386 réponses à ce sujet

[CDRSkyShepard]

khevan wrote...

I would like to apologize for my earlier comments.  Without going into too much detail, because this isn't the place for it, certain events triggered a case of PTSD.  I've gotten counselling, and most days I'm "normal."  Sometimes, things trigger the disorder, and it can take me a bit to pull myself back from that.  This was one of those times.  Looking at it from a distance, I realize you were talking about a game, and I shouldn't have gone off the handle like that.  Your comment did not deserve the response it got, and so I apologize.

I am a civilian now, and so I would like to thank you for your current and future service.  I did my part, but my time is over and now it is you and those like you who carry the torch.  So, I will end this on a positive note, and thank you for what you and those like you do for me and mine.

No need to apologize, Brother. I know it must be difficult for you, as it is for a few of my friends who also saw service. We're all in this together, even when - especially when - our brothers and sisters come home. It is already forgotten.

It's not my time to serve quite yet...hopefully my papers for OCS will come through soon, maybe before summer if I'm lucky. The ol' military waiting game...

Oh-KAY, back OT:

I think all the classes have something of value to them, and that they all have certain scenarios and combat situations where they shine. I'm always going to be partial to the Infiltrator, though...because I love the satisfaction that comes from lining up that perfect shot. Vanguards are fun, too...especially when you can open up a can of whoop-a** on a squad. Though, I'm not quite as good at the latter as I am at the former.

I wanna play ALL the classes in the MP. But Infiltrator, Vanguard, and Soldier will be the first three through! 

@ HolyAvenger - I see where you're going with that, I really do...but when I talk strategy, I simplify it down to more basic things than the six combat classes...you look at what kind of players are adaptable, which ones are durable, which ones are fast...that kind of thing. You can apply RL strategy to board games, video games...I guess it makes sense to me, and so long as it makes sense to me it works for me, right? Hahaha. XD

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 30 janvier 2012 - 03:09 .

[HolyAvenger]

Thing is, strategy is a player choice, so the class becomes just part of that strategy. Like CQC and shotguns? Vanguard. Like long range kills and sniper rifles? Infiltrator. Like having the most protection and drawing enemy fire? Sentinel. So on and so forth. Then there's variants in the classes...like sneaking up on people and shooting them up close? Shotgun infiltrator. Like using assault armor to knock down enemies? Shotgun sentinel. Like long-range firepower and the ability to close to the enemy quickly? Sniper rifle vanguard.

You can talk about strategy in terms of players, but not in terms of classes imo. So there's no point saying stuff like soldiers are better at combat than vanguards for example. Its pretty meaningless as a statement.

[Phoenix_Fyre]

Ok I may have gotten my news scrambled but we can only use two weapons in MP right?

My dream would be mattock + widow for my infiltrator or mattock + tempest for my adept

[SykoWolf]

Anyone who took the time to read page 11 of this topic know where I stand on this topic........but I must state it again. Vanguards are decent at distracting enemy forces while soldiers and infiltrators kill them off with the assistance of adepts and engineers. That being said, I believe that overall, the soldier is designed to do the most killing.

[Zeju]

Boom. Headshot.

Game over. Zeju wins.

Nah seriously, I'm very excited about this, and again I feel there will be a level of unique and customzation, not just in player style but weapons, and build, kit, ectera.

If this is the case.. Every person will be different. And by extension, no two infy's will be the same, no two Vanguards will be the same, no two Engineers.

Speaking of Engy's, turrents i love you.

[SykoWolf]

Zeju never mentioned the soldiers but seriously I have more respect for infiltrators anf vanguards then any other class (except soldiers)

[LetMeW1n]

Lol. I think I'm going with the soldier too. Always knew how to soak all the fun from an reliable shooter. But since this is mass effect, of course I'm going to try out all available classes. During a playthrough recently as an engineer, on a relatively safe hardcore mode I definitely had as much fun during combat as I remembered with a soldier or an infiltrator. Got to see their supposed crowd control abilities first hand and really use the powerful heavy pistol.

