320 réponses à ce sujet

[M4N0FF4I7H]

Thanks for the read OP.

[CroGamer002]

That's new?

[Il Divo]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

The title of the thread was the title of the article when i orginally found the link

http://n4g.com/news/...-goes-along/com

Still, it's interesting how these writers will purposely create articles with misleading titles when the contents don't support (or fully support) the name assigned to it. It seems unfair, since it indicates that Bioware is literally just throwing random items into a pot and into the oven without any thought.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Yeah, people just make things up as they go. It's not a new practice, and it's common even for good writers.

[Il Divo]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

They do it to pull in views. Once you read it... there may be more than meets the eye.

Damn advertising. And the worst/most obvious part: it works. 

[tetrisblock4x1]

Il Divo wrote...

From what I've heard, this practice isn't as uncommon as people think. Even with Star Wars, (if I recall) Lucas did not have any of the major plot points set up when he finished Episode IV. As they work, sometimes writers realize that things will be changed/may not work.

Sidenote: Lucas had a lot of help with the old trilogy, and had little to do with how good Empire Strikes back was.

[Severyx]

Is this the same playstation magazine that put out those shady/incorrect articles regarding character rosters?

Oh man, did I have a laugh.

[chance52]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

daqs wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...

What's funny is that i agree 100% with you guys. I didn't even give my thoughts on the topic but people are already assuming im a troll starting a flame thread. It was designed as a trilogy of course its gonna start as an outline. If I was at Bioware I wouldve done the same thing. I thought the topic was interesting so I posted it.

Your choice of thread title leaves a lot to be desired, then.

The title of the thread was the title of the article when i orginally found the link

http://n4g.com/news/...-goes-along/com

You post a link and the text of the article with no opinion of your own.  What's funny is that you were trolling and trying to start a flame thread.

[Random citizen]

Making up as one goes along implies improvising when you are out what is considered "planning time". It has a bad reputation, is not necessarily bad IF the one doing it has the right skill (which few have unfortunately), but it requires a lot, understanding the direction and logical consequences of the story elements, balancing different interpretations and expectations of them etc.

I happen to be quite good at it, or I used to be (haven't led a improvised Rpg session in years)

[tetrisblock4x1]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Which explains the lack of quality despite ever ballooning budgets...proving it doesn't take a ton of money to make a good game, just a good plan/plot (and some $, not much though).

Yeah, and sometimes all you need is style. Case in point: Limbo. It was a side scrolling platformer game which made it's fortune on style. It had no named characters, no apparant plot, no dialogue, no music... **** me, it didn't even jave any color. And yet it's considered to be a very emotional, and very artful game, and people loved it for its atmosphere like a dog loves to eat.

[Aimi]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Sidenote: Lucas had a lot of help with the old trilogy, and had little to do with how good Empire Strikes back was.

Oh, look, Lucas-bashing. How trite.

It's like seeing one of the innumerable fools who show up on military history boards trumpeting about how Sam Grant was a butcher who only won battles because he had more men, and who apparently (and erroneously) thinks that this is both a) a novel view that breaks the mold and true.

[aj2070]

That's It! I'm canceling my pre-order. How dare they make this up as they go. 

...because no one else had threatened to cancel their pre-order yet.

Modifié par aj2070, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:29 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

That's not true, there have been hundreds of threats of pre-order cancellation for Mass Effect alone. Bioware have been around since the mid 90's, they've probably had thousands of such threats because of stupid reasons.

[Medhia Nox]

@tetrisblack4x1: I don't agree with you that good writers make things up as they go along.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not talking about the small things in a story, or even a few major events, but I would argue that major story arcs are well laid out long before the story is ever written.

It has always seemed to me that ME's major storyline was also cobbled together in a rather hodgepodge fashion - this is probably due to trying to figure out if there would even be a 2 and 3.

If not - the war ends ominously with Sovereigns' defeat (which it should have anyway) - but because it was a success - 2 and 3 were born.

I don't imagine that games can be invented as a trilogy (or a never ending series) - so I imagine it is a weakness of the medium.

