153 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

Gaiden96 wrote...
AAAAAAND you're back to talking out of your ass without any actual, factual evidence to support your claims. 

The whole negativity thing? Get rid of it. It clouds your better judgement.

I would also like to state that DA2 made enough money to make back the funds spent on production costs.

So an expansion (eg. something that makes more money (especially if it attracts old fans that were put off by a few design decisions in DA2)) is a sound business plan.

Come on man, who's judgment is being clouded here? If you honestly think that DA2 will get a full expansion pack one year post launch, you're crazy. Or, more likely, fully insane. Its just not going to happen. At most there might be one more DLC, but another Awakening style expansion won't happen unless they can have it standalone. And at that point, you're likely better off making a new game since any product with the DA2 moniker attached to it is going to run the chance of likely turning off anyone that disliked DA2 in the first place.

DA2 is done and over for about 95% of the people that played it. People have moved on. There is a very good chance that even most of the DA team has moved on from DA2 and are working on DA3. When you have a game like DA2 which - a.) Did not sell better than its predecessor, b.) Was extremely divisive, resulting in many people that did buy the game to not enjoy it and uninstall it or sell it, and c.) Its one year post launch and even if people liked it, they've moved on to other games- you're not going to make money back on an expack. The biggest determinant in the success of an expack is how soon you release it from the base game. And even then, you're dealing with a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the audience that bought the base game.

If BioWare has any brains left, they've closed the book on DA2 and are concentrating on saving whats left of the DA brand with a decent Dragon Age 3, not some expansion pack to DA2.

[Wolf]

Yrkoon wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

I didn't make a claim.  I was mocking your fantasies.

And  you're not a moderator, so stop pretending that you can tell people how they should post.

I may not be a moderator, but I sure as hell am not going to let you derail MY thread simply because you don't know your facts.

I'll post what I want.


And you've yet to refute anything I've said  or  linked us to.      Running around, putting words into people's mouths,  calling people "trolls", and telling them  to "please don't post anything negative!", is  pretty much ALL you've been doing on this thread for the past 2 pages.

I've refuted arguments you've used as a basis for your "no more DLC for DA2" theory with things that actually make sense, as opposed to you, who have simply been posting opinions and assuming things based on little more than assumptions due to your negative outlook and lack of actual understanding of what is being discussed.

We will now end this argument (yours and mine) and resume this thread's original functions. 

I'd apreciate it if you didn't derail it further. 
Thank you.

[Yrkoon]

Gaiden96 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

I'll post what I want.


And you've yet to refute anything I've said  or  linked us to.      Running around, putting words into people's mouths,  calling people "trolls", and telling them  to "please don't post anything negative!", is  pretty much ALL you've been doing on this thread for the past 2 pages.

I've refuted arguments you've used as a basis for your "no more DLC for DA2"

No.  You haven't.    Basically saying  "No!  stop with the negativity!  They COULD secretly put out a Big expansion to finish Hawke's story!  Please Believe!"....  is not a refutation.  It's  just "disagreement".  Disagreement  in the face of   Time, sales, trackrecords, developer statements.....

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 février 2012 - 07:47 .

[Wolf]

Brockololly wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...
AAAAAAND you're back to talking out of your ass without any actual, factual evidence to support your claims. 

The whole negativity thing? Get rid of it. It clouds your better judgement.

I would also like to state that DA2 made enough money to make back the funds spent on production costs.

So an expansion (eg. something that makes more money (especially if it attracts old fans that were put off by a few design decisions in DA2)) is a sound business plan.

Come on man, who's judgment is being clouded here? If you honestly think that DA2 will get a full expansion pack one year post launch, you're crazy. Or, more likely, fully insane. Its just not going to happen. At most there might be one more DLC, but another Awakening style expansion won't happen unless they can have it standalone. And at that point, you're likely better off making a new game since any product with the DA2 moniker attached to it is going to run the chance of likely turning off anyone that disliked DA2 in the first place.

