122 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

AwesomeName wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

Think you missed the point of ME1 a bit here.

My argument doesn't hinge on it taking too long to get from deep space > alpha relay > eventually the citadel.  It's amazing how many times this gets brought up.

The Citadel opens an instantaneous arrival for the Reapers.  It also can shut down other relays.  By cutting off the relay system you prevent any fleet movements.  It's not about the size of the force the Reapers use, its establishing a lack of defense against them.  Sovi was around to simply send a signal to the Keepers to open the Citadel's back door for the Reapers.  As the Protheans nixed that plan, he uses Saren to correct it.  But Saren doesn't know immediately, hence the events of ME1.  If they simply waited for the rest of the Reapers to fly to the Alpha Relay, you've lost your biggest advantage: surprise/control.

If Saren was able to pull it off, the entire Reaper fleet would have arrived during the Battle of the Citadel.  They came that close.  Once they lost Saren and Sovi, only option was FTL.

No I didn't...  Why would the Reaper fleet getting to the Citadel, via the AR (which, let's be honest, isn't going to take *that* long), mean they wouldn't be able to a) overwhelm any fleet that's been mobilised to defend the Citadel on such short notice and take control of the citadel and shut down the entire relay network and get all the information they need, anyway?  They get the same result whichever way they go, so long as they have some agent, with enough backup, to go through the Conduit to keep the station arms open.

So, again, it's not as simple as you're making it out to be - they didn't want to go via the AR for another reason, which presumably is that it hindered them to a point they wanted to avoid by using the Citadel.

1. You expect that the reaper could steam roll over everyone so easily.
2. You don't expect the we could destory the citedeal so they won't have it.
3.You don't under stand that their goal is not to kill us?

[dreman9999]

Bad King wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Reds19 wrote...

 ok so the Reapers have already tried 3 ways to get out of deep space.... 1. the citidel     2. the collecters rebuilding a Reaper     3. The reapers coming though one of the mass relay's( DLC)
How do you guys think the Reapers will return in ME3?

The Collectors building a reaper had nothing to do with helping the other reapers get into the milky way.

yeah, seems quite insignificant. Why the rush to start a reaper building project. It was prob just a story filler between me1 and me3. epic nonetheless

No, it was not....The reaper being build was just the start of the invasion plans. It would have been finished after they attacted earth using the people on earth to finish it. That started it beforethe invasion so they could quickly turn humanity in to areaper andthen focus on therest of the galxey.

Yeah, it's possible- it's vaguely hinted at that the collectors have multiple ships, so a collector fleet with supporting Occuli (and possibly geth) might be capable of attacking earth and collecting lots of humans (your squadmates do comment on the sheer size of the Collector ship).

Alternatively, it's possible that the human reaper could be finished without having to attack earth (using humans from various colonies from the Terminus systems), and the collectors would have built more reapers after the main reaper fleet arrived (they would have attacked earth with the reaper fleet backing them up to collect much of earth's population).

No,NO, NO.....Cut the collectors out of the equation. The collectors themselve were never going to invade anyone. They were preparing for the REAPERS invasion. AKA, everything you see in ME3. The reapers were making their first steps on an invasion in ME2 so when they started in ME3, they could quickly finish thehuman reaper once they invaded earth in ME3. We put a wrench in that plan so now it will take longer for them to make a human reaper.

[Bad King]

dreman9999 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Reds19 wrote...

 ok so the Reapers have already tried 3 ways to get out of deep space.... 1. the citidel     2. the collecters rebuilding a Reaper     3. The reapers coming though one of the mass relay's( DLC)
How do you guys think the Reapers will return in ME3?

The Collectors building a reaper had nothing to do with helping the other reapers get into the milky way.

yeah, seems quite insignificant. Why the rush to start a reaper building project. It was prob just a story filler between me1 and me3. epic nonetheless

No, it was not....The reaper being build was just the start of the invasion plans. It would have been finished after they attacted earth using the people on earth to finish it. That started it beforethe invasion so they could quickly turn humanity in to areaper andthen focus on therest of the galxey.

Yeah, it's possible- it's vaguely hinted at that the collectors have multiple ships, so a collector fleet with supporting Occuli (and possibly geth) might be capable of attacking earth and collecting lots of humans (your squadmates do comment on the sheer size of the Collector ship).