However - I think it might behoove design staffs of future Bioware titles to develop a trilogy and prepare for the possibility of a one title IP.

[nelly21]

daqs wrote...

Oh, look, Lucas-bashing. How trite.

It's like seeing one of the innumerable fools who show up on military history boards trumpeting about how Sam Grant was a butcher who only won battles because he had more men, and who apparently (and erroneously) thinks that this is both a) a novel view that breaks the mold and true.

On normal circumstances I would agree with you, but in the case of Lucas I cannot. His fall from my graces began with changing Han Solo's cantina scene, worsened with the Phantom Menace and ended with NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

HAN SHOT FIRST DAMMIT!!!!!

Not to mention mitichlorians. FU MITICHLORIANS!!!!!

And the ****ing gungans. ok I'll stop now

And Hayden Christiansen. WERE YOU EVEN TRYING?!?!? ok ok I'll stop.

Modifié par nelly21, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:40 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

I just want Starwars to reboot already so that the writers aren't ****ing stepping on each others toes with their own personal opinion on what kind of characters Boba Fett and Vader should be.

[DiegoProgMetal]

Any kind of artistic creation folow the same steps... First the artist creates a raw draft of the idea. Then, as it becomes more "solid" the details are added. It happens in songs (first a simple melody, then other layers of melody to create chords), in paintings (first the idea of what will be drawn, the details are added later), books, novels, soap operas... and games. Always the same principle.

[Arkitekt]

Il Divo wrote...

From what I've heard, this practice isn't as uncommon as people think. Even with Star Wars, (if I recall) Lucas did not have any of the major plot points set up when he finished Episode IV. As they work, sometimes writers realize that things will be changed/may not work.

This thread is just plainly ridiculous. Every written plot is like this. You have a general (forest) idea on how the plots will follow up over one another, and then when you are really sit down a full year in your chair trying to get the pieces together is when you make the big effort of gluing all the details together (the leaves of the trees). Because the devil is in the details, there will be always problems. But that's the life of every artist / creator. 90% of you people wouldn't even imagine how it is. I live it everyday.

[aj2070]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

That's not true, there have been hundreds of threats of pre-order cancellation for Mass Effect alone. Bioware have been around since the mid 90's, they've probably had thousands of such threats because of stupid reasons.

I know, I meant in this specific thread.  Had to keep the full tradition alive.

[Medhia Nox]

@Arkitekt: Then you must know that every artist works his/her craft differently?

[Il Divo]

Arkitekt wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

From what I've heard, this practice isn't as uncommon as people think. Even with Star Wars, (if I recall) Lucas did not have any of the major plot points set up when he finished Episode IV. As they work, sometimes writers realize that things will be changed/may not work.

This thread is just plainly ridiculous. Every written plot is like this. You have a general (forest) idea on how the plots will follow up over one another, and then when you are really sit down a full year in your chair trying to get the pieces together is when you make the big effort of gluing all the details together (the leaves of the trees). Because the devil is in the details, there will be always problems. But that's the life of every artist / creator. 90% of you people wouldn't even imagine how it is. I live it everyday.

Perhaps the article should be renamed Mass Effect 3: Writing is Hell. It would probably do a much better job of capturing how difficult it is for any writer to have the exact details of a story planned out in advance.

[sackyhack]

I've seen this kind of thing a lot with game development, and it's never reflected on the queality. Most recent was an interview with Naughty Dog who said they basically came up with the overarching plot, then set pieces, then the actual story when making the game. And that turned out to be one of the best games I've ever played. So this sort of thing doesn't really bother me.

[Il Divo]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Arkitekt: Then you must know that every artist works his/her craft differently?

True, but then it's easy to give in to the idea that all bad writing is improvised while all good writing is planned out completely in advance, and ignores many of the realities writers face. I could give you several good examples involving Star Wars, Watchmen, the new Batman trilogy, Legacy of Kain, amongst others. Good writing is not aways planned perfectly.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 janvier 2012 - 03:02 .