1229 réponses à ce sujet

[Hedera]

What I don't get is why the entire idea of good-looking squadmates is being torn to shreds here. What would it take to make everyone here happy? A squad made up of Vorcha, Krogan, and Batarians? Oh yeah, and a horribly disfigured human who grouches his way through missions. Unless that's pandering to the human crowd. God, who do these people think they are loving humans? Just think! The only romanceable squadmate could be a Batarian! Then we wouldn't have 'pandering' and 'sexiness'.

I can agree that their character designs are a bit... sexualized, but the alternative being the generic retex armors from ME1? I'm happier now. Oh, and yes, this is a straw man. I'm just a little peeved that every single bit of news we get is met with "BUT THIS ISN'T WHAT I WANTED BIOWARE"

[nitefyre410]

Hyrist wrote...



You're assuming EDI has no character development in the realm of sexuality.

EDI learned anthromorphism to an extend in becomming the Normady, now that she gets a body, one that can be consitered attractive, the subject of sexuality, and how an AI handles this possibility, and vise versa for joker.

 

While I agree your and see your point... and find it that whole aspect rather interest.. you and I both know that most are not going to look it like that. 

Because if  were talking about an AI being more  human one of the things that does make us  human is our sexual nature...

 and I know i just pissed a whole lot of people off by saying that...


TDB . 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:44 .

[Shifty-looking Chicken]

Saphra, I thought you hated Legion. Why do you seem to want him back so much?

[PrinceLionheart]

Subject Alpha wrote...

Support Edi?
No. Not after this whole.. "romance" debacle -.-

What do you mean? Is Edi a Romance option too?

[100k]

cgrimm54 wrote...

What I don't get is why the entire idea of good-looking squadmates is being torn to shreds here. What would it take to make everyone here happy? A squad made up of Vorcha, Krogan, and Batarians? Oh yeah, and a horribly disfigured human who grouches his way through missions. Unless that's pandering to the human crowd. God, who do these people think they are loving humans? Just think! The only romanceable squadmate could be a Batarian! Then we wouldn't have 'pandering' and 'sexiness'.

I can agree that their character designs are a bit... sexualized, but the alternative being the generic retex armors from ME1? I'm happier now. Oh, and yes, this is a straw man. I'm just a little peeved that every single bit of news we get is met with "BUT THIS ISN'T WHAT I WANTED BIOWARE"

I personally ain't bashing EDI for being good-looking, but I really just dislike the idea of our ship's AI getting a physical body. 

We had, what, 12 members to choose from in ME2? Why can't one of those characters come back to fulfill a role as squadmate in ME3? 

Oh, all the squadmates can die in ME2? Well, why not design a system where the loss of one squadmate means the application of a surviving squadmate?

Oh, you killed your entire squad in ME2? Well, why not design another three new squadmates?

Sheesh.

[Ryzaki]

Shifty-looking Chicken wrote...

Saphra, I thought you hated Legion. Why do you seem to want him back so much?

Probably a case of the leser evil.

And EDI is not necessary as a squaddie. It would not have been impossible (since they're already wasting resources with the JokerxEDI ship and the you're a person EDI tripe.) to make another squadmember instead.

Frankly I would've preferred a Batarian. They could've used far more fleshing out as a race.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:46 .

[TMA LIVE]

This whole thing really reminds me too much of the whole Andromeda thing, and that robot in Jason X.

[PrinceLionheart]

Darth Asriel wrote...

EDI getting a body and romancing Joker is childish pandering at best and clichè fanfiction at worst. Bioware should be above this. EDI was the Normandy, that was her body. Now she's a squaddie? If we needed a tech squaddie so bad why not Tali(in the game), Mordin, or Legion? Yes, they could have died, but you can go back and replay it so they don't.

And as for her "romance" with Joker it's just weird. Why does he need a sexbot? Joker has never been portrayed as socially awkward or lacking in confidence. His VS would not prevent him from getting a girl. Hell, Kelly had a thing for everything with 2 legs on the ship. I'm sure he could tap that.

TBH, it's no worse then Garrus and Tali being upgraded to LIs after the fans demanded so much.

[HolyJellyfish]

Hyrist wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...

You don't know that. They could just as easily design a male robot with a body very similar to a human form that could be "sexy" i.e. very attractive.