Alternatively, it's possible that the human reaper could be finished without having to attack earth (using humans from various colonies from the Terminus systems), and the collectors would have built more reapers after the main reaper fleet arrived (they would have attacked earth with the reaper fleet backing them up to collect much of earth's population).

No,NO, NO.....Cut the collectors out of the equation. The collectors themselve were never going to invade anyone. They were preparing for the REAPERS invasion. AKA, everything you see in ME3. The reapers were making their first steps on an invasion in ME2 so when they started in ME3, they could quickly finish thehuman reaper once they invaded earth in ME3. We put a wrench in that plan so now it will take longer for them to make a human reaper.

The Collectors are one of the reapers' tools for creating new reapers, of course it's possible for the collectors to invade- the cruiser had room for millions of humans. The question is not if but when. Were they going to harvest and complete the reaper prior to the reaper invasion or during the reaper invasion. And why do you assume that they were only going to create one human reaper? They may well eventually abduct enough humans to make multiple reapers.

[dreman9999]

Bad King wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Drake-Shepard wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Reds19 wrote...

 ok so the Reapers have already tried 3 ways to get out of deep space.... 1. the citidel     2. the collecters rebuilding a Reaper     3. The reapers coming though one of the mass relay's( DLC)
How do you guys think the Reapers will return in ME3?

The Collectors building a reaper had nothing to do with helping the other reapers get into the milky way.

yeah, seems quite insignificant. Why the rush to start a reaper building project. It was prob just a story filler between me1 and me3. epic nonetheless

No, it was not....The reaper being build was just the start of the invasion plans. It would have been finished after they attacted earth using the people on earth to finish it. That started it beforethe invasion so they could quickly turn humanity in to areaper andthen focus on therest of the galxey.

Yeah, it's possible- it's vaguely hinted at that the collectors have multiple ships, so a collector fleet with supporting Occuli (and possibly geth) might be capable of attacking earth and collecting lots of humans (your squadmates do comment on the sheer size of the Collector ship).

Alternatively, it's possible that the human reaper could be finished without having to attack earth (using humans from various colonies from the Terminus systems), and the collectors would have built more reapers after the main reaper fleet arrived (they would have attacked earth with the reaper fleet backing them up to collect much of earth's population).

No,NO, NO.....Cut the collectors out of the equation. The collectors themselve were never going to invade anyone. They were preparing for the REAPERS invasion. AKA, everything you see in ME3. The reapers were making their first steps on an invasion in ME2 so when they started in ME3, they could quickly finish thehuman reaper once they invaded earth in ME3. We put a wrench in that plan so now it will take longer for them to make a human reaper.

The Collectors are one of the reapers' tools for creating new reapers, of course it's possible for the collectors to invade- the cruiser had room for millions of humans. The question is not if but when. Were they going to harvest and complete the reaper prior to the reaper invasion or during the reaper invasion. And why do you assume that they were only going to create one human reaper? They may well eventually abduct enough humans to make multiple reapers.

No they wouldnot. They were way too small a force to do that. On cruiser does not equal an entire human fleet.
The collecter were never going to be sent to invade.
Also, it wouldbe during because the collectors don't havethe man powerto make that levelof invation on earth.
Also I'm not asuming, the reapers told us flatout they were turning us into a reaper.
It was also made clear they did not have enough for one reaper.

[dreman9999]

AwesomeName wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1. You expect that the reaper could steam roll over everyone so easily.
2. You don't expect the we could destory the citedeal so they won't have it.
3.You don't under stand that their goal is not to kill us?

Well, I have a more refined POV now, posted further up.  But in response to (1.) Considering it took so many ships to take out one Reaper, yeah... I do - hell, ME3's plot heavily depends on you trying to figure out how to beat the Reapers because you know you can't do it with your fleets alone. (2).  they would only destroy the Citadel if they knew what the Reapers were going to do with it.  (3). Yes... why do you think I do?

1. That was a surprise attack from an enemy they did not understand who they are facing with someone coming in through the back door. Now, once they know the reapers are coming  they could just close the arms. Making the fight much longer.
2.They would destory the citedeal if they knew they would lost it the the enemy. Basic 101 of militaty tactics, never give you enemy any recource even it it means not having it yourself.That tactic allowed the russins to beat Napolion.
3. Good, my point is they could alway just come in and do what you just stated. The problem is that that would take time and let their target scatter, making the progress longer and less effective. They wouldnever geteveryone and those left over can endure and leave things for the next race. They made a trap for the reason of keeping their target confuse and unable to know what is going on.