DA2 is done and over for about 95% of the people that played it. People have moved on. There is a very good chance that even most of the DA team has moved on from DA2 and are working on DA3. When you have a game like DA2 which - a.) Did not sell better than its predecessor, b.) Was extremely divisive, resulting in many people that did buy the game to not enjoy it and uninstall it or sell it, and c.) Its one year post launch and even if people liked it, they've moved on to other games- you're not going to make money back on an expack. The biggest determinant in the success of an expack is how soon you release it from the base game. And even then, you're dealing with a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the audience that bought the base game.

If BioWare has any brains left, they've closed the book on DA2 and are concentrating on saving whats left of the DA brand with a decent Dragon Age 3, not some expansion pack to DA2.

The brand does not require saving, it requires improving. 

I am an active user on DA wiki and I still see a lot of people saying that they are going through DA II and are eagerly awaiting new content to play, so I have no idea where these "95%" statistics you're talking about come from.

A stand-alone expansion pack is the most likely scenario (if such a thing were to happen) if you think about it. What better way to improve on the features that so many people disliked than making an expansion which does not require the main game to play through. 

It's not perfect, but it's a damn good try. And those of us who still support DA II would greatly enjoy it I'm sure.

Modifié par Gaiden96, 05 février 2012 - 07:47 .

[Yrkoon]

A stand alone expansion is a great Idea.... if you're not interested in sales. Expansions don't sell as  nearly as much as full titles  (in fact, they sell only about   1/10th as well as the  parent title  on average)  And if you're going to make it a stand alone, why not just add some more content and make it a stand-alone New Title?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 février 2012 - 07:53 .

[Wolf]

Yrkoon wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

I'll post what I want.


And you've yet to refute anything I've said  or  linked us to.      Running around, putting words into people's mouths,  calling people "trolls", and telling them  to "please don't post anything negative!", is  pretty much ALL you've been doing on this thread for the past 2 pages.

I've refuted arguments you've used as a basis for your "no more DLC for DA2" theory with things that actually make sense, as opposed to you, who have simply been posting opinions and assuming things based on little more than assumptions due to your negative outlook and lack of actual understanding of what is being discussed.

We will now end this argument (yours and mine) and resume this thread's original functions. 

I'd apreciate it if you didn't derail it further. 
Thank you.

Fixed that for you.

No.  You haven't.    Basically saying  "No!  stop with the negativity!  They COULD secretly put out a Big expansion to finish Hawke's story!  Please Believe!"....  is not a refutation.  It's  just "disagreement".  Disagreement  in the face of   Time, sales, trackrecords, developer statements.....

Now you are simply twisting my words to win this argument. 

I never stated one way or the other regarding what may or may not happen. 

I used facts and logic, whereas you have been negative about the whole thing by outright saying that there will be NO  new content for DA2 without any reasons given aside from "it won't happen".
 
It's your opinion, however misguided, we disagree and I won't waste my breath anymore.

Believe whatever you want. 

Modifié par Gaiden96, 05 février 2012 - 08:00 .

[Yrkoon]

Gaiden96 wrote...

Now you are simply twisting my words to win this argument.

I never stated one way or the other regarding what may or may not happen. 

Really?  My bad!  It must have been a different Gaiden96 who said this  stuff then:

In Your ( or his) OP: 

Gaiden96 wrote...
I can't point to a specific thread or comments made by devs, but I just feel that something big is coming.

Then later:  

Gaiden96 wrote...
I doubt that. It's much more likely that after ME3 releases, we see the continuation of DA II DLC

Gaiden96 wrote...
They may be working on an expansion that will be like a standalone game and using mechanics that were not present in DA II, or an update to allow said mechanics to be integrated with said future content and import/any other bugs still present.

Gaiden96 wrote...
Besides, after they show a shot of Merrill in golden armor with the armor slots available just like the ones for Hawke, I think we have a pretty damn good reason to assume these improvements will be coming for DA II still.

Say, if you should happen to see this other Gaiden96, wake him up.  Tell him to stop dreaming and get online!

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 février 2012 - 08:10 .

[Wolf]

Yrkoon wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

Now you are simply twisting my words to win this argument.

I never stated one way or the other regarding what may or may not happen. 

Really?  My bad!  It must have been a different Gaiden96 who said this  stuff then:

In Your ( or his) OP: 

Gaiden96 wrote...
I can't point to a specific thread or comments made by devs, but I just feel that something big is coming.

