1229 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Shifty-looking Chicken wrote...

Actually, you can lose Legion's loyalty, so he wouldn't be as much of a fanatic as Liara, who likes Shepard no matter what you do.

True enough.

I can't make little Legion disloyal though. It's painful inside when I do that D: 

[Brownfinger]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

You people are way too uptight.

How is giving her a feminine form turning her into a sex object? She's no more of a sex object than a young woman behind the counter at Starbucks. The content of her actions and character are what define her. Where others see something intended to incite lust, I simply see femininity. I don't have a problem with that, we've been ascribing human traits to try and humanize our robotic companions in science fiction for a very long time. Autobots have noses. Do they need noses? Hell, no.

Now, if in the leaked script, she pretends to drop a data pad and then bends over to pick it up in front of Joker, the detractors have a point. I haven't read it, so I don't know. If they've completely overhauled her personality, then I'll gladly concede the point.
Do they? Are there any non spoilery lines from the script that give an insight into this?

There are several ambiance lines, and even a few male characters who talk more about EDI's hot distracting bod than they do about the fact that the OMG NORMANDY AI is MOVING AROUND IN A HUMAN BODY.

Aww. Okay, well that sucks. Still, as you've said, they're ambiance. So maybe it's not a focal point? If it's being thrown in my face like a Miranda ass shot, then yeah. I'll be disappointed, in that case. For me, it would be unnerving just to see the Normandy AI out and about, moreso than her curviness.

What's this about Legion being a weepy teen vampire, now? I may need to bow out, lest I expose myself to unwanted spoilers.

[Ryzaki]

It's just a joke.

Legion in a hot human male body though would at least make me laugh. If only for the sheer "...wat." reaction he would garner from everyone. (There would be less ogling and more WTFness which really should be the case with EDI).

[Hyrist]

HolyJellyfish wrote...


Imagine if, say, Admiral Hacket was redesigned to look like this.


Would you take him less or more seriously?

Aside from the fact that it's the wrong enthnicity and age? More. He actually looks like the first canidate for human specters.

Sorry you can't see beyond someone's attraciveness.

Why is it when people are pretty that the first things that come to their mind is "****!, Sexual Exploit! Must Hate!" Or "He he he, boobies, MMM, That Jacob!" Etc?

The fact that Bioware makes the cat-calls from the crew actually is litterary genius, it brings that issue to light. You're going to possible disagree, or get annoied, or even agree, depending on your viewpoint of the whole deal. But no matter what, having that issue brought forward forces you to formulate an opinion on it.

HolyJellyfish wrote...



I don't believe that is the issue.

The issue is HOW she has been designed. I don't care if you are a dude or a chick playing this game, its very difficult to take a complex and fascinating character like EDI seriously when she looks like she is a naked woman dipped in chrome.

 

Then it should be consitered Challenge Accepted, no?

And most importantly, you should be consitered challenged to look beyond the whole "OMG IT's a sexual exploit" stick in the mud you seem to enjoy stirring.

WTF? Why does one of the most powerful AI units in the Mass Effect universe have to be whittled down to 'OMG BOOBZ! YOGA PERFORMANCE! JOKER HARD ON!'?!

First off, you're looking at a leaked script on the internet. You can never know it's origonal or what lines are actually being put to use, or even if it changed. Second, you're taking the 'omg she's hawt' lines far too seriously. The cat calls, they're coming form non-important characters, who probably won't be even an afterthought to the goings on.

I'm sorry your feminism keeps you from seeing beyond the easiest available drama and the next available argument for you to pander around about the exploitation of your sex. But my origonal point stands. This would not be an issue if people would stop being so dramaticlly overblown about sexuality in general, on both sides of the debate.

You've no clue, even in the least, about EDI's importance in the game, you're making an assumption based off of an unreliable source and a picture. (And Yes, I've read the script. It's heavily fragmented.) 

Calling the issue unorigonal is calling Mass Effect in general unorigonal. The entire script and premise is borrowed from other Science Fiction and Future Fantacy IPs. The -entire- concept. It's supposed to be a derivitive game. Again, I state suspension of disbelief is a key factor in enjoying any work of fiction.

