320 réponses à ce sujet

[Tazzmission]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

So based on the OP it sounds like they wrote the story the way everyone writes a story for a series? Is that what this is or am I missing something? Did everyone expect them to plot out every single detail of the game from back when ME1 was being developed? Cheezus Pies

you pretty much nailed it on the head. people forget quickly that mass effect 1 could have been a failure like alot of games and no dev will ever just go oh hey yea we are going to do a trilogy wether it takes off or not.


and i would really like to see alot of these posters do better since they like to complain so much.

Modifié par Tazzmission, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:25 .

[AlanC9]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Personally I like people to know what they're doing. Especially if they are making a product I am paying money for and crafting something I am intended to have an emotional investment in.

Your life must be a perpetual disappointment, then. Or do you simply try to live in denial?

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:26 .

[Tazzmission]

AlanC9 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Personally I like people to know what they're doing. Especially if they are making a product I am paying money for and crafting something I am intended to have an emotional investment in.

Your life must be a perpetual disappointment, then.

or maybe real life is just boring.

theres no need to attack the guy

[Il Divo]

Seboist wrote...

No choice?! Gears of War has entire alternate paths to choose from based on choice which is a tangible consequence instead of throwway dialogue that amounts to nothing. Blazblue's story mode also has tangible consequence due to having a real branching narrative that results in alternate opponents based on player choice.

The real kicker is that these two franchises aren't even RPGs sold on the basis of player choice and they blow ME out of the water.

You're right. I can take the left path...or the right path. Choices with consequences. Clearly Bioware screwed up when they made Mass Effect and Dragon Age. They should have followed the Gears of War style.

[AlanC9]

Tazzmission wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Personally I like people to know what they're doing. Especially if they are making a product I am paying money for and crafting something I am intended to have an emotional investment in.

Your life must be a perpetual disappointment, then.

or maybe real life is just boring.

theres no need to attack the guy

I wasn't attacking. If Saphra wants to live with unrealistic expectations, that isn't a problem for anyone but Saphra.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bullsh*t. Don't even start down this path or I'll crap on a plate and call it art.

I'm quite certain that, no joke, somebody has already beat you to it.

@Cheez

I suppose you'd be enthralled by an airline that admitted they never knew what they were doing?

Personally I like people to know what they're doing. Especially if they are making a product I am paying money for and crafting something I am intended to have an emotional investment in.

I believe Cheez earlier made a nice metaphor about a painting being like this type of story development.

You have a rough outline of what you want to draw, but you have many ways to go about drawing it as you go along. You may decide to show things in a different light or evolve the style. You might not like a part out envisioned before or think you could make it better and make adjustments. This changes could be based on feedback, direction, and new ideas.

In the end there might be some flaws, but you can't deny there wasn't some soul to it. A nice insight into the creative process.

And I know I'll enjoy Mass Effect more knowing the writers enjoyed creating it for as long as they did. Which is what this writing process entiails.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:33 .

[Tazzmission]

AlanC9 wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Personally I like people to know what they're doing. Especially if they are making a product I am paying money for and crafting something I am intended to have an emotional investment in.

Your life must be a perpetual disappointment, then.

or maybe real life is just boring.

theres no need to attack the guy

I wasn't attacking. If Saphra wants to live with unrealistic expectations, that isn't a problem for anyone but Saphra.

well with what you said yea it does sound like your attacking.

and who cares what he/she does because if that person enjoys it theres no reason for that comment.


heck i pretty much do the same so i guess my lifes dull also right?

[Ghost Lightning]

Seboist wrote...

No choice?! Gears of War has entire alternate paths to choose from based on choice which is a tangible consequence instead of throwway dialogue that amounts to nothing. Blazblue's story mode also has tangible consequence due to having a real branching narrative that results in alternate opponents based on player choice.

The real kicker is that these two franchises aren't even RPGs sold on the basis of player choice and they blow ME out of the water.

I really hope you're joking. 

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

You see, this sort of thinking assumes that the Reapers posses some kind of precognition.

Uh... no.

I assume that after Shepard starts following Saren's trail that the Reapers would notice and swat him down like a bothersome fly. No psychic powers necessary.

Shepard is more than just an annoyance after any of the plot missions. At that point Shepard has critical information that makes him a severe danger. At least as dangerous as Tali and Liara, and they each got hit-squads sent after them. (infact Shepard did too)

You assume the Reapers are pragmatic.  They are not.  They are ruthlessly arrogant and utterly convinced of their plan's success.  To the Reapers, Shepard wasn't even worth swatting.  Even if he was, it would be Sovereign's job to get it done, not the Collectors.

[AlanC9]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Your life must be a perpetual disappointment, then. Or do you simply try to live in denial?

There's plenty of disappointment, yeah. However I've met plenty of competent people too.

So when you say "knowing what they're doing," you just mean ordinary competence? OK; I thought from the context that you were implying something more along the lines of having a detailed plan that's actually correct and sticking to that plan.

