386 réponses à ce sujet

[CDRSkyShepard]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
Not really, it's situational. It depends on the environment i.e. if it's wide or tight and cover placement, and enemy tipes and their behavior and current placement. If there's proper cover and weak enemy on the front, I get to it, kill with no problems, get everyone's attention in me, get to cover waiting for charge cooldown and then start to work the backs.

Of course everything's situational, and Soldier is a highly adaptive class. You have a flexibility to use any weapon, at any range, at any time. This is why they are the primary clearers of battlefields. They're built to be the tanks/walking arsenals. See my USMC/Vanguard US Army/Soldier comparison above. They're also more deliberate and strategic. Vanguards are the "run and gun" and "high risk, high reward" fighters. The Vanguard is named "vanguard" because their specialty lies in the front-runner, first-in approach to combat, not their stamina or ability to clear a battlefield. Can they do it? Sure. The Vanguard is a combat/biotic class mix, so you can fall back on those combat abilities to adapt to more Soldier-like gameplay. The biotics just make the Vanguard faster, thus suiting him/her for the quick, hard-hitting, front-runner attack. The Soldier, on the other hand, exists to absorb punishment and dole out punishment, brutally and deliberately...the "blunt instrument," if you will.

Both classes can clear rooms and battlefields, but that isn't the Vanguard's area of expertise, it's the Soldier's. The Vanguard's area of expertise is to keep the enemy off balance and scared for their lives. 

[HolyAvenger]

Lets not get too analogous to real-life...biotics make things difficult to quantify. Adepts are basically sci-fi mages.

[Derahu]

I think the poll of which class will be chosen the most is reflected exactly based on the replies in this thread. I guess me and my combat drone ("static shock") will be debuffing unappreciated as the other three classes argue who is better at killing things. In the end, I'll probably get the blame for "WHY U NO DBUFF!! or WHY U NO REZ!?" making me the equivalent of a healer in a MMO...


There should be a MP song for ME3 equivalent to this song in the link.

Modifié par Derahu, 29 janvier 2012 - 04:01 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Lets not get too analogous to real-life...biotics make things difficult to quantify. Adepts are basically sci-fi mages.

Yeah lol.

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
Not really, it's situational. It depends on the environment i.e. if it's wide or tight and cover placement, and enemy tipes and their behavior and current placement. If there's proper cover and weak enemy on the front, I get to it, kill with no problems, get everyone's attention in me, get to cover waiting for charge cooldown and then start to work the backs.

Of course everything's situational, and Soldier is a highly adaptive class. You have a flexibility to use any weapon, at any range, at any time. This is why they are the primary clearers of battlefields. They're built to be the tanks/walking arsenals. See my USMC/Vanguard US Army/Soldier comparison above. They're also more deliberate and strategic. Vanguards are the "run and gun" and "high risk, high reward" fighters. The Vanguard is named "vanguard" because their specialty lies in the front-runner, first-in approach to combat, not their stamina or ability to clear a battlefield. Can they do it? Sure. The Vanguard is a combat/biotic class mix, so you can fall back on those combat abilities to adapt to more Soldier-like gameplay. The biotics just make the Vanguard faster, thus suiting him/her for the quick, hard-hitting, front-runner attack. The Soldier, on the other hand, exists to absorb punishment and dole out punishment, brutally and deliberately...the "blunt instrument," if you will.

Both classes can clear rooms and battlefields, but that isn't the Vanguard's area of expertise, it's the Soldier's. The Vanguard's area of expertise is to keep the enemy off balance and scared for their lives. 

I wouldn't go that far, all classes are capable "soldiers" and room/battlefield clearers. My point was that Vanguards are more versitile than going on their backs with charge blasting them while others distract their front. There are situations that is not the best tactic and even when charge is 100% suicidal. I just went through a situation like this when enemies 4 were in a line and there was no cover to take after a charge. Best way was to take down barriers and finish with pull, that's why I prefer to take with me an assault rifle and the eviscerator than take the claymore.

