to handing it to three racist megalomaniacs and one wildcard, but not one?

[G3rman]

At least the Councilors are accountable, Cerberus isn't even a government entity that can be censured or stopped in a normal sense.

I understand that many people play their Renagons, Renegades, or even Paragons in a logical fashion. But don't hate on those who play theirs based on emotional decisions rather than logic.

[BlueMagitek]

G3rman wrote...

At least the Councilors are accountable, Cerberus isn't even a government entity that can be censured or stopped in a normal sense.

I understand that many people play their Renagons, Renegades, or even Paragons in a logical fashion. But don't hate on those who play theirs based on emotional decisions rather than logic.

Yes, because the Councilors certainly took a huge political blow when they invaded the Terminus System (or the verge of Terminus, the game really isn't clear which areas are Terminus and which are not) to bomb them some Quarians.  And who can forget the massive backlash they recieved from their statement that the Geth, a hostile species not seen for 300 years, attacking a human colony was just a human problem. 

The Councilors aren't accountable at all.

I don't care how you play the game; it's your game, play it how you like.  But when it comes to an argument, you can't just back up your actions with knowledge of how everything turns out or just because it was a Para/Rene decision.

[GoDLiKe 187x]

i keep the base more fun gameplay in me3

[G3rman]

Maybe people back up their choice by the lack of knowledge, the chose what they did on instinct or on a gamble. Sometimes logical isn't always the best approach. I dislike how its so robotic, 'this makes the most sense, so it must be the best choice.'.

That just makes the game sound boring and like you are metagaming.

[Barquiel]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

If there was an option to give the base to the council, I'd keep it. As the only option is to hand it to the evil racist megalomaniac, I always destroy the base.

So you'd be up to handing it to three racist megalomaniacs and one wildcard, but not one?

You need to check your definition of racism.

[BlueMagitek]

Barquiel wrote...

You need to check your definition of racism.

I suppose you're right; TIM isn't really that much of a racist; he does seem to put aliens under him though (and there seems to be quite a bit in Cerberus, ranging from mild to hardcore), so that's why I claimed he was one.  I apologize.

Edit:

G3rman wrote...

Maybe people back up their choice by the
lack of knowledge, the chose what they did on instinct or on a gamble.
Sometimes logical isn't always the best approach. I dislike how its so
robotic, 'this makes the most sense, so it must be the best choice.'.

That just makes the game sound boring and like you are metagaming.

And that's fine, but it doesn't make it the right choice at the time.  And the most logical choice doesn't necessarily guarentee the best outcome; things can happen that are out of your control.  That doesn't mean, however, that it was wrong to choose the logical choice.

Nonsense; even if Cerberus does turn into the Space Reich, I'd still give them the base *because* it's better than the alternative of destroying that giant rock of knowledge.

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:03 .

[Icemix]

Luc0s wrote...

Icemix wrote...

Luc0s your biased opinion about Cerberus is really annoying. I would like to give credit to Bioware for not making it entirely clear if TIM is evil or not.

And how exactly is my opinion on Cerberus "biased"?

Last time I checked, opinions are always biased.

opinion == bias

So your comment doesn't make much sense.


But how is my bias any worse than yours? 


What I find annoying is the extremely blind and idealistic bias against Cerberus from the Paragon idealists in this thread.

Its because you think your opinion is the right one and you go all defensive when someone doesn't think like you. What I find great with the writing in ME2 is that they didn't give us a clear view on what is Cerberus all about, do they really want to help humanity or is TIM really only trying to increase his dominace. They left that to the player to chose based on the information they provide in ME1/ME 2 and that is amazing.
I didn't trust TIM, never did, blew up that base every time. Not because I click on every Paragon option, but because when I play ME I put myself in Shepards place and I chose accoarding to what I would chose under those conditions.

[Gold Dragon]

I destroyed the base becuase TIM asked me to preserve it.  Nothing more.  Reverse Psychology wouldn't have worked because I would have destroyed it anyways.  Cerberus is fully welcome to whatever they can find in the wreckage, however.  Payment for life.

Those that say that Cerberus would have to wait until after the War's End to do anything are WRONG!

Cerberus doesn't think like that, and IMMEDIATELY start working against Shepard.  Evidence:  Mars. (Slight Spoilers follow)

TIM has the Data from the Mars Prothean site deleted to prevent ANYONE, and especially SHEPARD, from using it, so that HE, and HE ALONE, has the usage of that data.  It's only the sacrifice of one of Shepard's Squad (to serious Injury) that prevents TIM from succeeding.  This comes from EA video, not from the leaked Beta.

