1229 réponses à ce sujet

[1136342t54_]

BlaznZero wrote...

Hope you can stick her back in the ship.

She is already in the ship but is also controlling her infiltrator body.

[SlottsMachine]

What happens to the ship when/if Edi dies though?

[1136342t54_]

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...

What happens to the ship when/if Edi dies though?

You mean her avatar body? If so then nothing. EDI is technically still in the ship physically.

[SlottsMachine]

What's the difference between this and the relationship between Saren and Sovereign, where Saren's death knocked Sovereign's systems out temporarily at least.

[Ryzaki]

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...

What's the difference between this and the relationship between Saren and Sovereign, where Saren's death knocked Sovereign's systems out temporarily at least.

...and now that you've said that I'm wondering what the difference is too.

Hell why can EDI move herself to a mobile platform without negatives but Sovereign couldn't? That don't make much sense.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...

What's the difference between this and the relationship between Saren and Sovereign, where Saren's death knocked Sovereign's systems out temporarily at least.

...and now that you've said that I'm wondering what the difference is too.

Hell why can EDI move herself to a mobile platform without negatives but Sovereign couldn't? That don't make much sense.

EDI and Sovereign aren't the same at all. A Reaper has the minds of many many organic beings and EDI is an AI that basically operates by using a Quantum Computer. The connection could be very different. Sovereign puts its conscious into another being and the very trauma of dying felt by millions perhaps billions of organics likely stunned it.

EDI is an AI and the connection is likely simply superficial. It uses a Quantum entaglment device to maintain a constant connection to the machine so it can essentially remote control it.

Edit: This is just a theory.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 29 janvier 2012 - 12:25 .

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
EDI and Sovereign aren't the same at all. A Reaper has the minds of many many organic beings and EDI is an AI that basically operates by using a Quantum Computer. The connection could be very different. Sovereign puts its conscious into another being and the very trauma of dying felt by millions perhaps billions of organics likely stunned it.

EDI is an AI and the connection is likely simply superficial. It uses a Quantum entaglment device to maintain a constant connection to the machine so it can essentially remote control it.

Edit: This is just a theory.

And why exactly would Sovereign feel the need to put in all it's minds inside one being when one mind would suffice? (if EDI's any indication). Just seems pretty dumb where I stand.

[Chun Hei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hell why can EDI move herself to a mobile platform without negatives but Sovereign couldn't? That don't make much sense.

It would ruin immersion to have Sovereign as a sexy fem-bot.

[Bekkael]

1136342t54 wrote...

BlaznZero wrote...

Hope you can stick her back in the ship.

She is already in the ship but is also controlling her infiltrator body.

EDI will be the only omnipresent squadmate?

[Ryzaki]

Chun Hei wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Hell why can EDI move herself to a mobile platform without negatives but Sovereign couldn't? That don't make much sense.

It would ruin immersion to have Sovereign as a sexy fem-bot.

They could've made him a male bot.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
EDI and Sovereign aren't the same at all. A Reaper has the minds of many many organic beings and EDI is an AI that basically operates by using a Quantum Computer. The connection could be very different. Sovereign puts its conscious into another being and the very trauma of dying felt by millions perhaps billions of organics likely stunned it.

EDI is an AI and the connection is likely simply superficial. It uses a Quantum entaglment device to maintain a constant connection to the machine so it can essentially remote control it.

Edit: This is just a theory.

And why exactly would Sovereign feel the need to put in all it's minds inside one being when one mind would suffice? (if EDI's any indication). Just seems pretty dumb where I stand.

Probably one doesn't suffice. While each Reaper is a nation it appears that the Reaper still speaks and operate as one. Essentially each singular mind is no longer a individual or at least not in the traditional sense. Its possible that a Reaper has to use all of its minds as a singular entity so it can completely control a avatar like mecha Sovereign. 

Sovereign or any Reaper probably haven't really experienced anything like that and it was a surprise.

Edit: Then again I could be completely wrong and there is some other reason that isn't explained yet. This is just me guessing.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 29 janvier 2012 - 12:33 .

