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[What a Succulent Ass]

I figured as much, Cheez, but if it is, it failed horribly. As a huge Samara fan, all I feel whilst reading this is gnawing hunger.

[Aggie Punbot]

The Justicar Code and how tricky it is in applying it to non-asari is likely the reason Justicars rarely venture outside of asari space (i.e. the necessity of murdering an entire squadron of Alliance marines for a perceived injustice).

[android654]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

What exactly is your point OP?

To ****** off the Samara fans, probably.  Just like his silly Canon Shepard thread from back in the day was clear flamebait.

To be honest, I think Samara's code is part of what makes her a fascinating character, even if I think it calls for her to be needlessly harsh.

I thought they invented the code just for this character, or rather the Justicars to introduce her. At any rate, I thought her code was very much like how she presented herself. This is a woman who's family life began in joy but left her in a wreckage of disapointing emotions. The happy family she had and built with her wife was torn asunder and was left with nothing but trying to correct the acts of her daughter. So as a Justicar she can cast away all of the emotional weight her life has burdened her with and hide behind a calling. This calling allows her to live without the complexities of an emotionally charged life, and without that the fear of pain and torment from circumstance can no longer harm her.

[InvincibleHero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Mainly the golden rule and not to murder steal or physically harm anyone except in self-defense.

Well I think the golden rule is dumb because some people don't want the things I want, and I don't want the things they want.

I guess my 3 of six (playthrough) in both games playing fem-Shep  and half in Dragon Age (4 of 8)and other RPGs where I play women main characters is not enough. You are wrong. I have no idea why you continue to attack me but let it be or I will report harassment.

Remember the "canon Shepard is a straight male" thread you made?

Because I do.

I made no such thread. I made a thread saying canon shep is male because all marketing is directed that way and if they mad e amovie they wouold choose male actor as lead. That is all. I never had anything about orientation and you are confsuing me with someone else.

I said nothing anti-woman in it. If they made a male Lara Croft called Larry Croft where you could choose between the two in the game i wouldn't care if they said Lara is canon.  It doesn't matter and its meaningless. I could play the game as a male and it says nothing about my playthrough. I would not even care what others said. It is merely an option to give people more choices because games are supposed to be fun.

I never made anti-women statements and you are demonizing me for no reason. i have professed many time to playing fem-Shep and that she should be promoted more and created a thread about that. Just because you want to irrrationally equate that thread with anti-women is your problem. I never said I hate any female character nor professed animosity to any user male or female here.

[Aggie Punbot]

Hmmm, I wonder. If Samara committed an injustice against another species by following her code, would the code necessitate her to commit ritual suicide? I do rather wonder.

[CrutchCricket]

InvincibleHero wrote...
1. People are suggesting Samara is a good person and the same about the code. They are making assumptions with no information. She would kill any an all cops that merely would detain her and with the village she killed brainwashed people who may not have posed a threat because it was easier or more expedient. She would quite happily kill all the Feros colonists which even a s a renegade I did not do.

2. The origins were on an asari world to apply to the asari people. To apply it elsewhere is indeed going beyond the scope. I think they need guidelines by asari law enforcement. It would be unacceptable to see them gun down people unaware of their code and not of their species to begin with. An execution would do that quite fine when they are tried for murder. I would hope it would not get that far. It is arrogance to think their morals are universal or that they have authority to do it anywhere. They have no legal standing to do so.

3. It is evidently far too radical and extreme and needs to be reigned in. If she would apply it to non-asari then she is an unfeeling zealot. So do you feel she would be justified to kill an undercover c-sec officer buying drugs because code dmeands it and she saw it? Actions without thought and learning  the circunstances are just set up for failure. She flat out says she doesn't want to know just execute them. To me that is monstrous.