All classes deal with guns, all of them shoot to kill, it's just that the soldier is an expert in guns and a more dps (I think?) role; adept in biotics, crowd control; engineer in tech, crowd control; and the hybrids go cqc, sniping and tanking. I think that those roles and which class is more capable of making damage than others are going besides Bioware's intentions anyway, they made 6 different classes so there's choice to players preference in the 3 different combat systems (guns, biotics, tech) and incentive to replayability. Mass Effect gameplay core is in squad gameplay be it single or multiplayer so you'll always have someone to support your rough edges.

[CDRSkyShepard]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Lets not get too analogous to real-life...biotics make things difficult to quantify. Adepts are basically sci-fi mages.

HolyAvenger, when will you ever stop making sense??? Lol.

But no, seriously though, I think the parallels I draw to RL combat tactics are perfectly reasonable. Whether you're talking Mass Effect, Skyrim, chess, or the Battle of the Bulge, you have your different pieces on the proverbial board that do certain things certain ways...specialize in one thing or another. Strategy is strategy, no matter how you slice it. I draw parallels to RL combat because as a future officer of the US Navy, I know a thing or two about it, so thus I draw connections.

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
I wouldn't go that far, all classes are capable "soldiers" and room/battlefield clearers. My point was that Vanguards are more versitile than going on their backs with charge blasting them while others distract their front. There are situations that is not the best tactic and even when charge is 100% suicidal. I just went through a situation like this when enemies 4 were in a line and there was no cover to take after a charge. Best way was to take down barriers and finish with pull, that's why I prefer to take with me an assault rifle and the eviscerator than take the claymore. 

All classes deal with guns, all of them shoot to kill, it's just that the soldier is an expert in guns and a more dps (I think?) role; adept in biotics, crowd control; engineer in tech, crowd control; and the hybrids go cqc, sniping and tanking. I think that those roles and which class is more capable of making damage than others are going besides Bioware's intentions anyway, they made 6 different classes so there's choice to players preference in the 3 different combat systems (guns, biotics, tech) and incentive to replayability. Mass Effect gameplay core is in squad gameplay be it single or multiplayer so you'll always have someone to support your rough edges. 

So...does that mean the Soldier has no real expertise? Sure, you can "soldier" with any class, but what I'm saying is the Soldier is the only class dedicated to "soldiering," if that makes any sense.

[khevan]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Lets not get too analogous to real-life...biotics make things difficult to quantify. Adepts are basically sci-fi mages.

HolyAvenger, when will you ever stop making sense??? Lol.

But no, seriously though, I think the parallels I draw to RL combat tactics are perfectly reasonable. Whether you're talking Mass Effect, Skyrim, chess, or the Battle of the Bulge, you have your different pieces on the proverbial board that do certain things certain ways...specialize in one thing or another. Strategy is strategy, no matter how you slice it. I draw parallels to RL combat because as a future officer of the US Navy, I know a thing or two about it, so thus I draw connections.

*quotesnip

edit:  I would like to apologize for the following comments to any who read this later.  I was out of line, and a later post gives a (brief) explanation as to what happened.  That said, as much as I would like to erase this post and pretend it didn't happen, I'm leaving it up to take full accountability for it.  Once again, my apologizes.

responding to the bolded

Have you ever had to duck behind cover because you've heard the hiss/crack of a bullet passing within inches of your head?  Have you ever seen your buddies bloody, wounded and dying?  As an officer, have you sat in your command center and listened on the radio to the frantic calls of troops asking for reinforcements because they just got attacked?  Have you ever sat in a Bradley Fighting Vehicle and had to drive through an inferno of RPG strikes, because the turret got hit and can't fire back, so all you can do is run and save your buddies lives?  Have you ever seen the bodies of enemy dead and had to force yourself not to care?