[Bad King]

dreman9999 wrote...

No they wouldnot. They were way too small a force to do that. On cruiser does not equal an entire human fleet.
The collecter were never going to be sent to invade.
Also, it wouldbe during because the collectors don't havethe man powerto make that levelof invation on earth.
Also I'm not asuming, the reapers told us flatout they were turning us into a reaper.
It was also made clear they did not have enough for one reaper.

That's assuming the Collectors only have one cruiser. Okeer seemed to think that they had multiple vessels based on what he taught Grunt, and even if they did only have one cruiser, they still have Occuli and possibly geth heretics to support them.

And it isn't made clear that 'they did not have enough for one reaper'. They'd only harvested a few Terminus colonies. With all the Terminus colonies harvested and humans taken from other mixed-race planets in the Terminus Systems, the collectors may well have been able to complete the first reaper.

Modifié par Bad King, 30 janvier 2012 - 06:40 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Reaper plan A : Advantages.
Surprice.
Control of the mass relay system right away not only limiting travel but also communication between the young races.
Annihilation of center of government for all the council races.
Files on the location of colonies, fleets other kinds of secrets the Vanguard was unaware of (reapers are not omniscient)
Control of the center hub of the entire mass effect relay system - with it's 17 mass relays the citadel is the nucleus of the entire relay system - it all spreads out from the citadel.
With races isolated the reapers can pick the younger races off one at a time when they feel the time is right.
Disadvantages = none.

Plan B : Advantages = none.

Disadvantages :

Long trek from dark space.
Impossible to keep presence secret.
No relay control - younger races can still travel/communicate though mass relays.
No cutting of the heads of government in one stroke.
Has to be prepared to engage multiple races in combat that might lead to loss of reapers even if victorious.

[Khran1505]

They took a taxi, how do you think they got there?

[ParagonForLife]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Number of reapers? Unknown.


If we are talking realisticly? Millions..if not trillions. They harvest the entire GALAXY. Think about that for a second.

Humantiy has creatd over 200 large military ships in less than a century. With only the limited resources it had.

If repaers are 40million years old - how many ships could they have built (I'm counting lesser reapers and "direct-control" ship) in that time span? With the combined resources of the entire galaxy?

Mindbogling...
Frankly, the reapers a huge let-down.

no...the Reapers need an entire race for a SINGLE Dreadnought like Harbringer or Soveregin that means they whould for example need to take all Humans to make a single Dreadnought so the Reapers have around 1k ships they dont have millions of ships and not trillions...as such a fleet whould be impossible to make the reapers whouldnt even need to hide in dark space and they whouldnt leave a single vanguard they could leave 100 million vanguards behind.....you dont seem to realize how many ships even 1000 is  1000 ships is alot of ships 

[RyuujinZERO]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Q: Why didn't the reapers just fly there in the first place. With light-lag and the emptyness of space they could've gotten there unseen anyway
A: Drive core discharge, reapers are still eezo-core using ships. They would have to drop from FTl to discharge their drive cores on a regular basis. Houdreds of giants ships suddenly dropping out of FTL to discharge their cores would not go un-noticed.

It seems quite obvious that the reapers do not have to discharge their drive cores since where would they do that doing their long trek though dark space?

The galaxy is a lot bigger than the visible part of it, there are plenty of stars, planets and other bodies out there beyond the edge of the visible disc (The luminous parts of a galaxy are regions of dense, hot gases where stars form, but the dark areas beyond them are just as dense in terms of stars, they're just dimmer and the relative temperature of space is lower). The reapers would need to be able to endure longer flights, but they'd certainly have planets to discharge onto.

Id' also point to the fact when we see Sovereign in the citadel's particle field, when we see it in the atmosphere of Eden Prime and when we see it really close to the citadel, on all 3 occasions it's discharging copious amounts of energy into it with red lightning-like flashes. Red is a bit unusual but the lightning according to the codex is from eezo-core discharge.

Modifié par RyuujinZERO, 30 janvier 2012 - 06:59 .

[Anacronian Stryx]

Arcian wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

They started slogging through (about) 400,000 lightyears of nothingness immediately after Sovereign was wtfpwned.