1.Really? And what is a good person? I don't know who these people are but I would call them out on it just as I do here. You can't just throw around loaded notions like this, without defining them and expect to have a coherent discussion. Frankly doing so would be way outside the scope of these forums so I'd say we drop it. If you want to examine the specific issues, that's different. I have no objection with her killing the cops or the brainwashed villagers. Again in both cases they are actively impeding her in her duty. Her code requires that she remove these impediments by any means necessary. She quite clearly explains this to the cop. She couldn't explain it to the villagers because they were brainwashed. For the latter, even stepping outside the Code, is it better to live brainwashed or be free of those shackles? From the other side, is it better to allow a form of slavery to continue or to release people from captivity and suffering even if that release is death?

2. Who said anything about their morals being universal? As far as application I've already said the Code is probably worded to deal with situations, not individual species. It's not "asari shall not kill asari" but "murder shall not be tolerated". Don't think of it as morality so much, think of it as principles, principles they swear to unyieldingly uphold regardless of all else. You're worried about juristiction which again, isn't an individual justicar's concern. It is a concern to asari as a whole hence why justicars typically stick to asari space. Samara is an exception because she's hunting Morinth.

3. The opinion of an outsider and probably one that can't really imagine such rigid adherance to rules. I don't begrudge you this, I see why you think that. Few people today I think would even come close to living that way. But look up the human analogies she presents- samurai and knights errant.  You might find them extreme as well but it is possible to survive and even thrive in such a system. That we can't imagine what it'd be like, even though humans have done it in one way or another lends it an alien quality which I find perfect, given that asari are supposed to be aliens and yet we've hardly seen any "alien" things from them. The greatest thing about Samara I find is precisely that she brings this differing culture to the table. Every other asari is just a blue chick with optional stripperific attributes.

[InvincibleHero]

G3rman wrote...

You realize it was used in the 1300's yes? Do you use murderess in normal conversation? It's just murderer, your attempt to be fancy and politically correct is not necessary.

It is used today. It is nothing more than using an applicable word. I think you meant the opposite to use murderer would be PC.

[android654]

DiebytheSword wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Well I think the golden rule is dumb because some people don't want the things I want, and I don't want the things they want.

I think people underthink that rule.  The point is to see things from others point of view before acting.  Not that I want to start a religious debate, but there is really no good reason not to follow the golden rule other than spiting religion because you hate the church or the people in it.

Most religions have a rule very similar to it for a good reason.

That's a good point. ITs something that shouldn't be a part of relion, since its contemplated more often and in more depth in philosophy. What would life be like in the circumstance of another. Its hard for someone who isn't religious to weed through the dogma, anachronistic prejudice and hatred to find anything worth reading.

[Aggie Punbot]

I personally think Samara is a good person that has to follow a flawed moral code.

[InvincibleHero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

What exactly is your point OP?

To ****** off the Samara fans, probably.  Just like his silly Canon Shepard thread from back in the day was clear flamebait.

To be honest, I think Samara's code is part of what makes her a fascinating character, even if I think it calls for her to be needlessly harsh.

Again with a blatant attack. Never said I hate Samara. I used Morinth in one of six playthroughs. What I want is a discussion of the code because I think BW did not present it too coherently in the game. Tangentally she is the only character to exhibit the code so the discussion is also about her.

[G3rman]

It isn't used in mainstream society, either you took some medieval english class or you are afraid some feminist is going to bite your face off.

Either way, I don't see the point of this thread either.

Modifié par G3rman, 26 janvier 2012 - 05:28 .

[InvincibleHero]

DiebytheSword wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Well I think the golden rule is dumb because some people don't want the things I want, and I don't want the things they want.

I think people underthink that rule.  The point is to see things from others point of view before acting.  Not that I want to start a religious debate, but there is really no good reason not to follow the golden rule other than spiting religion because you hate the church or the people in it.

Most religions have a rule very similar to it for a good reason.

I wholeheartedly agree. People should show be respectful of others and that needs not have any religious dictates attached to it. If everyone acted thusly then the world would have harmony.

[android654]

G3rman wrote...

It isn't used in mainstream society, either you took some medieval english class or you are afraid some feminist is going to bite your face off.

HAHA!!!!

InvincibleHero wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Well I think the golden rule is dumb because some people don't want the things I want, and I don't want the things they want.