You have learned theory. You have learned strategy. You have learned tactics, but if you cannot answer yes to any of the above questions, I must respectfully submit that you know nothing about combat.

Modifié par khevan, 29 janvier 2012 - 09:42 .

[Confused-Shepard]

How many of you will try to role play as be all, "Shepard needs us! We are the clean up crew! OORAH! Let's show these Cerberus thugs what we are made of!" and how many will have fun, more or less goof off?

I will goof off but keep quoting the enemy taunts. "Weakening their integrity" and such

[RyuGuitarFreak]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...
So...does that mean the Soldier has no real expertise? Sure, you can "soldier" with any class, but what I'm saying is the Soldier is the only class dedicated to "soldiering," if that makes any sense.

Yes it kinda did after some search on internet for the translation or context on my main language lol, but I disagree. Shepard no matter what class you pick will be always a highest ranked
special forces marine. Shepard is always dedicated to "soldiering". The expertise of the soldier was always clear:

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
the soldier is an expert in guns

Hes has more bonuses on things related to phyisical condition, gets a lot of health boost and storm speed, but don't tank as much as the sentinel I believe.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 29 janvier 2012 - 08:05 .

[CDRSkyShepard]

khevan wrote...

responding to the bolded

Have you ever had to duck behind cover because you've heard the hiss/crack of a bullet passing within inches of your head?  Have you ever seen your buddies bloody, wounded and dying?  As an officer, have you sat in your command center and listened on the radio to the frantic calls of troops asking for reinforcements because they just got attacked?  Have you ever sat in a Bradley Fighting Vehicle and had to drive through an inferno of RPG strikes, because the turret got hit and can't fire back, so all you can do is run and save your buddies lives?  Have you ever seen the bodies of enemy dead and had to force yourself not to care?


You have learned theory. You have learned strategy. You have learned tactics, but if you cannot answer yes to any of the above questions, I must respectfully submit that you know nothing about combat.

Respectfully, Sir, I am female. They won't allow me into "combat" unless I join the army and become a field medic. I am a pilot, not a medic.

So yes, I shall sit on my future aircraft carrier and study strategy, ACM, and learning how steel my nerves in order to land on a pitching carrier deck at night in the rain. That is, if my aviation billet goes through. If it doesn't, well, then I'm at a desk doing surface warfare ops. It's not like they'd let me be a SEAL or Infantry.

"Combat" can also be defined as any engagement on the ground, air-to-air, air-to-ground, ship-to-ship, etc. At no point did I say I knew firsthand about any. I might have said I know a thing or two, but definitely not "all." I also study aircraft crash survivability...does that mean I've actually survived an airplane crash? No. But does that mean I have at least some idea about the horrors of a post-impact fire that will melt through the skin of a commercial airliner in a mere 90 seconds? Yeah.

I also submit to you, respectfully, that we're talking about a video game, here. And, specifically video game combat. If it makes you feel better, I will revise my statement to say that I draw parallels to RL combat theory, since I know a thing or two about it.

That said, I can tell you have seen the real deal, and I thank you for your service. I have the utmost respect for veterans, and I can only hope I will serve my country as well as they have.

[Drone223]

When it comes to facing certain enimes some classes are better suited than other's, some should be delt with from a distance other's can should be done up close, though to be effective in MP all classes should support each other, don't rely heavily on a cetain class

Modifié par Drone223, 29 janvier 2012 - 08:57 .

[Zeju]

Ok I'm stopping all this arguing and bringing all sense into it.

#1: Everyone here is assuming you have good/bad teammates, mixing up their facts based on different scenarios, so there is no one right answer, the simple fact is that we can't judge Co-Ops from Singleplayer, because Human's arn't AI's. I know I'm a damn better shot then Garrus or Legion. But what good would that do me in Co-Op for explaining my role as an Infiltrator? People shouldn't be relying on Singeplayer AI, but how the people play their Shepards.