Maybe more challenging though, but that's just inexperience. I feel that their potential should not be underestimated in comparison to the conservative soldiers, niche appeal of infiltrators and flashy unique vanguards.

Edit: Right, haven't being here long, this just an old account never used before. o.o seems like a lot of people have more experience playing this game. Will learn to read posts 1st Just saying I really actually liked the engineer class.  And hey I'm 17 too 0.o:blink:

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 30 janvier 2012 - 01:20 .

[SykoWolf]

LetMeW1n wrote...

Lol. I think I'm going with the soldier too. Always knew how to soak all the fun from an reliable shooter. But since this is mass effect, of course I'm going to try out all available classes. During a playthrough recently as an engineer, on a relatively safe hardcore mode I definitely had as much fun during combat as I remembered with a soldier or an infiltrator. Got to see their supposed crowd control abilities first hand and really use the powerful heavy pistol.

Maybe more challenging though, but that's just inexperience. I feel that their potential should not be underestimated in comparison to the conservative soldiers, niche appeal of infiltrators and flashy unique vanguards.

Well I can agree that engineers are very usefull, they don't have the killing power of a soldier, BUT they do use there abilities in a very effective way against the enemy and there better in groups of 3

[nitefyre410]

Vanguard, Sentinel , and Engineer.... I can see myself having a lot of fun as engineer. locking down and controlling the battlefield.

[Ice Cold J]

LPPrince wrote...

Vanguards are just that- Vanguards, the first line of defense.

Vanguards should be busting enemies doors down while the other classes spread out, get some room between them and the enemy, and kill the enemies focused on their Vanguard buddy.

Obviously Infiltrators stay back(unless they want to cloak and get in some CQC), Soldiers are free to move about pretty much anywhere, Sentinels should help tank, and Engineers/Adepts should try to stay safe and use some crowd control.

Team work for survival, folks.

"Me? I'm just happy to have Noble back up to full strength. Just one thing: I've seen your file... even the parts the ONI sensors didn't want me to. I'm glad to have your skillset, but we're a team. That lone wolf stuff stays behind. Clear?"
- SPARTAN A259-Carter, Halo: Reach

[AndrewJShepard]

Foremost Engineer player right here, on highest difficulties it is stupid hard but each battle won makes me feel insanely accomplished having had to intensely evaluate the battlefield and dish out abilities accurately and timely.

I think being a Engineer in MP will get me killed considering I wont be able to pause and think, just peeking out of cover to shoot an incendiary on hardcore usually left me with a vein covered screen.

So vanguard ftw in MP!

[Annihilator27]

Vanguards and Infiltrators are going to be the best of friends lmao.

[Pee Jae]

Lost another one to Vanguard. *sighs and throws incinerate*

[wannabuyanun]

I'm now extremely happy I'm a vanguard

[AndrewJShepard]

t_skwerl wrote...

Lost another one to Vanguard. *sighs and throws incinerate*

*activates emergency geth shields* Not lost, just concerned. Did I mention that defense turrets sound completely stupid? Thats what my drone is for, last I checked the combat was a little too quick to have a stationary unit, plus how boring? Id rather have a "throw wrench" or "draw blueprint" skill.

[Pee Jae]

Oh, I get it. I like Vanguards. I just imagine, like others have said, this is going to look like one messed up scifi pinball game. 

[Zeju]

SykoWolf wrote...

Zeju never mentioned the soldiers but seriously I have more respect for infiltrators anf vanguards then any other class (except soldiers)

Soldier's are extremely fun to play, they have the rarest weapon selection, they're the only class that can weild both the Geth Pulse Rifle and the Widow!

I have respect for every class. Each one is deadly in its own way. But Engineers is probably the one I hate to fight, that roaming battle droid pisses me off when im in cover and trying to snipe - that said, an Engy makes a good ally for opposite reasons.