I think people underthink that rule.  The point is to see things from others point of view before acting.  Not that I want to start a religious debate, but there is really no good reason not to follow the golden rule other than spiting religion because you hate the church or the people in it.

Most religions have a rule very similar to it for a good reason.

I wholeheartedly agree. People should show be respectful of others and that needs not have any religious dictates attached to it. If everyone acted thusly then the world would have harmony.

Harmony's much more complicated than that.

Modifié par android654, 26 janvier 2012 - 05:28 .

[InvincibleHero]

TS2Aggie wrote...

The Justicar Code and how tricky it is in applying it to non-asari is likely the reason Justicars rarely venture outside of asari space (i.e. the necessity of murdering an entire squadron of Alliance marines for a perceived injustice).

Well we only know Samara seems willing to do apply the code to non-asari but is it really their tenets (maybe not right word)? Why would they think their authority would even extend to such?

[Aggie Punbot]

From what I've gleaned from Samara, the code is absolute. Political considerations do not matter when it comes to enforcing the code (as evidenced by her threat to kill Shepard if s/he 'make[s] me do anything dishonorable.'

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 26 janvier 2012 - 05:32 .

[InvincibleHero]

android654 wrote...

I thought they invented the code just for this character, or rather the Justicars to introduce her. At any rate, I thought her code was very much like how she presented herself. This is a woman who's family life began in joy but left her in a wreckage of disapointing emotions. The happy family she had and built with her wife was torn asunder and was left with nothing but trying to correct the acts of her daughter. So as a Justicar she can cast away all of the emotional weight her life has burdened her with and hide behind a calling. This calling allows her to live without the complexities of an emotionally charged life, and without that the fear of pain and torment from circumstance can no longer harm her.

I don't understand the rationale that she had to become a justicar first to bring Morinth to justice. It doesn't seem like an atonement and in some ways a punishment because she has to do some very disagreeable things. That's just what we know. She has to be a very tortured and troubled individual. I don't think I would find solace in some written codes having to kill a father in front of his children for instance.

[InvincibleHero]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Hmmm, I wonder. If Samara committed an injustice against another species by following her code, would the code necessitate her to commit ritual suicide? I do rather wonder.

I doubt it. There is probably a heirarchy explaining which takes priority and will allow her to make an action considered clean by her code. if she is always following the code then it should not lead her astray unless poorly written.

[android654]

InvincibleHero wrote...

android654 wrote...

I thought they invented the code just for this character, or rather the Justicars to introduce her. At any rate, I thought her code was very much like how she presented herself. This is a woman who's family life began in joy but left her in a wreckage of disapointing emotions. The happy family she had and built with her wife was torn asunder and was left with nothing but trying to correct the acts of her daughter. So as a Justicar she can cast away all of the emotional weight her life has burdened her with and hide behind a calling. This calling allows her to live without the complexities of an emotionally charged life, and without that the fear of pain and torment from circumstance can no longer harm her.

I don't understand the rationale that she had to become a justicar first to bring Morinth to justice. It doesn't seem like an atonement and in some ways a punishment because she has to do some very disagreeable things. That's just what we know. She has to be a very tortured and troubled individual. I don't think I would find solace in some written codes having to kill a father in front of his children for instance.

She is very troubled. Her children were born diseased, her wife was never mentioned possibly due to the tragic circumstances that became of her. Her hopes for having a family were swiftly brushed out the door and with the curse of seeming immortality she has had a lot of time to fester with all of that pain. Perhaps she needed an outlet or a shield from experiencing such pain like that again. Being a Justicar provides her with that ability, to live a life without complications. She's not responsible for the reprecussions of her actions because all of her actions fall within the rigidity of the code. By being a Justicar she finally has an excuse to never have to relive what she has or deliver a fourth child that would likely have to isolate themselves from contact with the rest of existence.

She does it so that she can prevent herself more pain, pain that she blames herself for causing.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Confession: I occasionally use "murderess."

All of you h8in'. They don't think it be like it is but it do.