Then later:  

Gaiden96 wrote...
I doubt that. It's much more likely that after ME3 releases, we see the continuation of DA II DLC

Gaiden96 wrote...
They may be working on an expansion that will be like a standalone game and using mechanics that were not present in DA II, or an update to allow said mechanics to be integrated with said future content and import/any other bugs still present.

Gaiden96 wrote...
Besides, after they show a shot of Merrill in golden armor with the armor slots available just like the ones for Hawke, I think we have a pretty damn good reason to assume these improvements will be coming for DA II still.

Say, if you should happen to see this other Gaiden96, wake him up.  Tell him to stop dreaming and get online!

My original post referred to a specific announcement! As in, something that absolutely confirm new content is indeed dated for release.

What I have been posting now is related to your own comments stating that no new content will be made for DA II!

I'm simply speculating! Drop it already!

[Yrkoon]

Gaiden96 wrote...
What I have been posting now is related to your own comments stating that no new content will be made for DA II!

That... doesn't change the fact that just like everyone else here you were making statements regarding what may or may not happen.    Something you say you've not done.

Gaiden96 wrote...
Drop it already!

You're. Not. A. Moderator.

 I'll. Post. What. I. Want.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 février 2012 - 08:49 .

[Wolf]

Yrkoon wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...
What I have been posting now is related to your own comments stating that no new content will be made for DA II!

That... doesn't change the fact that just like everyone else here you were making statements regarding what may or may not happen.    Something you say you've not done.

Gaiden96 wrote...
Drop it already!

You're. Not. A. Moderator.

 I'll. Post. What. I. Want.

This discussion is over. 

Modifié par Gaiden96, 05 février 2012 - 09:40 .

[Yrkoon]

 For you, perhaps.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 05 février 2012 - 10:08 .

[TEWR]

Gaiden96 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hawke is already Bioware's character and not mine. If Bioware made a movie/anime/book with him I wouldn't mind at all because of that fact.

The in-game Hawke was never once my character. I was just constantly playing Bioware's character.

Maybe you feel this way, but many other players don't. They like the Hawke they have made and want to continue to develop their character. 

That's the thing though. There is no character to develop. Hawke's motivations were never my own. He wanted to sit around and be lazy until he was forced to get involved.

My Hawke wouldn't have done that. He would've gotten involved with the Mages and Templars when the opportune moment presented itself, which would've been during Act II.

All the player gets to pick is his personality. Ultimately, everything else plays out the exact same way, with Hawke doing absolutely nothing.

Very rarely would the player actually get to make Hawke do something they would also do, Feynriel being one such case. But these are very few instances. With the Warden, I was able to give him my motivations and for the most part he could act on them.

Xanthos Aeducan despises the Templars/Chantry and thinks the mages would be a valuable asset in the Blight, both the surface one and the constant one the Dwarves face. So he's able to save the Mages in the Tower, use them, and then help Dagna study magic. In his mind, it might help to foster relations between Orzammar and the Mages.

And you know what? Not only did the game allow for this motivation to be acted upon, but it also did more than Xanthos had hoped for. It didn't restrict him into having only the Templars at his back. It didn't shoot down his choice and tell him he was wrong for siding with the mages, wherein all of them would end up dead due to plot stupidity.

That's probably why DAO is so much more loved than DAII. Because the Warden's motivations can be the same as the player's for the most part. Hawke's.... not so much.

I think if Xanthos Aeducan had been able to take the throne of Orzammar upon returning to gain the Dwarves' aid, I would've put the game in some sort of case and worshipped it night and day.

[Wolf]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hawke is already Bioware's character and not mine. If Bioware made a movie/anime/book with him I wouldn't mind at all because of that fact.

The in-game Hawke was never once my character. I was just constantly playing Bioware's character.

Maybe you feel this way, but many other players don't. They like the Hawke they have made and want to continue to develop their character. 

That's the thing though. There is no character to develop. Hawke's motivations were never my own. He wanted to sit around and be lazy until he was forced to get involved.

My Hawke wouldn't have done that. He would've gotten involved with the Mages and Templars when the opportune moment presented itself, which would've been during Act II.