Neither TIM nor Cerberus can be trusted, and they both have proven this many times, In ME 1, in ME 2, in the comics, and in the books.

On the Topic of there being no choice:  This is blatantly false.  There are ALWAYS other choices.  These other options don't have to be obvious, not do they have to be good ones, but they are there.  Shepard could have suicided (had the game allowed it) rather than go on IS an option.  For Example:  Morrigan from Dragon Age Origins(paraphrased):

"You can always run away, and let the Darkspawn overrun Ferelden."
Alistair:  You call THAT a choice?!
Morrigan: It is a choice.  I never said it was a good one.

Think on it.  For Mass Effect, All paths lead to the same place, it is the deeds done, and the deeds not done, that determine your fate.

[G3rman]

I'm not saying the logical choice is wrong, just don't discount someone for taking the emotional approach or a Paragon gamble. Sure they can be silly from a logical standpoint but its clearly a viable way to play from the plot..

Either way we met the middle ground (majority anyway) with a third choice of handing it over to Alliance/Council.

[Labrev]

 When I spared the rachni in ME1, you basically heard unanimous sentiment that it'd have been better to kill it, past one squadmate who's there at the moment you make the decision.

When you keep the base in ME2, you hear the same unanimous sentiment from your squad that it'd have been better to just blow it. Again, past one given squadmate.


My gut says the base, if kept, will pay of big time in ME3. Due in no small part to Cerberus turning against you.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:26 .

[Last Vizard]

Haasth wrote...

 I.. Blame me for all you will, but I can't bear myself to destroy it.All that technology, the secrets. The *cough* aspiring scientist in me has to keep it alive.
I know Cerberus is likely going to betray me. But I can't bear myself to blow that up!
I actually wrote a little blog-thingy about that back in the day when I just completed it.

In essence it came down to me thinking:

Destroy the base:- Cerberus, or I should say TIM, cuts ties with you. He is at the very least pissed off. - Cerberus will not be able to continue studies and the likes on the Collector and Reaper technology.- All your squad members agree that it was the right decisions. Every single one.

Moral point of view: Experiments and technology is unethical and needs to be destroyed. Giving Cerberus this opportunity could lead to some serious ramifications that are not worth the chance. 

Leave the base intact:- Highly advanced technological upgrades for humanity. Could increase chances of survival against the Reapers.- Technology in hands of Cerberus. Could backfire incredibly. Especially with keeping in mind what TIM is doing in the upcoming novel.- All your squad members disagree. For example Miranda ponders if what 'we' did was the right choice or not... otherwise she will clearly say that 'we did the right thing'. - You can fully keep Cerberus on your good side... You can also slightly ****** TIM and tell him that he better use it for good or he'll pay for it. More or less.

Moral point of view: You're giving the base to a terrorist group in hopes for advanced technology. The fallen have not died in vain and something good may or may not come from this.

BioWare seems to lean more to the 'destroy the base' type of thing. Personally I think the 'highly advanced technology' makes it really interesting and I am unsure on what to go for next time... Leaving the base intact really sounds like something I would personally choose for though... even if I know that it would fall into the hands of a rather sinister organization... I would probably not pass the scientific chances aside. 

If only we could hand the base to the Alliance/Council instead... If only... 

I'd say I still mostly stand behind that.

Although I'm for the most part full Paragon, this is a Renegade decision I'll happily make every time. 

^This is pretty much how I feel right now lol I keep the CB because its too late for this cycle to leave the path the Reapers set out for us so the least we can do is find some tech we were never supposed to have.  Even when meta gaming (knowing Cerberus are sorta bad guys) I still keep the base, If TIM is trying to control the Reapers then maybe what he's looking for is in the CB.

[Iamnotahater]

Luc0s wrote...

Iamnotahater wrote...

Yep because giving Cerberus the key to Galaxy wide domination is the smart move.

I didn't want to destroy it either btw. I blame bioware for giving us the binary choice. When there should have been a thrid option to expose the reapers by giving the base to the Alliance and Council.

Agreed. Exposing the base to the Alliance would be prefferencial. Showing the human baby reaper to the council should convince them that the reapers are real.

Butt since we can't do that, we have to stick with TIM.


If I had to make a top 3 of "smart options", it would be:


(1 is the smartest option, 3 is the dumbest option)

1. Keep the base and expose it. Show the council the human baby reaper.

2. Keep the base and hand it over to Cerberus.

3. Destroy the base.


Since option 1 isn't present in the game, we'll have to go with option 2.

