27 réponses à ce sujet

[RedCaesar97]

Mi-Chan wrote...
Is Warp Ammo even worth it? When an enemy is affected by biotics, or any kind of ragdoll they already take 100% more damage. WA would be a drop in the bucket when compared to that.

Warp Ammo's deals double damage to targets affected by biotics. From the Gameplay Data thread:

Warp Ammo

Warp ammo does double damage to targets affected by biotics. What this means is that the extra damage from Warp Ammo is doubled, not the entire damage from the weapon + Warp ammo.

So if a normal shot from a weapon does 100 damage, then a rank 1 Warp ammo will do 15 bonus damage for a total of 115 damage. Against targets affected by biotics, the bonus damage is doubled to 30 for a total of 130 damage.

Warp ammo, like all other ammo powers, uses the weapon's base damage to calculate the bonus. They never take any weapon bonuses into account, so it doesn't get more damage from a target who is in ragdoll (see below for weapon bonus damage to ragdolled targets).

Another way to look at it is that against targets affected by biotics, Warp ammo increases weapon damage by 30%/50%/70%/100% for ranks 1/2/3 and the heavy evolved. In this case, it is the highest damage increase for weapon powers, but it requires an extra step for you to use a biotic on the target. 

[capn233]

I think what Mi-Chan is getting at is that the double damage for Warp Ammo is double the "ammo damage" whereas the ragdolled enemies are taking double total damage. That is to say an extra 15 out of 260 is harder to notice.

As for the previous discussion, if those mechs were into the range penalty territory the difference in damage between the two shots would be less than the 3.7 "absolute" I quoted and even harder to notice.

I also have to wonder how a test about power bonuses applying to ammo power damage leads to a conclusion that ammo powers are not noticeable or worthwhile as has been suggested in this thread. I can see Red's argument that it looks like power damage may not be applied, but the variable was the armor and passive power bonus, not the ammo power.

I don't want to get into theorists vs empiricists, but if the damage equation that is allegedly pulled from the game is available and can demonstrate the difference between things it is worth looking at. When ammo powers give you an extra 25-50% damage per shot early game that should be noticeable. By late game the "gun" portion of the damage calculate has so many bonuses that the "ammo" portion is offset. Power damage bonuses aren't tremendous. But the actual "weapon damage" bonuses and upgrades add up substantially. Like on a Sniper Rifle with Damage 5 (50%), Headshot Damage (50% extra headshot damage for a 1.1 bonus if you have the Visor), and AP Sniper (+50% armor)... Assassin/Commando +15%. Extreme example, Widow B=368.3, no distance multiplier... the gun portion with a headshot against armor looks like

368.3*(1+0.5+0.15+1.1+0.5)*1.5 = 368.3(3.25)1.5 = 1795.4625

Tungsten would add 368.3(1+0.15)*0.7*1 = 296.485

That's going to be noticeable on any target with more than 1795 HP, especially if they have less than 2091HP...

And the ammo power might be the difference between having to shoot them again or using a BS power like Pull, Throw, or Slam to kill them outright (well, BS as in how much actual damage they deal).

edit:
To be clear, even though I used the Widow I think the ammo damage is probably more "noticeable" with the weaker base damage but higher ROF weapons where the time firing at the target can be reduced which also reduces your incoming fire.  Many of the tests are using higher base damage weapons where the number of shots to kill an enemy is low anyway, so it is harder to discern a difference when ammo powers may just lead to overkill on the last shot.  And of couse it somewhat depends on the protection multiplier of the specific weapon, as something with a high multiplier against armor needs less help against that then it does against a target with barriers or shields.  In that case adding Disruptor or Warp may be the difference between one and multiple shots.

edit2:
I also realize the numbers above might not be exactly what occurs in the game in any situation as there are still other random modifiers that get thrown into the mix, like powers only doing 70% damage against big targets and duration penalties on high difficultry which can affect something like incendiary's actual damage output.  I also realize that without the context of actual HP numbers for enemies divided amongst their health and protections the damage output from weapons is sort of just floating out there....

Modifié par capn233, 29 janvier 2012 - 05:15 .

[ahgchyhn]

i did some rough testing a while ago. it seemed to me that the "standard" enemies had a protection layer of 495 and a hit point value of 645, adding together to a total amount of 1140 (ng+, kasumi+LotSB dlc). i didn't bother to test "elite" enemies and bosses.

Modifié par ahgchyhn, 29 janvier 2012 - 11:07 .