[Tazzmission]

Seboist wrote...

Walker White wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The handling of the ME "trilogy" is the best evidence there is with how overhyped Bioware's writing is. If it's so great then why do Gears of War and Blazblue(a freakin fighting game) have a far more cohesive story that flows better between games than ME? The former's buildup of it's lambest locust plotline and the latter with it's buildup of future (playable) characters are done better than anything in ME where each game is essentially a semi-reboot with a loose connection between each other.

Stories with no choice.  That has been a solved problem since the rise of the novel in the 18th century.

You can rage all you want about how insignificant the choice is in BioWare games.  However, the integration of choice into narrative (which is distinct from the disconnected quest design of sandbox games) is a hard, unsolved problem.

No choice?! Gears of War has entire alternate paths to choose from based on choice which is a tangible consequence instead of throwway dialogue that amounts to nothing. Blazblue's story mode also has tangible consequence due to having a real branching narrative that results in alternate opponents based on player choice.

The real kicker is that these two franchises aren't even RPGs sold on the basis of player choice and they blow ME out of the water.

um you do realize that shooter fanboys and rpg fanboys are two diffrent groups right?

gears is a fun trilogy no doubt but when it comes to story and charachters that touch me emotionaly mass effect beats gears in that area.

also remember that gears and mass effect are 2 diffrent frachises since one is just a shooter with gore and the other is story driven

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

You assume the Reapers are pragmatic.  They are not.

They look pragmatic to me.

I suppose the overbearing arrogance went right over your head then.

[Il Divo]

Saphra Deden wrote...

"Oh wow, why did we ever do that? What were we thinking?" <---- this is what happened!

Admittedly, the Suicide Mission's "let's make the entire squad killable" approach comes to mind.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

You have a rough outline of what you want to draw, but you have many ways to go about drawing it as you go along.

Well how rough is the outline? How rough should it be?

What if instead of a painting it is a ship or an air plane or a sky scraper? You need a pretty solid and detailed framework for one of those.

Stories are a very pure form of art. So is painting. They can be done in many ways while building such constructs has its limitations.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:38 .

[Il Divo]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

You assume the Reapers are pragmatic.  They are not.

They look pragmatic to me.

Uhh, not quite. A pragmatic race of machines would probably have had a more reliable plan than a backup Alpha Relay in case something went wrong with the Keepers. Something dependent entirely on their capabilities, rather than anyone else's.

Ex: The ability to activate the Citadel Relay from their side of dark space.

Modifié par Il Divo, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:38 .

[AlanC9]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Well sometimes I do. I hope the chef at my favorite restaurant sticks to his tried and tested recipe that I like.

I hope that the cashier at the grocery store does her job quickly and efficiently.

I hope that the airline plans its flights ahead of time to avoid delays and that the pilots are well trained and have a plotted course that they stick to so that we arrive on time.

None of which are relevant here. If anything, Bioware did too much cookbook stuff with ME1.

Edit: what I'm thinking of is stuff like lots of inventory items, the NWN/KotoR retread plot structure, and the stat-based combat. All stuff that Bio had done before, all stuff that made ME1 worse than it could have been, and -- thankfully -- all stuff that Bio had the courage to throw out for ME2.

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:40 .

[Seboist]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

Seboist wrote...

No choice?! Gears of War has entire alternate paths to choose from based on choice which is a tangible consequence instead of throwway dialogue that amounts to nothing. Blazblue's story mode also has tangible consequence due to having a real branching narrative that results in alternate opponents based on player choice.

The real kicker is that these two franchises aren't even RPGs sold on the basis of player choice and they blow ME out of the water.

I really hope you're joking. 

Oh I am, let me continue with it.

Metal Gear Solid 3 also blows ME out of the water when it comes to player choice as well like how Snake can choose to destroy a parked attack helicopter near the beginning to prevent it from pestering him later on(it causes enemies to patrol in floating platforms instead) or how he can choose to bomb ammo/food storage sheds to weaken enemy patrols. Both at the cost of alerting enemies of course.

Red Dead Remption's http://reddead.wikia.com/wiki/Honor' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'>honor meter is another example of tangible consequence based on player choice that demolishes ME's P/R system that only amounts in throwaway dialogue or getting a red explosion instead of a blue one.

Very funny indeed.

Modifié par Seboist, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:43 .

[Il Divo]

Saphra Deden wrote...

There plan worked for tens of millions of years, perhaps longer.

Even when it failed it only delayed them a little bit.

I don't think they are worried and I don't blame them.

The odds are not good for us, not good at all.

And that's the problem. What about the first time? I assume the plan had a starting point. To start, did the Reapers not consider what if something went wrong and they desperately needed to reach the Citadel again? Did they never have a backup plan? Or did they simply get rid of it? It only takes once for the plan to screw up, throwing a wrench in everything, as evidenced by the Reapers' backup of "we'll fly through dark space".

Modifié par Il Divo, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:45 .