If yours is broken because you can't get over that an android body created for infilitration might ACTUALLY be attractive, then goodbye. You don't need to buy the game, you don't need to see how it ends. These are impulses you chose to obey, just like you chose to obey speaking out on an issue that has long since overplayed it's argumentative importance.

We get it, all female characters of 'substance' should be ugly. No male progagonist should be guff looking and strong willed, or sensitive, or happy, and definatly not have strange haircuts.

I've heard all these arguments ad naseum.

But it's not going to change anything. Males still dominate the core gamerbase and it will likely be a very, very long time before female representation in the field becomes more or less equal. This is in part because interest in the field is not equal between genders. Worse than this is the generalized ideals of human asthetics. Muscular, chizzeled men, shapely, lithe women - these actually exist in the hands of female writers as well and they're just as nauseating (Proving it in one word:Twilight). 

Any progress is going to be done in a painstakingly gradual manner and expecting results every time you make a comment about it is foolhearty at best. This isn't something that's going to change untill we as humans do (Cyceling back to my origonal argument that this is a human nature problem). And Bioware has done a good job to show that, guess what? Even two hundred years in the future, we're still the same. 

If it's not worth not getting the game over, then for your sake, get over it and comment on the issue when the game actually comes out. And remember, the best part about the game is how YOU get to react to situations as they go on. If the whole sexualization of EDI disgusts you, act disgusted in the game. But don't get hung up over it here, it's pointless.

[Shifty-looking Chicken]

Ryzaki wrote...

Shifty-looking Chicken wrote...

Actually, you can lose Legion's loyalty, so he wouldn't be as much of a fanatic as Liara, who likes Shepard no matter what you do.

True enough.

I can't make little Legion disloyal though. It's painful inside when I do that D: 

Thankfully, I've never had to pick a side myself. The magic blue/red button has always been available to me.

Same with the Miranda/Jack argument, although admittedly I wouldn't mind losing Miranda's loyalty near as much as I would Legion's.

Modifié par Shifty-looking Chicken, 28 janvier 2012 - 07:31 .

[Someone With Mass]

Ryzaki wrote...

...and if it's possible she's capable of sex. Judging from what Mordin said it's possible. "Positioning critical to success. Can forward EDI charts, videos with relevant data"

So what exactly was your point? 

Well, that doesn't confirm much, since the "positioning critical to sucess" part kind of implies that they could do anything as long as the position is right.

And really, if we're calling EDI a sex-bot because of that, then Legion is one as well, since you can make things work with him too if the position is right.

Not to mention that Legion has more of a hole than EDI.

[tomorrowstation]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

I take direct issue to the wording of her description, but her design itself is pretty damn tame after some of the things I've seen in ME2. And even ME1.

I don't know. At least all the ladies in those games were covered. She just looks like she was dipped in chrome paint with pasties.

Heck. She even has a 'belly button'.

What robot has a belly button?

Well she is of Alliance design, so she is bound to adhere to some Navel regulations.

[Ryzaki]

Someone With Mass wrote..
Well, that doesn't confirm much, since the "positioning critical to sucess" part kind of implies that they could do anything as long as the position is right.

And really, if we're calling EDI a sex-bot because of that, then Legion is one as well, since you can make things work with him too if the position is right.

Not to mention that Legion has more of a hole than EDI.

You just said he was asking about sex. Why would Mordin bring up something totally unrelated?

Legion wasn't designed by humans to look as much like them and be an infiltration unit. Yes he was designed to interact with organics but not to blend among them seamlessly. And I where did I call EDI a sex bot? I was getting at her being capable of sex and since she was designed that way it was probably used for infiltration purposes. I'm pretty sure charts and videos wouldn't be needed if all Joker was going to do would be...you know where I'm going with this.

And? It's in the middle of his chest and showcases a bunch of wires!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 janvier 2012 - 07:39 .

[Hyrist]

@Holyjellyfishe's comment about EDI's body.
lol.

Also, you're completely over-blowing the design of the character out of proportion.

I mean, if you want to see a picture of a woman wearing nothing but chrome paint and pastes. I'm sure I can find one for you to compare.

Modifié par Hyrist, 28 janvier 2012 - 07:46 .

[OmegaBlue0231]

Hyrist wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...