#2: There is no "your my support, I'm the main guy". That's Messi and Barca, thats Ronaldo and Madrid, its not Mass Effect, it's not the army, the game is one of few built on teamwork, keep that in mind. There's no singlular best class, they all cover each other and if played well, support each other. A perfect example of this is sometimes neither a Vanguard nor a Soldier is suited to a situation, sometimes it could be an Engineer, a Biotic, I know Liara/Samara have saved my life a few times, and a Human that knows that class would be ten fold the AI's abilitys.

#3: I am currently breezing through both games on Insanity, doing 100% of both games, and I'm finding it rather easy. If I were to use this in an argument to justify my means as a good player in Co-Op, would this have any relevance whatsoever? Of course not, experiences differ, no one has played Co-Op yet, hell no one even has played ME3 yet, so has us all in a disadvantage.

I love that people are so passionate about it, but as an Infiltrator, I wouldn't rather have a Soldier or a Vanguard on the team to attack/protect, hell you know, I'd probably prefer a Biotic that could disable melee Husks/ectera when they get too close, give me an opportunity to relocate.

Anyway, sorry if I took too long, but I thought those 3 points are vital and I just wanted my voice to be heard. Thanks for reading.

Plus I love attention. Shh dont tell anyone.

[khevan]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Respectfully, Sir, I am female. They won't allow me into "combat" unless I join the army and become a field medic. I am a pilot, not a medic.

So yes, I shall sit on my future aircraft carrier and study strategy, ACM, and learning how steel my nerves in order to land on a pitching carrier deck at night in the rain. That is, if my aviation billet goes through. If it doesn't, well, then I'm at a desk doing surface warfare ops. It's not like they'd let me be a SEAL or Infantry.

"Combat" can also be defined as any engagement on the ground, air-to-air, air-to-ground, ship-to-ship, etc. At no point did I say I knew firsthand about any. I might have said I know a thing or two, but definitely not "all." I also study aircraft crash survivability...does that mean I've actually survived an airplane crash? No. But does that mean I have at least some idea about the horrors of a post-impact fire that will melt through the skin of a commercial airliner in a mere 90 seconds? Yeah.

I also submit to you, respectfully, that we're talking about a video game, here. And, specifically video game combat. If it makes you feel better, I will revise my statement to say that I draw parallels to RL combat theory, since I know a thing or two about it.

That said, I can tell you have seen the real deal, and I thank you for your service. I have the utmost respect for veterans, and I can only hope I will serve my country as well as they have.

I would like to apologize for my earlier comments.  Without going into too much detail, because this isn't the place for it, certain events triggered a case of PTSD.  I've gotten counselling, and most days I'm "normal."  Sometimes, things trigger the disorder, and it can take me a bit to pull myself back from that.  This was one of those times.  Looking at it from a distance, I realize you were talking about a game, and I shouldn't have gone off the handle like that.  Your comment did not deserve the response it got, and so I apologize.

I am a civilian now, and so I would like to thank you for your current and future service.  I did my part, but my time is over and now it is you and those like you who carry the torch.  So, I will end this on a positive note, and thank you for what you and those like you do for me and mine.

[Zeju]

I think your both heroes.

[Abraham_uk]

Before I start, let me state that my list of classes is as follows.

1)Adept
My favourite class. I love singularity, warp, and having pull, throw and shockwave up my sleeve. For me that's biotic heaven. Why is it above vanguard for me? Well I love this class mostly because black holes or should I say blue holes just look fantastic. I don't know about Mass Effect 3, but this is the only class that can set up warp bombs without help of other classes. Bring it on!!!!

2) Vanguard (okay read carefully. This is not a criticism of the vanguard class, this is a criticism of vanguard players. I know how daft they can be because I'm one of them).