>400,000 lightyears
whatthefhckamireading.png

That's 4 times the diameter of the milky way. Why in the hell would they chill out that far in dark space?

10,000-15,000 light years outside the galaxy WAY more likely..

This is actually shown in the game.
The reapers looking at the galaxy core


Now take a look at the milky way

 
It's pretty obvious that the reapers are far closer than 400.000 Ly

[mrpoultry]

True I mean a milky way even the two bar version is tiny and they don't even have mouth to eat it. Not that it would fill them up anyway.

[111987]

I think the end-game cinematic wasn't meant to be taken literally. They just wanted to shown an epic shot of the Reapers approaching the galaxy. To do that you would have to show them really really far out, otherwise it's less clear about what's going on.

I mean if we are taking that scene as entirely literal, why weren't the Reapers traveling at FTL speeds? And if you had already completed Arrival, there's no way they were that far out.

[Goldendroid]

My guess, is simply fly to the edges of the Milky Way, although it takes a while. From there they just use their mass relays, and since they invented it, those Reaper IFFs might even throw in such a way as to go wherever they may please!

Who knows. All shall be revealed in detail, after all it is the end.  

[ParagonForLife]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

They started slogging through (about) 400,000 lightyears of nothingness immediately after Sovereign was wtfpwned.

>400,000 lightyears
whatthefhckamireading.png

That's 4 times the diameter of the milky way. Why in the hell would they chill out that far in dark space?

10,000-15,000 light years outside the galaxy WAY more likely..

This is actually shown in the game.
The reapers looking at the galaxy core


Now take a look at the milky way

 
It's pretty obvious that the reapers are far closer than 400.000 Ly

yea exactly theres no need for them to go 400k light years outside our galaxy even 40k whould be more then enough all you need to do is be a few thousand light years outside our galaxy and no one will find you because theres no crew of any ship that is going to go hey guys wanna travel to another galaxy? it will only take a few thousand years
Its darkspace theres nothing between galaxies just void

[ZehnWaters]

ParagonForLife wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Number of reapers? Unknown.


If we are talking realisticly? Millions..if not trillions. They harvest the entire GALAXY. Think about that for a second.

Humantiy has creatd over 200 large military ships in less than a century. With only the limited resources it had.

If repaers are 40million years old - how many ships could they have built (I'm counting lesser reapers and "direct-control" ship) in that time span? With the combined resources of the entire galaxy?

Mindbogling...
Frankly, the reapers a huge let-down.

no...the Reapers need an entire race for a SINGLE Dreadnought like Harbringer or Soveregin that means they whould for example need to take all Humans to make a single Dreadnought so the Reapers have around 1k ships they dont have millions of ships and not trillions...as such a fleet whould be impossible to make the reapers whouldnt even need to hide in dark space and they whouldnt leave a single vanguard they could leave 100 million vanguards behind.....you dont seem to realize how many ships even 1000 is  1000 ships is alot of ships 

Indeed.  Remember how many Reapers we see at the end of ME2?  That was only 295 Reapers (someone apparently sat down and counted.)  1000 is 3 times that!

[General User]

TexasToast712 wrote...

Interstellar truck stops.

Actually... I think you're right.

I mean, if the Reapers had the wherewithal to construct object Ro and the Alpha Relay as a backdoor into the galaxy, then it stands to reason that they also have supply caches, discharge points. etc. (i.e. truckstops) to support using that backdoor.

Modifié par General User, 31 janvier 2012 - 05:01 .

[ZehnWaters]

Also as far as the Rachni Wars. I'm pretty sure that had nothing to do with helping the Reapers come back or why would Sovereign wait 2000+ years to try again? Were they indoctrinated? Apparently. But all you had to do was come across a Reaper artifact to have that happen. Look at what happened in ME: Revelation. Look at what happened to Saren's brother in ME: Evolution. Being indoctrinated doesn't mean you seek to bring the Reapers in. Saren's brother didn't. The only reason Saren did was because he met a second artifact (in Revelation) and Sovereign needed to open the Citadel Relay. Who knows why they impelled the Rachni to do what they did (maybe by conquering the galaxy they'd have a large enough population to make lots of Reapers).

[Arppis]

If  they do, they get this from me:

[MoltenRock]

Arppis wrote...

If  they do, they get this from me:

image

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