As far as ME's design trends go, its pretty much a guarantee that EDI would probably not have a sexy attractive sleak might-as-well-be-a-naked-man dipped in chrome paint with a bulge, leaving no room to the imagination. Oh, and Fabio Hair. Because having a humanoid AI /needs/ to have hair.

I mean, look at the designs for all the squadmates.

Sexxay females:
Liara, Tali's(hips?), Ashley, Jack, Samara/Morinth, Miranda

Sexxay Men:
Jacob, Kaiden

Its very unbalanced.

I just wish there was a woman on the writing staff for ME. Deus Ex: Human Revolution's designer even stated he had to key back some of what he considered crazy sexiness because the lead writer was a woman, and it put him in a different position. I feel like ME is sort of dealing with the same thing. Especially with EDI's direction.

This may have less to do with a woman on the writing staff and more to do with the fact that ME players are buy in lage male dominant.

Not true. Deus Ex: Human Machina, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age: Origins,The Uncharted Series... All these AMAZING FANTASTIC games where most players are 'male dominant' feature very strong female characters and there is an obvious balance. They are sexy, yeah. But its not limited to their asses and how naked they look. Their personalities are incredibly strong and powerful.

It can be an added challenge to designers, who can't just sexify these characters specifically written to be very powerful and sexy with or without the sexy looks by women who are on the writing team.

It creates an awkward dialogue between both staff circles.

And, I quote from a blog post about a panel -

Mary DeMarle shaped the story in a way that created strong primary
female characters, which makes for different themes.  He acknowledge
that I was “kinda right,” in that there is a difference in the approach
to design between main characters versus characters he termed “cannon
fodder.” He also noted that it is “such a cliche of our industry that
women have big boobs” so most of his teams draw women with smaller
chests – so much so the designers requested a big breasted character.
But he ultimately agreed, “we broke the [usual character] mold a little
bit because of the women in the lead.”
source

And here is another fantastic conference about the issues of game design, diversity, and audience.
Games of Color

If you have more developers that aren't by majority white straight men, game design changes. For the best, since it doesn't take obvious design choices.

Skyrim is a beautiful example. So is Uncharged. Deus Ex. Hell, even Portal. Larger teams with a variety of people working together takes away the obvious choices (Like a SEXXXAAAY AI Fembot!) and tries something ENTIRELY new (Like a freaking force of scary nature. Such as GLaDOS)

[spirosz]

TMA LIVE wrote...

This whole thing really reminds me too much of the whole Andromeda thing, and that robot in Jason X.

Don't mention Jason X, lmao. 

[DiebytheSword]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Umm... how?

EDI has a more personal, relatable platform now.  While it doesn't change the fact that the debate should have happened in ME2 (something you yourself point out concering the Geth and Quarians).  It will bring it to the forefront and give us another chance to talk about it (which I sincerely hope we get to address properly in ME3).

If you don't believe so, fine, then we agree to disagree once again. 

Saphra Deden wrote...
It's a little late for that discussion seeing as it has already been done.

It's not the right kind of discussion either.

I'm not going to debate this on philosophical grounds beyond the fact that I think it is atrocious how much worse ME3 has gotten with the blatant appeals to sex appeal.

A discussion about whether or not it should be in the game?  You misunderstand where I'm coming from then.  I'm talking about in game, the developer telling us a story that make us think.  What would happen if we created a sentient program that then aquired a body for itself?  That is a compelling question whether or not its dressed up in a racy body.  That's the discussion I was talking about, not whether or not it should have happened.  As you quite correctly point out, there is no point to that conversation: it has happened whether we are okay with it or not.

You are defining EDI by her sexbot body, she's still a character under that.  So long as we don't have constant references to her sexuality, then it really hasn't ruined the character, that's just so much hyperbole.  So who's being shallow here?  People who can't take her seriously because of how she was designed by the graphics department or people who are still interested in the quandries presented by EDI's existence period?

But its clear you aren't interested in talking to me about it, so that's that.  Have fun Saphra.

Modifié par DiebytheSword, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:49 .

[Ryzaki]

Hello Man wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

This whole thing really reminds me too much of the whole Andromeda thing, and that robot in Jason X.