Rock star class, rock star finish. Like any laclustre rockstar, very flashy moves but little talent. In other words frontmen charging to their deaths. However with a skilled tactician, well that class can do wonders. Would be the best class ever if it were in the right hands. This class is just awesome! I can't resist the flashy CHARGE! In the right hands it the best power of them all, in the wrong hands it's suicide. Vanguards are not gimicky classes. They are insane adrenaline junkies geting 5 fixes a minute. More deaths are caused by charging, and faster victories are attained through charging.

3) Engineer

Not enough love for this class. I advice people to give this one a try, this one has many surprises. If Vanguard is the frontman of the band, the engineer is the song writer who never appears on stage. Okay lame metaphor, but this one is happy to manipulate the battlefield from a distance. While trigger happy goons grab all the glory, the fans will happily forget that it was the engineer that made it possible.

You haven't played engineer? What do you mean you haven't played engineer? The worst thing about this class is that very few people seem to recognise how awesome it is. This wizard can cast lightning, ice and fire, can perform mind control on synthetics and provides distraction with a combat drone which will soon be a combat turret. What part of that package is lame? None of it.

4) Infiltrator:
Yes another one of the popular three. Infiltrators are the thinking man's soldier. They don't directly engage in combat like the soldier and they don't have the words "look at me" tattoed on their forehead. Often seen as cowards for sniping from a distance, all teams should have at least one guy who can use a sniper rifle. Infiltrators are the specialist. Add to that invisibility, and bizzarely incendiary blast and you have a rogue with a little bit of versatility. Hacking mechs is fun too.

5)Sentinel
Perhaps Sentinel should be higher than 5. Besides the Sentinel is a great class. If they are a specialist at something it is protection removal. In addition they sport strong shield boosts, cryo blast and biotic throw. They don't have the all the biotic tools of the adept, are not as aggressive as the vanguard, are not as tech savvy as the engineer and are not as stealthy as the infiltrator. But like the soldier they have hit points. More hit points than any other class. Meaning, when the going gets tough, the Sentinel keeps giving, outlasting any other class. If foes get any funny ideas of destroying the tech armour, well, an energy pulse will teach them not to mess with this badass.

6) Soldier: Well lets see. Besides slowing down time (which is really the only reason for me to choose the class) they can equip every weapon (except SMG though this may not be the case in ME 3). Some neat ammo powers and a concussive shot along with a nice choice of guns. So basically another shoot em up with bullet time. I'm sorry but I've played loads of shooters. People who have only played this class and none other are missing out, BIG TIME.

Nevertheless Soldier is a brillant class in it's own right. Sure it is in 6th position on my personal list, but come on, this is just some guy's list. A random pleb from the United Kingdom that you don't even know. Why get angry because soldier isn't in my top three?

Vanguards still rock my world. There is an arrorgant rock star inside of me who wants to steal all the fame and glory charging from album to album shouting, screaming and hopefully kicking some ass!!!!!! Either than or charging into the grim reapers!!!!!

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 29 janvier 2012 - 10:38 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...
Of course everything's situational, and Soldier is a highly adaptive class. You have a flexibility to use any weapon, at any range, at any time. This is why they are the primary clearers of battlefields. They're built to be the tanks/walking arsenals. See my USMC/Vanguard US Army/Soldier comparison above. They're also more deliberate and strategic. Vanguards are the "run and gun" and "high risk, high reward" fighters. The Vanguard is named "vanguard" because their specialty lies in the front-runner, first-in approach to combat, not their stamina or ability to clear a battlefield. Can they do it? Sure. The Vanguard is a combat/biotic class mix, so you can fall back on those combat abilities to adapt to more Soldier-like gameplay. The biotics just make the Vanguard faster, thus suiting him/her for the quick, hard-hitting, front-runner attack. The Soldier, on the other hand, exists to absorb punishment and dole out punishment, brutally and deliberately...the "blunt instrument," if you will.

Both classes can clear rooms and battlefields, but that isn't the Vanguard's area of expertise, it's the Soldier's. The Vanguard's area of expertise is to keep the enemy off balance and scared for their lives. 