All the player gets to pick is his personality. Ultimately, everything else plays out the exact same way, with Hawke doing absolutely nothing.

Very rarely would the player actually get to make Hawke do something they would also do, Feynriel being one such case. But these are very few instances. With the Warden, I was able to give him my motivations and for the most part he could act on them.

Xanthos Aeducan despises the Templars/Chantry and thinks the mages would be a valuable asset in the Blight, both the surface one and the constant one the Dwarves face. So he's able to save the Mages in the Tower, use them, and then help Dagna study magic. In his mind, it might help to foster relations between Orzammar and the Mages.

And you know what? Not only did the game allow for this motivation to be acted upon, but it also did more than Xanthos had hoped for. It didn't restrict him into having only the Templars at his back. It didn't shoot down his choice and tell him he was wrong for siding with the mages, wherein all of them would end up dead due to plot stupidity.

That's probably why DAO is so much more loved than DAII. Because the Warden's motivations can be the same as the player's for the most part. Hawke's.... not so much.

I think if Xanthos Aeducan had been able to take the throne of Orzammar upon returning to gain the Dwarves' aid, I would've put the game in some sort of case and worshipped it night and day.

I get that. Hawke is a reactive character, not an active one, unlike the Warden.

It's a connection more along the lines of links with other characters, your companions. 

That is the gist of it.

We both share the concern over Hawke not doing much though.

I guess (this is my sole opinion though) it is based on the fact that what might be coming next gives us the opportunity to expand the character where DA II did not. Improvements are sorely needed, yes, but for those of us who still like DA II it does not make the game horrible, or even unplayable.

Modifié par Gaiden96, 05 février 2012 - 10:23 .

[TEWR]

I get that. Hawke is a reactive character, not an active one, unlike the Warden.

It's a connection more along the lines of links with other characters, your companions.

That is the gist of it.

We both share the concern over Hawke not doing much though.

Well, the Warden was reactive too, but in his story it was justified because you can't predict when a Blight is going to happen unless you're a Warden.

That said, I guess one could roleplay certain things the Warden did to have an air of proactivity.

But yea, that's basically why I dislike Hawke. In his story, being entirely reactive/inactive isn't justified, for any reason. What my Hawke would've done isn't what Hawke actually did. As a result, Hawke is and always will be Bioware's Hawke.

Which is not a good move for the people who enjoy making a character their own. If I wanted to see Bioware's Hawke, I'd ask them to make a Let's Play of DAII and upload it on Youtube.

I guess (this is my sole opinion though) it is based on the fact that what might be coming next gives us the opportunity to expand the character where DA II did not. Improvements are sorely needed, yes, but for those of us who still like DA II it does not make the game horrible, or even unplayable.

They'd have to start doing that in DLC before an expansion, and MotA was the best opportunity for this. And they failed spectaculously.

I think you and I discussed MotA being a failure in terms of roleplaying once before actually.

And I'm inclined to believe that they're on the verge of giving up on DAII if they haven't already.

Out of curiosity, when did Awakening come out? How many months after Origins?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 février 2012 - 10:28 .

[Asch Lavigne]

I too did not feel like Hawke was mine. The Warden too but nowhere near as much as Hawke..

This may partly be Mass Effect's fault. I do feel like Shepard is mine far more than any DA protagonist.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Out of curiosity, when did Awakening come out? How many months after Origins?

Origins - November 3, 2009
Awakening - March 16, 2010

Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 05 février 2012 - 10:34 .

[astreqwerty]

I dont understand why people object so much to reality..da2 wasnt succesful therefore an expansion would be completely inadvisable from a bussiness perspective..as far as dlcs are concerned the time has obviously passed. Last nail in the coffin:talks for da3 have begun already.i dont see how anything da2 related can still be in the works because overall it wouldnt make sense to keep it hidden for so long

[Wolf]

astreqwerty wrote...

I dont understand why people object so much to reality..da2 wasnt succesful therefore an expansion would be
completely inadvisable from a bussiness perspective..as far as dlcs are concerned the time has obviously passed.

It was successful in a business sense. It made enough money to cover production costs and made a profit, however mariginally smaller than Origin's it was.

Read my penultimate post on the previous page.