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
EDI and Sovereign aren't the same at all. A Reaper has the minds of many many organic beings and EDI is an AI that basically operates by using a Quantum Computer. The connection could be very different. Sovereign puts its conscious into another being and the very trauma of dying felt by millions perhaps billions of organics likely stunned it.

EDI is an AI and the connection is likely simply superficial. It uses a Quantum entaglment device to maintain a constant connection to the machine so it can essentially remote control it.

Edit: This is just a theory.

And why exactly would Sovereign feel the need to put in all it's minds inside one being when one mind would suffice? (if EDI's any indication). Just seems pretty dumb where I stand.

Probably one doesn't suffice. While each Reaper is a nation it appears that the Reaper still speaks and operate as one. Essentially each singular mind is no longer a individual or at least not in the traditional sense. Its possible that a Reaper has to use all of its minds as a singular entity so it can completely control a avatar like mecha Sovereign. 

Sovereign or any Reaper probably haven't really experienced anything like that and it was a surprise.

From what Legion said it sounded more like Reapers were similar to Geth just they didn't get all diminshed when they were cut off from each other.

I'm not sure why one mind (especially since it's as you say an organic mind) wouldn't suffice to control a body. It's not like it would be completely cut off from the rest. And not sure why Sovereign or any other Reaper wouldn't know what it was like to have the host die or be damaged you'd think in the millions of years they've been reaping that would've happened before.

Just reads of a asspull so EDI can have her body to me. \\

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:34 .

[Chun Hei]

EDIT: Sorry. I will stop this.

Modifié par Chun Hei, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:41 .

[Blacklash93]

Skimmed the latest posts so forgive if I'm saying things that have already been said (probably).

I was under the impression that the Sovy and Harbinger use the same quantam entanglament EDI uses for her body, with Harbinger finding a way around the pain and nasty side effects of dying in the host body by using a conduit (the collector general).

Which yeah I can see how that brings up problems. If EDI died in her body then the Normandy would go the way of Sovy. Why risk that?

Modifié par Blacklash93, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:42 .

[nitefyre410]

Chun Hei wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Hell why can EDI move herself to a mobile platform without negatives but Sovereign couldn't? That don't make much sense.

It would ruin immersion to have Sovereign as a sexy fem-bot.

 

In a way it would not  - it would be a great averison to the whole Feme bot trope ... Take the Luna Brothers  graphic novel/comic titled Girls(I recommend that you read  its good) it takes whole premise of the Zombie invasion  and flips it on head by replacing the  flesh eating Zombies with what most people would think would be a lonely nerds dream...but...not so much . 

[Vapaa]

Yeah, because making theories concerning how the link is made, based on nothing whatsoever, is really useful.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
From what Legion said it sounded more like Reapers were similar to Geth just they didn't get all diminshed when they were cut off from each other.

Geth programs are simply stronger when there are more of them. One Geth is little more than a animal.

I'm not sure why one mind (especially since it's as you say an organic mind) wouldn't suffice to control a body. It's not like it would be completely cut off from the rest. And not sure why Sovereign or any other Reaper wouldn't know what it was like to have the host die or be damaged you'd think in the millions of years they've been reaping that would've happened before.

Just reads of a asspull so EDI can have her body to me.

EDI can possibly only maintain a connection depending on range and interference but its likely some Quantum Entaglement device. Reapers however can maintain a connection no matter what distance but something else that can be inferred is that due to Sovereign's shields going down its possible the Reaper's drive core is somehow connected with maintaining the connection. It is also the most likely other than my next paragraph which explains it like a social science.

The many minds in a Reaper  be individuals in the traditional sense. There is likely very little if at all truly independent entity within a Reaper. They are essentially a Gestalt consciousness and cannot work without the other. So if a Reaper actually needed to use an Avatar its possible they simply go for an all or nothing approach. Instead of operating it with an essential remote control (maybe their tech doesn't allow it?) They use their mind as the controller.  When it dies a Reaper could fill the trauma of death and would essentially be weak.

Edit: The thing is it really isn't a asspull when you think about it. When you remote control anything you don't get physically hurt when it is damaged unless you are inside it. Some Western militaries use UAVs with remote control operators probably quite similar to how EDI uses her Avatar. Reapers likely uses a more complicated method for some reason.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 29 janvier 2012 - 12:49 .