[CDRSkyShepard]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Thing is, strategy is a player choice, so the class becomes just part of that strategy. Like CQC and shotguns? Vanguard. Like long range kills and sniper rifles? Infiltrator. Like having the most protection and drawing enemy fire? Sentinel. So on and so forth. Then there's variants in the classes...like sneaking up on people and shooting them up close? Shotgun infiltrator. Like using assault armor to knock down enemies? Shotgun sentinel. Like long-range firepower and the ability to close to the enemy quickly? Sniper rifle vanguard.

You can talk about strategy in terms of players, but not in terms of classes imo. So there's no point saying stuff like soldiers are better at combat than vanguards for example. Its pretty meaningless as a statement.

Perhaps, but I'm still sticking to my guns in saying certain classes are better at certain combat techniques and strategies: Infiltrators are optimized for the long-range kill, Vanguards are optimized for the melee option, etc. You've got classes that are more power-dedicated, some that are more gun-dedicated. True, you can have a Vanguard sniper or a shotgun Infiltrator. But, I'd submit to you that you kind of pigeonhole the Vanguard if you make it a long-distance fighter, given that they're skilled with shotguns and can close distances very rapidly with Charge. Now, it's even more so in ME3 because of Nova. You can snipe enemies from a distance to weaken them before you Charge, sure, but I still say that's a close-quarters fight, not a long-range fight. In the end, you're still getting close and utilizing the Vanguard's prowess in the brawl, making the Vanguard not suited to be a true long-range fighter. I guess everyone's definition of "true long range fighter" could be different from mine, but, in my opinion, if you get that close to the enemy at any point, you're not a "long range fighter."

The shotgun Infiltrator is the only example I can think of where a class can't be flexible without compromising what that class was "designed" to be good at. However, in ME1, you can't use a shotgun at all (and you really have no reason to, since there's no cloak), and in ME2, when you start out, you can't get a shotgun until the Collector Ship mission. 

I never tried to say that any one class is better at combat in general, because they're all fighters, no? Soldiers, in my opinion, are the class optimized for dedicated shooting combat. I just read-through my posts and realized I never put it that way and could see where there would be confusion.

In regards to what I bolded: players definitely choose their own strategies. They also choose the class based on their personal strategy because the classes are suited to certain strategies. This is especially true of new players. When I first started playing Mass Effect, I chose the Infiltrator because I wasn't comfortable with enemies getting close to me, so using a class that was designed to be long-range sounded like a good idea. After I did my first playthrough of ME1 and ME2, everyone recommended I try the Vanguard next, so I tried it...and I got my butt kicked. Now that I'm more experienced, I'm better at it and really enjoy it. Still, my personal preference for strategy is to keep my enemies from getting close (even take pride in not letting them get close and getting in headshots), flanking enemies, and wearing their defenses down with tech attacks, thus my preferred class is Infiltrator.

That make any sense at all? Trying to post and doing 中文 (Chinese) homework simultaneouly makes my head explode sometimes. XD

(Edit for grammar)

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 31 janvier 2012 - 12:13 .

[HolyAvenger]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...


Perhaps, but I'm still sticking to my guns in saying certain classes are better at certain combat techniques and strategies: Infiltrators are optimized for the long-range kill, Vanguards are optimized for the melee option, etc. You've got classes that are more power-dedicated, some that are more gun-dedicated. True, you can have a Vanguard sniper or a shotgun Infiltrator. But, I'd submit to you that you kind of pigeonhole the Vanguard if you make it a long-distance fighter, given that they're skilled with shotguns and can close distances very rapidly with Charge. Now, it's even more so in ME3 because of Nova. You can snipe enemies from a distance to weaken them before you Charge, sure, but I still say that's a close-quarters fight, not a long-range fight. In the end, you're still getting close and utilizing the Vanguard's prowess in the brawl, making the Vanguard not suited to be a true long-range fighter. I guess everyone's definition of "true long range fighter" could be different from mine, but, in my opinion, if you get that close to the enemy at any point, you're not a "long range fighter."