Last nail in the coffin:talks for da3 have begun already.i dont see how anything da2 related can still be in the works because overall it wouldnt make sense to keep it hidden for so long

It would if you consider the other projects Bioware has had under their belts for the past year, namely building momentum and publicity for ME3 and the same for TOR and guaranteeing support for their first MMO.

It does not make it impossible, only improbable, depending on how you approach the issue.

Modifié par Gaiden96, 05 février 2012 - 10:59 .

[Wolf]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They'd have to start doing that in DLC before an expansion, and MotA was the best opportunity for this. And they failed spectaculously.

I think you and I discussed MotA being a failure in terms of roleplaying once before actually.

Nothing is set in stone yet, but I honestly hope they don't.

MotA had it's one giant problem in the form of neglecting you a choice of how to approach Tallis.

I still think they can make it work.

[PinkShoes]

would it be nice for some dlc? sure. But i would rather they work hard on DA3. Make it the best game it can be.

[Cutlasskiwi]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hawke is already Bioware's character and not mine. If Bioware made a movie/anime/book with him I wouldn't mind at all because of that fact.

The in-game Hawke was never once my character. I was just constantly playing Bioware's character.

Maybe I'm more forgiving when it comes to DA2 because I've always viewed the PCs, in every BioWare game, as their character and not mine.

[Apollo Starflare]

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hawke is already Bioware's character and not mine. If Bioware made a movie/anime/book with him I wouldn't mind at all because of that fact.

The in-game Hawke was never once my character. I was just constantly playing Bioware's character.

Maybe I'm more forgiving when it comes to DA2 because I've always viewed the PCs, in every BioWare game, as their character and not mine.

This. A character I can customize and tailor to my preferences, but BioWare's character nonetheless.

[Fiery Phoenix]

DA3 will very likely be announced at E3 this year (which is early June) and release around April or May next year. They won't announce it in March because that's going to be all about ME3.

[Heimdall]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hawke is already Bioware's character and not mine. If Bioware made a movie/anime/book with him I wouldn't mind at all because of that fact.

The in-game Hawke was never once my character. I was just constantly playing Bioware's character.

Maybe you feel this way, but many other players don't. They like the Hawke they have made and want to continue to develop their character. 

That's the thing though. There is no character to develop. Hawke's motivations were never my own. He wanted to sit around and be lazy until he was forced to get involved.

My Hawke wouldn't have done that. He would've gotten involved with the Mages and Templars when the opportune moment presented itself, which would've been during Act II.

All the player gets to pick is his personality. Ultimately, everything else plays out the exact same way, with Hawke doing absolutely nothing.

Very rarely would the player actually get to make Hawke do something they would also do, Feynriel being one such case. But these are very few instances. With the Warden, I was able to give him my motivations and for the most part he could act on them.

Xanthos Aeducan despises the Templars/Chantry and thinks the mages would be a valuable asset in the Blight, both the surface one and the constant one the Dwarves face. So he's able to save the Mages in the Tower, use them, and then help Dagna study magic. In his mind, it might help to foster relations between Orzammar and the Mages.

And you know what? Not only did the game allow for this motivation to be acted upon, but it also did more than Xanthos had hoped for. It didn't restrict him into having only the Templars at his back. It didn't shoot down his choice and tell him he was wrong for siding with the mages, wherein all of them would end up dead due to plot stupidity.

That's probably why DAO is so much more loved than DAII. Because the Warden's motivations can be the same as the player's for the most part. Hawke's.... not so much.

I think if Xanthos Aeducan had been able to take the throne of Orzammar upon returning to gain the Dwarves' aid, I would've put the game in some sort of case and worshipped it night and day.

Hence why I enjoyed DA2 more than some.  Alys Hawke really was a more reactive character as I has envisioned her.
It worked out rather well for me.

[Fiery Phoenix]

simfamSP wrote...

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

DA3 will very likely be announced at E3 this year (which is early June) and release around April or May next year. They won't announce it in March because that's going to be all about ME3.

I would sleep easier if it was released very late next year.

Me too, but I wouldn't count on that. May 2013 is about as late as they can be with EA at the helm.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 05 février 2012 - 05:51 .