I thought long and hard about the decision. But I just didn't
trust TIM with that kind of power and believed he had a hidden agenda similar
N@zi fascism.

The first thing I believed he would do is use the weapon to indoctrinate all
his political adversaries on earth, rise to power, and then use it on alien
species galaxy wide.

I wasn't going to just blindly trust that he would use it just against the
reapers and figured if the entire galaxy is indoctrinated then what’s the point
in fighting the reapers anyways.

So I destroyed the base. Didn't want to but felt it was my only option.

Modifié par Iamnotahater, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:43 .

[BlueMagitek]

For everyone who wanted to give the base to the Council or the Alliance; how do you intend them to keep it? It's in the middle of the Terminus System and entering in force (enough to maintain and secure a base and the entrance to that base) would be inviting open conflict with the Terminus powers, which they didn't want back in ME 1 or on.

[G3rman]

BlueMagitek wrote...

For everyone who wanted to give the base to the Council or the Alliance; how do you intend them to keep it? It's in the middle of the Terminus System and entering in force (enough to maintain and secure a base and the entrance to that base) would be inviting open conflict with the Terminus powers, which they didn't want back in ME 1 or on.

Don't go in force then, a skeleton science crew with a small security compliment.

If that isn't feasable with Cerberus interference, all the more reason for me to blow it up to prevent it from being tampered with.

[Iamnotahater]

Easy it's pretected by black holes and the terminus powers 1. Weren't aware of the base 2. stayed clear of the space due to lsoing ships.

Send small crews 1 at a time. Also they could transport the important pieces back to council space for further study and then blow the base.

Plenty of options.

Modifié par Iamnotahater, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:56 .

[seirhart]

No matter what I destroy the base because there in no way I'm giving it to Cereberus. Now if I could have handed it to the council then I would have with a second thought and I sure wouldn't give it the alliance.

[AlexXIV]

G3rman wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

For everyone who wanted to give the base to the Council or the Alliance; how do you intend them to keep it? It's in the middle of the Terminus System and entering in force (enough to maintain and secure a base and the entrance to that base) would be inviting open conflict with the Terminus powers, which they didn't want back in ME 1 or on.

Don't go in force then, a skeleton science crew with a small security compliment.

If that isn't feasable with Cerberus interference, all the more reason for me to blow it up to prevent it from being tampered with.

My main problem with Reaper tech is indoctrination. So if you give it to the Alliance then probably the Alliance will be indoctrinated in ME3 or something. I'd probably destroy it anyway.

[Iamnotahater]

seirhart wrote...

No matter what I destroy the base because there in no way I'm giving it to Cereberus. Now if I could have handed it to the council then I would have with a second thought and I sure wouldn't give it the alliance.

I'd give to all council members.

Open source baby!

[G3rman]

I was under the impression it was the Reapers themselves that gave off the field that began the indoctrination process. Seeing how the Collector base wasn't a Reaper and unless they somehow replicated the field there, I wouldn't see the danger.

[AlexXIV]

G3rman wrote...

I was under the impression it was the Reapers themselves that gave off the field that began the indoctrination process. Seeing how the Collector base wasn't a Reaper and unless they somehow replicated the field there, I wouldn't see the danger.

TIM knows that and still gets alot of Cerberus members indoctrinated (maybe even himself). I wouldn't trust a tech I know next to nothing about and that tends to mind control people who get in contact with it. I mean that the turians could develop the Thannix is all well and fine. But that's really as far as I would go. Better shields, better guns. Maybe research indoctrination in a save enviroment so you have control about who is in danger of indoctrination etc. Cerberus is not known for being careful when researching and after Arrival I am not sure if the Alliance is any better. In general though I think research and learning to know your enemy is a good thing. It is just a question of risk/gain balance.

I personally like how Shep says that the base is an atrocity because so many people died in there. That's basically reason enough for me to blow it up. I am not really one who would use all means to an end. And I think of it as paying respect to the people who died in there to blow it up. Of course pragmatists will say it is better to pay them respect by researching it so their death was not in vain. But I really am a sucker for funeral pyre.

[Kasen]

G3rman wrote...

I was under the impression it was the Reapers themselves that gave off the field that began the indoctrination process. Seeing how the Collector base wasn't a Reaper and unless they somehow replicated the field there, I wouldn't see the danger.

Reaper artifacts also cause indoctrination, as seen repeatedly throughout the series. Plus the fact that there was a "dead" Reaper that was still indoctrinating - for all we know the now "dead" Reaper at the bottom of the base could do the same.