Its all about flexibility. The Collector vessel offers you a chance to either go for a more pure-Vanguard build or build your vanguard to engage enemies at any range before charging into combat. I don't think it pigeonholes the class at all. A sniper vanguard can take down an enemy, allowing a charge into his buddy now all alone, or strip armor or other protections, allowing a charge into an unprotected or lower-protected enemy guaranteeing a one-shot kill. And of course, some enemies will always be in places that can't be charged (frigging vorcha heavies on Mordin's recruitment mission...). Its not about being a long-range fighter. Its about being an any-range fighter who can still use vanguard abilities. 

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

The shotgun Infiltrator is the only example I can think of where a class can't be flexible without compromising what that class was "designed" to be good at. However, in ME1, you can't use a shotgun at all (and you really have no reason to, since there's no cloak), and in ME2, when you start out, you can't get a shotgun until the Collector Ship mission. 

You can use any weapon you want to in 1 via bonus powers. 

CDRSkyShepard wrote...


I never tried to say that any one class is better at combat in general, because they're all fighters, no? Soldiers, in my opinion, are the class optimized for dedicated shooting combat. I just read-through my posts and realized I never put it that way and could see where there would be confusion.

I see where you're coming from. Of course soldiers are dedicated to shooting combat (they have no other abilities). I still think some kind of woolly comparison between classes as to which would be better in combat situations is kind of silly (and you did make an argument there regarding soldiers). In ME shooting is a only a small part of the combat. 

CDRSkyShepard wrote...



In regards to what I bolded: players definitely choose their own strategies. They also choose the class based on their personal strategy because the classes are suited to certain strategies. This is especially true of new players. When I first started playing Mass Effect, I chose the Infiltrator because I wasn't comfortable with enemies getting close to me, so using a class that was designed to be long-range sounded like a good idea. After I did my first playthrough of ME1 and ME2, everyone recommended I try the Vanguard next, so I tried it...and I got my butt kicked. Now that I'm more experienced, I'm better at it and really enjoy it. Still, my personal preference for strategy is to keep my enemies from getting close (even take pride in not letting them get close and getting in headshots), flanking enemies, and wearing their defenses down with tech attacks, thus my preferred class is Infiltrator.

That make any sense at all? Trying to post and doing 中文 (Chinese) homework simultaneouly makes my head explode sometimes. XD

(Edit for grammar)

Yes classes come with a gameplay perspective in mind, but that is a Doylist analysis. You cannot really then take that on-board and apply that in a Watsonian sense. I mean you can but to me the gameplay sense is so much more important than the gameworld sense that it makes class comparisons meaningless without talking about the player controlling them. I mean think about the arbitrary limitations imposed on the classes- is there any reason a trained N7 operative on any class can't use any weapon? Especially a bread-and-butter military weapon like an assault rifle? Nope there is no sense in that inside the gameworld. It only make sense as a balance issue from a gameplay perspective. 

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

SykoWolf wrote...

Maybe, but your forgetting that sprinting at the enemy with a shotgun in hand is soooo 1st every century bc ever

Fixed for you.

[SykoWolf]

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...

SykoWolf wrote...

Maybe, but your forgetting that sprinting at the enemy with a shotgun in hand is soooo 1st every century bc ever

Fixed for you.

Wow......good grammer.....every century ever? Did you get brain damage from charging into a squad of cerberus soldiers or something?....lol

[SykoWolf]

Zeju wrote...

SykoWolf wrote...

Zeju never mentioned the soldiers but seriously I have more respect for infiltrators anf vanguards then any other class (except soldiers)

Soldier's are extremely fun to play, they have the rarest weapon selection, they're the only class that can weild both the Geth Pulse Rifle and the Widow!

I have respect for every class. Each one is deadly in its own way. But Engineers is probably the one I hate to fight, that roaming battle droid pisses me off when im in cover and trying to snipe - that said, an Engy makes a good ally for opposite reasons.

I HATE BATTLE DROIDS, they have a way of making me Syko cause whenever I get in cover, those f ing droids come round the back of me and attack me!!! Grrrrrrr

[CDRSkyShepard]

@ HolyAvenger - Oh, you, all makin' sense and stuff again. XD

Okay, I better boot up ME1 again and look...but I could swear I've never seen an option to train my Infiltrator on shotgun as a bonus ability. I've played her through several times, too...

