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[incinerator950]

Thank you.

[Terror_K]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Are you blind? Look at them. Their shapes, sizes and features are consistent throughout visions and match the statues themselves.

Go and actually play Mass Effect 2. It clearly shows Prothean's being turned into Collector's. 

So what, you're saying the beings in the visions which match the statues aren't Prothean? Then why would they create a message to show that Species X are being turned into Collector's, which are Prothean's themselves? Does that make sense to you? 

And that's the main thing that confuses me from what I've read. I've now seen something in the topic that was linked to me that seems to indicate that the species seen on Ilos and in the visions were apparently not Protheans, at least according to ME3 leaks (trying to be vague here, since I'd prefer not to spoil too much, and also didn't read the direct spoilers myself in the topic, only some discussions surrounding them). But if that's the case, then the beacon visions seem misdirected and inaccurate. Particularly the updated ME2 one, which if true basically changes the message from "Protheans = Collectors" into "Other Pre-Prothean Race = Collectors" which doesn't really fit at all, and warps the message entirely.

The only way I can think that the beacon images makes sense is if the Protheans discovered they originally were this pre-cursor race first somehow (as seen in the visions and statues, etc.) and that they were essentially manipulated into being who they are as they know it and then were made into Collectors (i.e. that they were merely a mid-stage manipulation/evolution that began with the Ilos race and eventually became the Collectors).

Modifié par Terror_K, 29 janvier 2012 - 01:20 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Terror_K wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Are you blind? Look at them. Their shapes, sizes and features are consistent throughout visions and match the statues themselves.

Go and actually play Mass Effect 2. It clearly shows Prothean's being turned into Collector's. 

So what, you're saying the beings in the visions which match the statues aren't Prothean? Then why would they create a message to show that Species X are being turned into Collector's, which are Prothean's themselves? Does that make sense to you? 

And that's the main thing that confuses me from what I've read. I've now seen something in the topic that was linked to me that seems to indicate that the species seen on Ilos and in the visions were apparently not Protheans, at least according to ME3 leaks (trying to be vague here, since I'd prefer not to spoil too much, and also didn't read the direct spoilers myself in the topic, only some discussions surrounding them). But if that's the case, then the beacon visions seem misdirected and inaccurate. Particularly the updated ME2 one, which if true basically changes the message from "Protheans = Collectors" into "Other Pre-Prothean Race = Collectors" which doesn't really fit at all, and warps the message entirely.

If the Ilos statues and beings in the visions end up not being Prothean's, it is a retcon. Probably accompanied by a shoddy piece of incongruous writing.

Terror_K wrote...

 Protheans discovered they originally were this pre-cursor race first somehow (as seen in the visions and statues, etc.) and that they were essentially manipulated into being who they are as they know it and then were made into Collectors (i.e. that they were merely a mid-stage manipulation/evolution that began with the Ilos race and eventually became the Collectors).

That would take a while.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 29 janvier 2012 - 01:23 .

[Someone With Mass]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

So what, you're saying the beings in the visions which match the statues aren't Prothean? Then why would they (them being the Protheans) create a message to show to other Protheans that Species X are being turned into Collector's, which are Prothean's themselves? Does that make sense to you? 

"Let's warn our fellow survivors of what the Reapers are doing to their captives by showing them this sequence of a cow being turned into a Collector".

Yeah, the ME1 vision was meant to lead surviving Protheans to Ilos, not show them images of statues. The visions were also a mess.

Are we going to call those machines covered in goo some kind of Reaper as well?

There are absolutely no hard facts that says those statues are Protheans and that weird vision in Shepard's head that doesn't even make sense to him.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 29 janvier 2012 - 01:28 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, the ME1 vision was meant to lead surviving Protheans to Ilos, not show them images of statues. The visions were also a mess.

Are we going to call those machines covered in goo some kind of Reaper as well?

The machines covered in goo are obviously indicative of the transformation from organic to machine. Your ability to interpret is suspect.

[Someone With Mass]

Oh, I'm sorry if I'm not able to interpret a scrambled vision in a character's head that doesn't even make sense to him, nor was it designed for his genetic makeup.

To quote Saren: Are we allowing dreams into evidence now?

[GnusmasTHX]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Oh, I'm sorry if I'm not able to interpret a scrambled vision in a character's head that doesn't even make sense to him, nor was it designed for his genetic makeup.

To quote Saren: Are we allowing dreams into evidence now?

They're not dreams, they're a purposefully created message. Shepard has the cipher. The images themselves he sees are the images meant to be conveyed. Just not cohesively (due to damage and Shepard being human), but enough to get the message across.

And look at it from a player perspective for god's sake. It's obvious what the visions mean to the player. You should learn to grasp at concepts without them being drawn out for you and labeled in big, bold letters.

And no, the visions wouldn't have pictures of the Ilos statues. They would have images of Protheans... Which just so happen to look like the statues. Ergo...? 

Concluded.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 29 janvier 2012 - 01:58 .

[Terror_K]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

If the Ilos statues and beings in the visions end up not being Prothean's, it is a retcon. Probably accompanied by a shoddy piece of incongruous writing.

I guess we'll find out. If everything is well-explained enough and fits, then fine... maybe it was a red-herring from the start. I'm willing to believe that may have been the intent from the get-go. But at the moment there are still too many holes in that given my information thus far to conclude that that's the case. It does seem like a retcon to me thus far, but I won't rule out that it wasn't and it's merely another twist. It's the beacon visions that are hampering that perspective right now.

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

 Protheans discovered they originally were this pre-cursor race first somehow (as seen in the visions and statues, etc.) and that they were essentially manipulated into being who they are as they know it and then were made into Collectors (i.e. that they were merely a mid-stage manipulation/evolution that began with the Ilos race and eventually became the Collectors).

That would take a while.

Well, Vigil himself says something along the lines of, "the genocide of an entire species is a long, slow process. Years passed. Decades. Centuries. But The Reapers persisted." Given this, while it is a stretch, it's not impossible. I'm still more willing to believe that our new Prothean friend is some half-stage Prothean well on the way to being a Collector than a pure, untransformed Prothean personally though.

[GnusmasTHX]

I think it'd make more sense that the Protheans conceded that the Collector form was advantageous with regards to combat and survival, so found a way to replicate the process but retain the identity of the subject to create some sort of Prothean super-soldier. He is, after all, all that survives his race. It's safe to assume the Protheans invested something in the individuals they selected to save.

Either that, or he's not really affiliated with Protheans at all despite sharing common biology. Because if he was ever captured by Collectors/Reapers before and begun the process of becoming a Collector and stopped midway, I very much doubt that any surviving Prothean would trust the guy. Let alone think, "this is the guy we're going to preserve and send to the future to save them from Collector's and Reapers"

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:00 .

[Selene Moonsong]

Off topic.. and there's already a topic for discussion of EDI.