Imagine if, say, Admiral Hacket was redesigned to look like this.


Would you take him less or more seriously?

Aside from the fact that it's the wrong enthnicity and age? More. He actually looks like the first canidate for human specters.

Sorry you can't see beyond someone's attraciveness.

Why is it when people are pretty that the first things that come to their mind is "****!, Sexual Exploit! Must Hate!" Or "He he he, boobies, MMM, That Jacob!" Etc?

The fact that Bioware makes the cat-calls from the crew actually is litterary genius, it brings that issue to light. You're going to possible disagree, or get annoied, or even agree, depending on your viewpoint of the whole deal. But no matter what, having that issue brought forward forces you to formulate an opinion on it.

HolyJellyfish wrote...



I don't believe that is the issue.

The issue is HOW she has been designed. I don't care if you are a dude or a chick playing this game, its very difficult to take a complex and fascinating character like EDI seriously when she looks like she is a naked woman dipped in chrome.

 

Then it should be consitered Challenge Accepted, no?

And most importantly, you should be consitered challenged to look beyond the whole "OMG IT's a sexual exploit" stick in the mud you seem to enjoy stirring.

WTF? Why does one of the most powerful AI units in the Mass Effect universe have to be whittled down to 'OMG BOOBZ! YOGA PERFORMANCE! JOKER HARD ON!'?!

First off, you're looking at a leaked script on the internet. You can never know it's origonal or what lines are actually being put to use, or even if it changed. Second, you're taking the 'omg she's hawt' lines far too seriously. The cat calls, they're coming form non-important characters, who probably won't be even an afterthought to the goings on.

I'm sorry your feminism keeps you from seeing beyond the easiest available drama and the next available argument for you to pander around about the exploitation of your sex. But my origonal point stands. This would not be an issue if people would stop being so dramaticlly overblown about sexuality in general, on both sides of the debate.

You've no clue, even in the least, about EDI's importance in the game, you're making an assumption based off of an unreliable source and a picture. (And Yes, I've read the script. It's heavily fragmented.) 

Calling the issue unorigonal is calling Mass Effect in general unorigonal. The entire script and premise is borrowed from other Science Fiction and Future Fantacy IPs. The -entire- concept. It's supposed to be a derivitive game. Again, I state suspension of disbelief is a key factor in enjoying any work of fiction.

If yours is broken because you can't get over that an android body created for infilitration might ACTUALLY be attractive, then goodbye. You don't need to buy the game, you don't need to see how it ends. These are impulses you chose to obey, just like you chose to obey speaking out on an issue that has long since overplayed it's argumentative importance.

We get it, all female characters of 'substance' should be ugly. No male progagonist should be guff looking and strong willed, or sensitive, or happy, and definatly not have strange haircuts.

I've heard all these arguments ad naseum.

But it's not going to change anything. Males still dominate the core gamerbase and it will likely be a very, very long time before female representation in the field becomes more or less equal. This is in part because interest in the field is not equal between genders. Worse than this is the generalized ideals of human asthetics. Muscular, chizzeled men, shapely, lithe women - these actually exist in the hands of female writers as well and they're just as nauseating (Proving it in one word:Twilight). 

Any progress is going to be done in a painstakingly gradual manner and expecting results every time you make a comment about it is foolhearty at best. This isn't something that's going to change untill we as humans do (Cyceling back to my origonal argument that this is a human nature problem). And Bioware has done a good job to show that, guess what? Even two hundred years in the future, we're still the same. 

If it's not worth not getting the game over, then for your sake, get over it and comment on the issue when the game actually comes out. And remember, the best part about the game is how YOU get to react to situations as they go on. If the whole sexualization of EDI disgusts you, act disgusted in the game. But don't get hung up over it here, it's pointless.

So true.

*EDIT* removed the last part because it's beating a dead horse.

Modifié par OmegaBlue0231, 28 janvier 2012 - 07:45 .

[Ryzaki]

Hyrist wrote...

lol.

Also, you're completely over-blowing the design of the character out of proportion.

I mean, if you want to see a picture of a woman wearing nothing but chrome paint and pastes. I'm sure I can find one for you to compare.

Thankfully I don't give a damn what you think.