I definitely see your point, no question there. Doesn't change the fact that I use what I know to help me plan my strategies out in the game, and what I do varies quite a bit depending on what class I'm playing.

Maybe it's just my personal preference not to play a sniper Vanguard that colors my impressions: if I'm attacking at long range, I tend to stay there unless I screw up and someone gets too close. When I play as a Vanguard, I go medium range or closer. I find that if I try to change the range I'm playing at, it changes the dynamic of the battlefield drastically enough I don't like it. I'm a control freak on the battlefield: I like to keep things consistent, so if I'm sniping, I want to stay at long range vs. sniping then Charging in for the kill. I just find the latter more inefficient, and thus less tactically advantageous. Not to say it isn't a valid strategy, it's just not how I roll. So, in summary, I personally find certain tactics work better with certain classes than others. Therein comes the "player strategy" debate, ah-ha....you may have me there. You may just. I'm going to have to think about it for a bit...

As far as arbitrary class limitations, I don't think they're that far-fetched. In the real military, everyone is trained on the M9, and the infantry guys are all trained on the M4 (I believe the Marines still opt for the M16, though). I can't speak for our Special Forces guys, but I'm pretty sure they get at least basic training for everything you can shoot. As far as specializations and using said weapons to their full potential, however, you have to be trained specifically for that weapon, and I don't think everyone undergoes that kind of training for every weapon. (i.e., you aren't trained on sniper rifles unless you're trained to actually be a sniper) I'd imagine a "real N7 operative" would be trained similarly to someone in today's Special Forces, so no, I don't think they'd be able to be a super soldier and wield every weapon class effectively. So, it would be like in ME1, where you can carry and shoot all the weapons classes, but only have specific training in a few, making you better with those weapons. I can also tell you from experience it takes enough time to train up on one weapon class, let alone several, and that's just up against paper targets. (And we won't even get into the topic of different guns/calibers/etc...for example, I hate the Baretta M9 with an unyielding passion because its firing characteristics aren't as nice as my Sig's.) This particular topic, however, is a different topic for a different thread. XD

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 31 janvier 2012 - 05:52 .

[HolyAvenger]

You need to have unlocked the shotgun in 1 first of course. Then its available like any other bonus power.

I'm not saying that every class should have access to every weapon. I'm saying that the way the weapons are restricted don't make sense inside the gameworld. Why can I have an N7 infiltrator who prefers to cloak and shotgun right from the start? Or an adept who has used assault rifles all their lives? Limit every class bar soldiers to 2 weapons, fine, but allow the player to select said weapons (as is the case in 3 I believe).

Anyway, I've made my point(s).

[SykoWolf]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

@ HolyAvenger - Oh, you, all makin' sense and stuff again. XD

As far as arbitrary class limitations, I don't think they're that far-fetched. In the real military, everyone is trained on the M9, and the infantry guys are all trained on the M4 (I believe the Marines still opt for the M16, though). I can't speak for our Special Forces guys, but I'm pretty sure they get at least basic training for everything you can shoot. As far as specializations and using said weapons to their full potential, however, you have to be trained specifically for that weapon, and I don't think everyone undergoes that kind of training for every weapon. (i.e., you aren't trained on sniper rifles unless you're trained to actually be a sniper) I'd imagine a "real N7 operative" would be trained similarly to someone in today's Special Forces, so no, I don't think they'd be able to be a super soldier and wield every weapon class effectively. So, it would be like in ME1, where you can carry and shoot all the weapons classes, but only have specific training in a few, making you better with those weapons. I can also tell you from experience it takes enough time to train up on one weapon class, let alone several, and that's just up against paper targets. (And we won't even get into the topic of different guns/calibers/etc...for example, I hate the Baretta M9 with an unyielding passion because its firing characteristics aren't as nice as my Sig's.) This particular topic, however, is a different topic for a different thread. XD

Well I'm australian, we come out of the womb as N7 elites, and that cry you hear, is a battle cry......we also have kangaroos.......now back on topic, I can say I agree with you about everything you said above.