And see I'm cool with that. Romance between two synthetics is like what, sharing data?

And EDI already let Legion past her firewalls.

EDIxLegion for ME3! <3

[Darth Asriel]

@Hello Man- I agree the argument of what it means to be human is interesting. but couldn't we explore that wig Legion? He was already different from most Geth. He showed a form of hero worship for Shepard. You could tell a great story of his developing personality. Heck you could stl use EDI to tell this story. But did she need a body in order for BW to do it?

[1136342t54_]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Darth Asriel wrote...

EDI getting a body and romancing Joker is childish pandering at best and clichè fanfiction at worst. Bioware should be above this. EDI was the Normandy, that was her body. Now she's a squaddie? If we needed a tech squaddie so bad why not Tali(in the game), Mordin, or Legion? Yes, they could have died, but you can go back and replay it so they don't.

And as for her "romance" with Joker it's just weird. Why does he need a sexbot? Joker has never been portrayed as socially awkward or lacking in confidence. His VS would not prevent him from getting a girl. Hell, Kelly had a thing for everything with 2 legs on the ship. I'm sure he could tap that.

TBH, it's no worse then Garrus and Tali being upgraded to LIs after the fans demanded so much.

That was the definition of pandering. Even the devs sad they never thought that Garrus and Tali would be received so well that people would want them to be LIs. 

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hello Man wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

This whole thing really reminds me too much of the whole Andromeda thing, and that robot in Jason X.

And see I'm cool with that. Romance between two synthetics is like what, sharing data?

And EDI already let Legion past her firewalls.

EDIxLegion for ME3! <3

Yeah after like over a million previous attempts. Legion really tries too hard. 

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Darth Asriel wrote...

EDI getting a body and romancing Joker is childish pandering at best and clichè fanfiction at worst. Bioware should be above this. EDI was the Normandy, that was her body. Now she's a squaddie? If we needed a tech squaddie so bad why not Tali(in the game), Mordin, or Legion? Yes, they could have died, but you can go back and replay it so they don't.

And as for her "romance" with Joker it's just weird. Why does he need a sexbot? Joker has never been portrayed as socially awkward or lacking in confidence. His VS would not prevent him from getting a girl. Hell, Kelly had a thing for everything with 2 legs on the ship. I'm sure he could tap that.

TBH, it's no worse then Garrus and Tali being upgraded to LIs after the fans demanded so much.

That was the definition of pandering. Even the devs sad they never thought that Garrus and Tali would be received so well that people would want them to be LIs. 

yeah Garrus/Talimance were straight up pandering.

1136342t54 wrote...
Yeah after like over a million previous attempts. Legion really tries too hard. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]

It's not Legion's fault he's easily excitable

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:50 .

[TMA LIVE]

Hello Man wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

This whole thing really reminds me too much of the whole Andromeda thing, and that robot in Jason X.

And see I'm cool with that. Romance between two synthetics is like what, sharing data?

Well, I have a problem with it feeling like they just stole a concept, instead of doing something different.

Anyways, as for the romance between them, no surprise. I knew where they were going since ME2, so I have no problems with nerd making love to his computer. If you didn't see that one coming, either you haven't seen enough sci-fi as I have, or You were in denial. Though the robot body thing surprises me.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:52 .

[Shifty-looking Chicken]

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Darth Asriel wrote...

EDI getting a body and romancing Joker is childish pandering at best and clichè fanfiction at worst. Bioware should be above this. EDI was the Normandy, that was her body. Now she's a squaddie? If we needed a tech squaddie so bad why not Tali(in the game), Mordin, or Legion? Yes, they could have died, but you can go back and replay it so they don't.

And as for her "romance" with Joker it's just weird. Why does he need a sexbot? Joker has never been portrayed as socially awkward or lacking in confidence. His VS would not prevent him from getting a girl. Hell, Kelly had a thing for everything with 2 legs on the ship. I'm sure he could tap that.

TBH, it's no worse then Garrus and Tali being upgraded to LIs after the fans demanded so much.

That was the definition of pandering. Even the devs sad they never thought that Garrus and Tali would be received so well that people would want them to be LIs. 

yeah Garrus/Talimance were straight up pandering.

Does it matter whether they were or not? If the devs didn't listen to fan feedback, we'd still be driving the Mako.