[Hyrist]

That's good Ryzaki, cause you weren't the individual I was responding to, honestly. Did you mention something about EDI looking like a naked woman dipped in chrome paint and wearing pasties?

No?

Then the post wasn't directed at you.

[Ryzaki]

Hyrist wrote...

That's good Ryzaki, cause you weren't the individual I was responding to, honestly. Did you mention something about EDI looking like a naked woman dipped in chrome paint and wearing pasties?

No?

Then the post wasn't directed at you.

Then maybe you should do the hard and difficult for you I'm sure act of you know mentioning who you're responding too instead of typing out a post right under someone else like we're supposed to magically know the comment wasn't directed towards them. Since I was debating the design of EDI.

You know since that's apparently so hard.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 janvier 2012 - 07:43 .

[nightcobra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hyrist wrote...

That's good Ryzaki, cause you weren't the individual I was responding to, honestly. Did you mention something about EDI looking like a naked woman dipped in chrome paint and wearing pasties?

No?

Then the post wasn't directed at you.

Then maybe you should do the hard and difficult for you I'm sure act of you know mentioning who you're responding too instead of typing out a post right under someone else like we're supposed to magically know the comment wasn't directed towards them. Since I was debating the design of EDI.

You know since that's apparently so hard.

now, now...behave or do i have to break you two up?

[Hyrist]

The onus isn't on me to expect that a bystander would react irrationally and emotionally to a comment not directed at them.

The fault would be on you to ask for clarification before sticking your foot in your mouth. That said, I will edit, seeming you asked so nicely.

[Someone With Mass]

If her body's purpose is infiltration, I'd say that it'd be in its favor to stay as far away from intimate encounters as possible, since people can probably tell the difference.

Also, what purpose would that serve? To give the unit a chance to get close to a target? To blend in to get into a certain area? I'd say that its looks is more than enough for that. There's really no need to take it that far.

[Brownfinger]

Before I bow out of this thread, since it *is* a support thread, I wanted to cast my support for EDI as a squad member. She obviously has skills that make her a valuable asset, and she had some really great lines in Mass Effect 2. That bodes well for her expanded role, I think.

Plus, the actress who voices her is smokin' ass hot. Let's be real, here.

[Hyrist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

If her body's purpose is infiltration, I'd say that it'd be in its favor to stay as far away from intimate encounters as possible, since people can probably tell the difference.

Also, what purpose would that serve? To give the unit a chance to get close to a target? To blend in to get into a certain area? I'd say that its looks is more than enough for that. There's really no need to take it that far.

Several reasons to 'Take it that far.'

Seduction is part of infilitration, and there is more to the reasoning than being stated alowed. (I'm not one for sharing spoilers to openly.) 

Aside from convinient writing, cases of public nudity (Dorm showers) are possible, especially in the military colony respect.

TIM probably did not want to leave anything to chance, and that guy is pretty good at going overboard for a project.

[Ryzaki]

Someone With Mass wrote...

If her body's purpose is infiltration, I'd say that it'd be in its favor to stay as far away from intimate encounters as possible, since people can probably tell the difference.

Also, what purpose would that serve? To give the unit a chance to get close to a target? To blend in to get into a certain area? I'd say that its looks is more than enough for that. There's really no need to take it that far.

Seduction is very very useful for assassinations and such.

And where is it said her skin was easily noticed? Plus what Hyrist said. Might need to show off her body to get access to a certain area for a multitude of reasons (plus some creep might just strip her). Need to be able to pass for normal in those scenarios.

Better safe than sorry as they say.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 janvier 2012 - 08:05 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Hyrist wrote...

Sorry you can't see beyond someone's attraciveness.

If you read through any of my comments, you would understand I am attacking sexual objectivity. I am NOT attacking attractive characters.

Jack? Jack is attractive. She is not treated like an object by the game for the male viewing pleasure. Miranda is. Liara isn't. Ashley wasn't (I'm still against her hair down).

All points indicate EDI is.

Why is it when people are pretty that the first things that come to their mind is "****!, Sexual Exploit! Must Hate!" Or "He he he, boobies, MMM, That Jacob!" Etc?