Correction: Vanguard's area of expertise is getting up close (fast), completely destroying what's in front of them (fast), and moving on to the next target (fast) while regenerating with every biotic charge. 

Vanguards excel at close quarters combat and can get into that range almost instantly.  As part of a team, a Vanguard could indeed prove useful keeping the enemy off balance (as you said) and picking them off in a literal crossfire. 

They also (thanks to ME3's 'no friendly fire') excel at taking on the enemy alone while keeping the rest of the team safe (and at a safe distance) providing covering/support fire... if they wanted to go that way.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Multiple times in Mass Effect 2, I'd clear an area of enemies before my squad even got there.^^  That's Vanguard Power.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 29 janvier 2012 - 10:38 .

[Abraham_uk]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Multiple times in Mass Effect 2, I'd clear an area of enemies before my squad even got there.^^  That's Vanguard Power.

Only in the right hands. In the right hands the vanguard is the best class!


There is only one law regarding the vanguard!
This class must be played tactically. Brute strength will lead to early grave. Tractical strength will lead to early victory.

Yes this rule applies to all six classes but especially for the vanguard who lives and dies on one power. CHARRRRRGE!!!!!

[Phoenix_Fyre]

I'm replaying my ME2 Vanguard. I'm rusty at charging.... I spam it at the wrong times.

I know that it makes the Vasir fight just THAT much sweeter.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Abraham_uk wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Multiple times in Mass Effect 2, I'd clear an area of enemies before my squad even got there.^^  That's Vanguard Power.

Only in the right hands. In the right hands the vanguard is the best class!


There is only one law regarding the vanguard!
This class must be played tactically. Brute strength will lead to early grave. Tractical strength will lead to early victory.

Yes this rule applies to all six classes but especially for the vanguard who lives and dies on one power. CHARRRRRGE!!!!!

I like that.  CHARRRGE!!!!!

[Drone223]

If a Vanguard is against enimies such as the Brute, Phantom, Atlas mech and Guardian they should stay back and let other classes deal with them, these enimies are ment to be engage from a distance, (you can charge at them if you want but that proberly isn't a good idea)

  

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

^ The second time this motivational is shown in here. I was first! Does that mean you're my squad?

Depends... as I made that a long time ago

[DnVill]

I played vanguard on ME2. I used charge mostly to regen my shields. It has a better cooldown time and invulnerability. After my newly acquired shields are down most of the time charge is ready.

I would think that multiplayer doesnt have the luxury of pausing so overly aggressive vanguards would end up dead or waiting to be revived for the length of the mission.


But I think there's one thing more satisfying than charging at someone with a Vanguard. Its charging someone as a Krogan.. haha 

Modifié par DnVill, 30 janvier 2012 - 12:23 .

[HolyAvenger]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Lets not get too analogous to real-life...biotics make things difficult to quantify. Adepts are basically sci-fi mages.

HolyAvenger, when will you ever stop making sense??? Lol.

I hope never;)

Look I think arguing about classes is rather pointless. The class is only as good as the hands it is in. I've finished the game on insanity with both a vanguard and a soldier (and infiltrator, adept and sentinel...must get around to doing the engie run soon), and I've felt both are equally lethal just in very different ways in the game. In fact the most lethal class I think I've played (i.e. the quickest kills, the shortest combat encounters) was with a Widow Infiltrator once I was headshotting regularly. Oh boy. That was carnage.

Transplanting them to some mythical actual ME'verse strips out the player's skill factor but also makes them difficult to compare. The vanguard's abilities give him some advantages on a battlefield that a soldier can only dream off, and vice versa...it really depends on the given situation at hand at which class would be better in which situation. But you're dealing in such apples and oranges, and in a situation very different from our world, that I think such 'real world' comparisons are meaningless and people are better off sticking to gameplay comparisons. 

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 30 janvier 2012 - 02:36 .