[nitefyre410]

Bekkael wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

BlaznZero wrote...

Hope you can stick her back in the ship.

She is already in the ship but is also controlling her infiltrator body.

EDI will be the only omnipresent squadmate?

 


ever have a  remote controll car as kid,    or better example... think about EDI like the Mars Rovers. 

[Bekkael]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Bekkael wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

BlaznZero wrote...

Hope you can stick her back in the ship.

She is already in the ship but is also controlling her infiltrator body.

EDI will be the only omnipresent squadmate?

 


ever have a  remote controll car as kid,    or better example... think about EDI like the Mars Rovers. 

It was a joke, really.

I like EDI. I enjoyed the interaction with her in ME2, it's just the body and the Joker thing are....

I'll reserve final judgement until I play the game, but I don't like the sound of how things go in the leak.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Geth programs are simply stronger when there are more of them. One Geth is little more than a animal.

And one Reaper is billions of organic minds uploaded into a Reaper shell. You don't think that mind can function on it's own? It did originally.

EDI can possibly only maintain a connection depending on range and interference but its likely some Quantum Entaglement device. Reapers however can maintain a connection no matter what distance but something else that can be inferred is that due to Sovereign's shields going down its possible the Reaper's drive core is somehow connected with maintaining the connection. It is also the most likely other than my next paragraph which explains it like a social science.

The many minds in a Reaper  be individuals in the traditional sense. There is likely very little if at all truly independent entity within a Reaper. They are essentially a Gestalt consciousness and cannot work without the other. So if a Reaper actually needed to use an Avatar its possible they simply go for an all or nothing approach. Instead of operating it with an essential remote control (maybe their tech doesn't allow it?) They use their mind as the controller.  When it dies a Reaper could fill the trauma of death and would essentially be weak.

Edit: The thing is it really isn't a asspull when you think about it. When you remote control anything you don't get physically hurt when it is damaged unless you are inside it. Some Western militaries use UAVs with remote control operators probably quite similar to how EDI uses her Avatar. Reapers likely uses a more complicated method for some reason.

No the Reapers are literally invidiual organic minds from each reaping being uploaded into a Reaper. It's why they process so many organic beings. They don't just want the body they want their minds. It's a million minds in one body. Each invidiual accounting towards the whole. It's how the Reapers perserve organics. Without maintaining that inviduality there's little point to harvesting all those minds.

And I fail to see why the Reapers would use a more complicated method when a far less risky method exists.

[Blacklash93]

I imagine why people think Reapers form a single intellect made out of many is because how Legion says they have one will and one voice.

It's probably because the minds in the Reaper are finally able to understand each other and build consensus. They have one will because they all agree with and understand one another. They have one voice because there's no need to have more when you all agree.

I agree with Ryzaki. Having many minds should have let Sovereign invest only some of those to posess Saren, avoiding the system crash Sovereign experienced when it was killed inside him.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 29 janvier 2012 - 01:12 .

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
And one Reaper is billions of organic minds uploaded into a Reaper shell. You don't think that mind can function on it's own? It did originally.

It did originally but I doubt they function in a similar way. They are likely not the same individual they once were.

No the Reapers are literally invidiual organic minds from each reaping being uploaded into a Reaper. It's why they process so many organic beings. They don't just want the body they want their minds. It's a million minds in one body. Each invidiual accounting towards the whole. It's how the Reapers perserve organics. Without maintaining that inviduality there's little point to harvesting all those minds.

The Reapers never stated maintaining individuality was there true purpose. Again like I said before they likely don't work in a indvidual manner like us. They probably can make decisions in the way Legion's programs does but are quite possibly in capable of actually doing other actions without the larger group. Legion knew the Reapers were similar to them but not the same. Similar enough that they are a Gestalt entity like the Geth but simply more advanced. The main individuality in the Reapers are the different species each Reaper has and the seek to preserve the essence of the species.

EDI used that word for specific reason and it seems that each race has a intrinsic qualit to it. Now you can argue that the essence of a species is the individuals but that would get into more sociological and even philosophical type of argument that won't be answered much. Then we would be wondering what the Reapers view of 'essence' is.

And I fail to see why the Reapers would use a more complicated method when a far less risky method exists.