The fact that Bioware makes the cat-calls from the crew actually is litterary genius, it brings that issue to light. You're going to possible disagree, or get annoied, or even agree, depending on your viewpoint of the whole deal. But no matter what, having that issue brought forward forces you to formulate an opinion on it.

No it doesn't. They do it for cheap giggles. Because its the most predictable and obvious thing to do. There is no opinion to formulate except 'Wow, she's hot, and people aren't taking this INDEPENDENT AI IN A FEMMEBOT BODY SERIOUSLY because she's HOT. Aren't moving AIs BAD!? Why aren't more people commenting ON THAT instead of how she's posing!?'

And most importantly, you should be consitered challenged to look beyond the whole "OMG IT's a sexual exploit" stick in the mud you seem to enjoy stirring.

Considered. And I'm offering my point of view as a woman who frequently watches other women in video games turn into sexually exploited objects.

I'm pissed, rightfully so, because one of my favorite female characters from ME2 got the same shallow treatment.

First off, you're looking at a leaked script on the internet. You can never know it's origonal or what lines are actually being put to use, or even if it changed. Second, you're taking the 'omg she's hawt' lines far too seriously. The cat calls, they're coming form non-important characters, who probably won't be even an afterthought to the goings on.

A script that was leaked very recently. I doubt they made any changes between then and now, and if they did, incredibly minor ones. Writing, voice overs, animations take a LOT of work. I know. I work in the industry.

I'm sorry your feminism keeps you from seeing beyond the easiest available drama and the next available argument for you to pander around about the exploitation of your sex. But my origonal point stands. This would not be an issue if people would stop being so dramaticlly overblown about sexuality in general, on both sides of the debate.

That's not even an argument. That's just a cheap shot from someone trying to belittle and insult my opinions and ideas by stripping it down to a core belief I may or may not follow. You've turned what maybe a valuable opinion into a bit of dust you shrug off.

Not just that, but in the same vein, you've also called me over emotional, as if I seek to find drama for the sake of creating it. Further attempting to invalidate my point instead of creating a valuable and thoughtful logical argument that may or may not prove my points wrong.

That's just a cheap shot.

You've no clue, even in the least, about EDI's importance in the game, you're making an assumption based off of an unreliable source and a picture. (And Yes, I've read the script. It's heavily fragmented.) 

Calling the issue unorigonal is calling Mass Effect in general unorigonal. The entire script and premise is borrowed from other Science Fiction and Future Fantacy IPs. The -entire- concept. It's supposed to be a derivitive game. Again, I state suspension of disbelief is a key factor in enjoying any work of fiction.

When most of the writing staff consists of straight white dudes who come up with the same stuff other straight white devs come up with (A hot sexy AI bot is no longer an idea, its a trend that caters), it gets boring.

I like this series. I like Bioware - because, while not perfect, they do push for diversity that is greatly lacking in this industry. That's why I will call the devs on concepts and designs I frankly find insulting and problematic for the future of story telling and game design.

If yours is broken because you can't get over that an android body created for infilitration might ACTUALLY be attractive, then goodbye. You don't need to buy the game, you don't need to see how it ends. These are impulses you chose to obey, just like you chose to obey speaking out on an issue that has long since overplayed it's argumentative importance.

Again. Attractive is not the same as sex object.

And if you want to talk about that, here's this: If this body is meant to be an infiltration unit, then why is it such a goddamn focal point? Isn't the idea of an infiltration unit to blend in? Not be the highlight of the evening?

Why doesn't she wear clothes if she wants to learn human customs? Isn't that part of learning to adapt to culture and society?

Why does her robot figure have to have a 'belly button'? What is the point in that?

If it is revealed EDI chose her figure to taunt and tease and joke with crew members, I'll buy it. I would find that interesting. BUt so far, I haven't read any of that. So far, she is unaware of just how attractive she is, and is.. for all intents and purposes.. an object.

We get it, all female characters of 'substance' should be ugly. No male progagonist should be guff looking and strong willed, or sensitive, or happy, and definatly not have strange haircuts.

Where did I say that? I said I dislike sex objects. Never said I hated sexy hot attractive female characters. I just don't like them when their appearances are more important than their character, or noted as such by surrounding characters.

