429 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

Unpack this a little, please. What exactly would any possible Shepard hope to gain from doing these sidequests? In the Helena Blake case, the answer is obvious -- credits.

I completely disagree.  The only thing Shepard can actually get from helping Helena Blake is credits, but he doesn't know that.  He might be trying to acquire an ally on whom he can later rely.  That the option to call upon allies later doesn't exist isn't relevant.

I don't mind giving Shepard stupid choices to make. What I do mind is that Bio won't actually have consequences for the stupidity. If I can't have both, I don't want either. Put a real clock in ME1 and I'm fine with sidequests conceptually, though we would still have a resource allocation issue.

So I guess we're both looking for a role-playing environment, but you're looking for choices and I'm looking for consequences.

I don't understand the demand for consequences.  There are consequences.  Whatever your choices, future events take place.  Shepard can't know that the consequences are always the same, because Shepard only exists in one reality at a time.

Two separate issues. If Styx Theta had been in the game from the start, there still would have been no rational reason to go there.

But if every location that exists is one you are given a reason to visit, doesn't that make the world feel narrow?  Where's the vastness of space?  Where's the rest of the world happening around you that has nothing at all to do with your mission?  You're asking for a plot on rails, and I don't want that.

[Rudy Lis]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I don't understand the demand for consequences.  There are consequences.  Whatever your choices, future events take place.  Shepard can't know that the consequences are always the same, because Shepard only exists in one reality at a time.

I think he wants serious consequences, something you can feel, not that "commander shepard, I though you died, you probably don't remember me, you've doen that and that, so now my sorry butt is here thank you/damn you". Existing consequences reminds me of just spitting upwind.

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Unpack this a little, please. What exactly would any possible Shepard hope to gain from doing these sidequests? In the Helena Blake case, the answer is obvious -- credits.

I completely disagree.  The only thing Shepard can actually get from helping Helena Blake is credits, but he doesn't know that.  He might be trying to acquire an ally on whom he can later rely.  That the option to call upon allies later doesn't exist isn't relevant.

Rely on how? For what? 

I don't mind giving Shepard stupid choices to make. What I do mind is that Bio won't actually have consequences for the stupidity. If I can't have both, I don't want either. Put a real clock in ME1 and I'm fine with sidequests conceptually, though we would still have a resource allocation issue.

So I guess we're both looking for a role-playing environment, but you're looking for choices and I'm looking for consequences.

I don't understand the demand for consequences.  There are consequences.  Whatever your choices, future events take place.  Shepard can't know that the consequences are always the same, because Shepard only exists in one reality at a time.

This is mostly for the early playthroughs, when I don't know what will happen. If I know that Bioware is adopting a consequence-free design, then I can't evaluate decision points honestly. The choice goes from "should Shepard take this chance" to "do I want to play a stupid Shepard and experience more content, or a smart Shepard and pass the content up." Edit: although in the case of some sidequests a "badly mistaken" Shepard would do.

In later playthroughs such metagaming can't be avoided, of course.

But if every location that exists is one you are given a reason to visit, doesn't that make the world feel narrow?  Where's the vastness of space?  Where's the rest of the world happening around you that has nothing at all to do with your mission?

The vastness of space is outside the window, where it belongs. I didn't have any problem believing in the size of the KotOR universe.

  You're asking for a plot on rails, and I don't want that. 

No. What I'm after is for Bio to honor the plot that they already have chosen. If you're going to bill something as a "race against time," then deliver a race against time. If they want to set up a plot so that there isn't any urgency, that's completely different.

Modifié par AlanC9, 31 janvier 2012 - 06:38 .

[Tragoudistros]

I really liked the difference the powers made in ME2. I look forward to the more detailed customation of the powers in ME3. Getting to choose the evolutions was incredibly fun, making My Shepard MY Shepard (hehe dorky heart but I did like my character). I played ME2 first then ME1 after. Leveling up is more fun when you can see the differences in your characters abilities. I was an Infiltrator in both, and ME1 was kind of dissapointing BUT it was still a good game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Unpack this a little, please. What exactly would any possible Shepard hope to gain from doing these sidequests? In the Helena Blake case, the answer is obvious -- credits.

I completely disagree.  The only thing Shepard can actually get from helping Helena Blake is credits, but he doesn't know that.  He might be trying to acquire an ally on whom he can later rely.  That the option to call upon allies later doesn't exist isn't relevant.

Rely on how? For what?

No matter what you want to achieve in the future, knowing the Shadow Broker is better than not knowing the Shadow Broker.  Having good relationships with a wide variety of people across the galaxy gives you more potential avenues for success in virtually everything.  You never know when it might come in handy to know a crime syndicate, or have an Admiral owe you a favour, or be able to blackmail a council member.  Each chit you assemble as part of your arsenal is an asset, regardless of whether you can yet see how each specifically will be useful.

This is mostly for the early playthroughs, when I don't know what will happen. If I know that Bioware is adopting a consequence-free design, then I can't evaluate decision points honestly. The choice goes from "should Shepard take this chance" to "do I want to play a stupid Shepard and experience more content, or a smart Shepard and pass the content up." Edit: although in the case of some sidequests a "badly mistaken" Shepard would do.

In later playthroughs such metagaming can't be avoided, of course.

Metagaming can always be avoided.  Simply don't consider your knowledge of BioWare's design when making in-character decisions.

The vastness of space is outside the window, where it belongs. I didn't have any problem believing in the size of the KotOR universe.

KotOR was a much shorter game; you had less time to think about it.  I also expect the richness of the extant Star Wars lore helped with that.

That said, I found KotOR needlessly narrow in scope, particularly after the twist was revealed.