It seems that they do anyway since we do know that an operator of any thing like a RC car or a freaking UAV doesn't die if the vehicle is destroyed. If the Reapers actually do become hurt

Edit: Again I said thos are theories (not one I completely agree with) that may actually be true.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 29 janvier 2012 - 01:15 .

[1136342t54_]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I imagine why people think Reapers form a single intellect made out of many is because how Legion says they have one will and one voice.

It's probably because the minds in the Reaper are finally able to understand each other and build consensus. They have one will because they all agree with and understand one another. They have one voice because there's no need to have more when you all agree.

I agree with Ryzaki. Having many minds should have let Sovereign invest only some of those to posess Saren, avoiding the system crash Sovereign experienced when it was killed inside him.

I never said an entirely single intellect but something similar to the Geth. They can make specific decisions but its likely they operate better as a whole than simply one or that (like Sovereign said) the way they exist is simply beyond our comprehension. We don't really have a good real life example of a society working like a Reaper or Geth. Like Legion said our governments impose consensus while the Geth and Reapers generate it. That single sociological difference is one reason why we may not understand.

There could be either a sociological or technical reason why it doesn't work. I think its the latter but the former was more brought up due to a random theory.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
It did originally but I doubt they function in a similar way. They are likely not the same individual they once were.

Time changed them yes but I highly highly doubt the Reapers made the organic minds into one being. I'm pretty sure human minds don't work that way. You can't smash them together and have one mind. You can have them all think alike sure. But they're not gonna all be the same mind. Even the geth don't work that way.

The Reapers never stated maintaining individuality was there true purpose. Again like I said before they likely don't work in a indvidual manner like us. They probably can make decisions in the way Legion's programs does but are quite possibly in capable of actually doing other actions without the larger group. Legion knew the Reapers were similar to them but not the same. Similar enough that they are a Gestalt entity like the Geth but simply more advanced. The main individuality in the Reapers are the different species each Reaper has and the seek to preserve the essence of the species.

They are literally organic minds uploaded into a machine body. They are not geth. Their minds were not manufactured. It was transferred from one source (the original organic body) to another (the Reaper shell).

EDI used that word for specific reason and it seems that each race has a intrinsic qualit to it. Now you can argue that the essence of a species is the individuals but that would get into more sociological and even philosophical type of argument that won't be answered much. Then we would be wondering what the Reapers view of 'essence' is.

I'm pretty sure the mind is the essence of the race.

It seems that they do anyway since we do know that an operator of any thing like a RC car or a freaking UAV doesn't die if the vehicle is destroyed. If the Reapers actually do become hurt

Edit: Again I said thos are theories (not one I completely agree with) that may actually be true.

Which still strikes me as dumb. The Reapers are anything but inefficent. If there's a way to control multiple beings via "remote" and it has no side effects when said being is destroyed I fail to see why they wouldn't use it.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
Time changed them yes but I highly highly doubt the Reapers made the organic minds into one being. I'm pretty sure human minds don't work that way. You can't smash them together and have one mind. You can have them all think alike sure. But they're not gonna all be the same mind. Even the geth don't work that way.

Not one being but they are now more similar to the geth. They are less independent but dependent entities more reliant on the whole to maintain sapience like the Geth. Simply one mind wouldn't work likely multiple ones.

They are literally organic minds uploaded into a machine body. They are not geth. Their minds were not manufactured. It was transferred from one source (the original organic body) to another (the Reaper shell).

We still see that Reapers will refer to themselves as a single being. Harbinger and Sovereign will say I instead of we at times. Especially Sovereign's "I am the Vanguard of your destruction."

I'm pretty sure the mind is the essence of the race.

The entire species specific individuality may not be really necessary. At least not no more than a single Geth.

Which still strikes me as dumb. The Reapers are anything but inefficent. If there's a way to control multiple beings via "remote" and it has no side effects when said being is destroyed I fail to see why they wouldn't use it.

Again its possibly a technical issue we don't really know about. Any time we see them Assuming Direct control is when they are controlling a organic being or reviving it. EDI and anyone else are controlling synthetics.

It may be dumb but then again I would like to wait until ME3 comes out to see if there is a explanation.