But it's not going to change anything. Males still dominate the core gamerbase and it will likely be a very, very long time before female representation in the field becomes more or less equal. This is in part because interest in the field is not equal between genders. Worse than this is the generalized ideals of human asthetics. Muscular, chizzeled men, shapely, lithe women - these actually exist in the hands of female writers as well and they're just as nauseating (Proving it in one word:Twilight). 

Wow. Now that's a brash insult, not to mention very misguided.

Have you followed developers? Have you been listening to the conferences and how they REALIZE there is a HUGE problem in the gaming industry insofar as their interests lie? That creating the same stories for the same people is beginning to put the franchise into a predictable clause?

Have you read interviews where Eidos Interactive and Square Enix designers admitted that while creating Deus Ex: HUman Machina female characters, they actually had to key back on certain design choices (ALA: Sexability) because the lead writer was a woman, and such choices would have undermined the writing?

Have you paid attention to the amazing sales of Skyrim, based on universally appealing trends that the game offers - which in part maybe because a lot of women and people of different racial and sexual backgrounds were hired in the making of the game?

Or Uncharted's success, critics hailing the story and characters as amazing successes because a woman writer offered a different perspective compared to most other adventuring games?

Or the DICE 2010 "Games of Color" presentation, where by in large a mathematician fielded data and SHOWED that the core demograph for videogames are NOT Straight White Male - but in fact a broad spectrum of people, such as Latinos, Blacks, Asians, Women, Gays, etc. that are  (for whatever reason) not appropriately represented in Videogame trends? But instead Videogame characters and stories often relay NOT Audience experiences, but GAME DEVELOPER experiences who are 90 percent straight white men?

And that is a problem for developers who want to make more money and open their markets to more people?

This argument of yours does not hold anymore. Its old.

If it's not worth not getting the game over, then for your sake, get over it and comment on the issue when the game actually comes out. And remember, the best part about the game is how YOU get to react to situations as they go on. If the whole sexualization of EDI disgusts you, act disgusted in the game. But don't get hung up over it here, it's pointless.

No. its not.

Its an opinion that is important to me and a lot of other people. The more that is said about it, the more those arguments are heard and become the majority through increased support. ANd the more that point becomes valid.

Thank you.

Modifié par HolyJellyfish, 28 janvier 2012 - 07:55 .

[Someone With Mass]

Hyrist wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

If her body's purpose is infiltration, I'd say that it'd be in its favor to stay as far away from intimate encounters as possible, since people can probably tell the difference.

Also, what purpose would that serve? To give the unit a chance to get close to a target? To blend in to get into a certain area? I'd say that its looks is more than enough for that. There's really no need to take it that far.

Several reasons to 'Take it that far.'

Seduction is part of infilitration, and there is more to the reasoning than being stated alowed. (I'm not one for sharing spoilers to openly.) 

Aside from convinient writing, cases of public nudity (Dorm showers) are possible, especially in the military colony respect.

TIM probably did not want to leave anything to chance, and that guy is pretty good at going overboard for a project.

In that case, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just send in a regular female assassin (something along the lines of Phantom springs to mind) instead of sending in what seems to be a pretty expensive piece of equippment?

[nightcobra]

snip

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 28 janvier 2012 - 08:13 .

[Vapaa]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

It is a little funny. I think I'm more open to the idea because I'm a huge fan of androids. Particularly Data from Star Trek: TNG.

Same, her look is totally a throwback to the classic female robots from back in the day, which were cool!

Indeed ! she's a nice tribute (for lack of better world) to the old works of science-fiction, it's like she came from some Asimov novel.

As for the Joker/EDI "romance" thing, I'll wait and see, maybe it's great, maybe it's a pile of junk, but who knows ? but I'd like to see Joker and EDI beig close to eachother, it can't be worse than Fisto in FNV.

[BatmanPWNS]

I know I said this in the spoiler group but I'll say it again.................. robot ******! LOL, makes me laugh everytime.

[Sgt Stryker]

Someone With Mass wrote...

In that case, wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just send in a regular female assassin (something along the lines of Phantom springs to mind) instead of sending in what seems to be a pretty expensive piece of equippment?

Depends. Maybe the robot assassin is physically stronger and better protected than any living assassin could be?