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[Anthropophobic]

IsaacShep wrote...

Anthropophobic wrote...

They brought back Garrus and Tali because they've been fan favorites since ME1, and clearly, no one from ME2 was as well received as they were. If only the ME2 squaddies had been better characters.

Popularity does not equal quality. See: Britney Spears, McDonalds etc

Those were/are popular due to marketing magic and the fact that pop music is psychologically addictive, while fatty foods make the body crave more fatty foods. Garrus and Tali, on the other hand, are characters who have been well received since ME1 on their own merits.

[Ryzaki]

Okay wait a second.

There are two threads. Can those who are *pro* the ME3 squaddies go to the thread Cheez just made and those who are against stay here?

Since Cheez highlighted her OP to have fanwangst dissenting opinions go here it's only fair that "fanwangst" dissenting opinions on this thread go to hers.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 07:41 .

[MordinKrios]

Anthropophobic wrote...


Garrus is hardly the "most pampered character" in ME. Liara is unkillable, the VS is romance-able from the start and is apparently getting a special role in ME3, despite how unlikable they were. Miranda was the toughest character to kill off in ME2, and because of the way the game was structured, she and Jacob were the only characters you ever saw in the debriefings consistently.

 

Garrus and Tali are the only ones to be in all three games as squadmates. I agree Liara that shouldn't have plot armour but.... 

"Despite how unlikeable they were" 

Is just your point of view. Also not every character deserves/needs a romance. Mordin is one of (my view) the best characters ever created in ME but a romance with him would add nothing. 

And when you say "getting a special role" i have no idea what you are talking about. 

If the devs didn't have dextro has squaddies and had say, Legion and Miranda instead let's see your reaction. 

[What a Succulent Ass]

I've always assumed Tali and Garrus were in ME2 because they were incredibly boring in ME1. Tali vomited the same six codex entries at you the entire game unless you procured some (easily missed) geth data. With that, she has about four unique lines aboard the Normandy. If you went after Saleon early, Garrus spent the entire game saying "Thank you, Commander."

...Oddly, they were more likeable in ME2, but the problem got worse. You could barely speak to them unless you were trying to get some sweet alien arse.

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 29 janvier 2012 - 08:04 .

[Ryzaki]

Sadly it looks like I'll have 3 characters to enjoy. Prothy, Vega and Garrus. Thankfully that's enough for some variety in my playthroughs.

[android654]

Lizardviking wrote...

android654 wrote...

I still don't get the Jacob hatred. Out of all the new squaddies he's the easily most trusted. He's the only one who doesn't have a personal vendetta or motive, he's always honest and upfront about it, he's one of 4 people on the Normandy that's ex-Alliance (Shepard, Chakwas, and Jeff). Clearly if you were really int hat situation he would be the first person you'd pick to take with you on almost every mission because of the similarities i your pasts and his brutal honesty and integrity. He's possibly the most honorable of the crew (aside from Shepard) so I can't grasp the disdain people have towards him.

Is it because he's boring? If so I can think of 2 members in the ME3 roster that have proven to have the emotional depth of a shot glass yet they've been around for 3 games.

Zaeed is ex-Alliance as well.

Zaeed's an avowed mecenary and doesn't have the attitude of a soldier any longer. Jacob still treats Shepard with the ritual and respect of a CO as if he were still in the Alliance.

This still doesn't adress why people didn't like Jacob . He's quite literally the only character in the squad that has zero liabilities by being on the ship. Everyone else has baggage that puts a target on the Normandy at all times.

Modifié par android654, 29 janvier 2012 - 07:49 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

android654 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

android654 wrote...

I still don't get the Jacob hatred. Out of all the new squaddies he's the easily most trusted. He's the only one who doesn't have a personal vendetta or motive, he's always honest and upfront about it, he's one of 4 people on the Normandy that's ex-Alliance (Shepard, Chakwas, and Jeff). Clearly if you were really int hat situation he would be the first person you'd pick to take with you on almost every mission because of the similarities i your pasts and his brutal honesty and integrity. He's possibly the most honorable of the crew (aside from Shepard) so I can't grasp the disdain people have towards him.

Is it because he's boring? If so I can think of 2 members in the ME3 roster that have proven to have the emotional depth of a shot glass yet they've been around for 3 games.

Zaeed is ex-Alliance as well.

Zaeed's an avowed mecenary and doesn't have the attitude of a soldier any longer. Jacob still treats Shepard with the ritual and respect of a CO as if he were still in the Alliance.

This still doesn't adress why people didn't like Jacob . He's quite literally the only character in the squad that has zero liabilities by being on the ship. Everyone else has baggage that puts a target on the Normandy at all times.

Because he was a dull character? Because there was so many things set up about him (he's a biotic, has issues with the alliance, Cerberus, his dad, Thane, Zaeed) but nothing comes out of any of it?

[Razorsedge820]

I like the new smaller squad, it gives Bioware an opportunity to flesh them out even more. Honestly I was not a big fan of the number of squad mates in ME2 because in a sense it it took away depth and development from each one them. Now with a smaller squad we will get more and longer dialogue with old and new characters.

[CheeseEnchilada]

I think I've been so negative about the ME3 team because I have this fear that all of my favorite ME2 characters (and Wrex) will be nothing more than glorified cameos, my ME2 romances won't get proper development, and I'll end up hating the ME3 team for not being my favorites. It's likely an irrational fear, and I am looking forward to Vega and Prothy, so that's something. Would I have preferred some ME2 characters in the squad? Sure, but unless they're all thrown under the bus, I won't take out any misplaced anger on the ME3 group.

That being said, I'm on the fence about Garrus' role in the squad. It'll be good to get some more dialog and banter from him. However, I was hoping he would come into his own and lead his own squad, gaining a little character development. If he ends up just being a 'bro' character again, I'm going to be seriously disappointed.

Modifié par CheeseEnchilada, 29 janvier 2012 - 07:55 .

[KayFirefly]

Not happy with any of the ME3 exclusive squaddies, especially being that He-Spoiler is DLC and She-Spoiler is not (seriously... wtf?). He seems -a lot- more useful to the plot and interesting than her, even if he is a complete deus ex machina. Plus her design makes me facedesk.
I can understand the concept behind Vega's role on the team, but frankly, the last installment of a trilogy is the wrong place to begin. He seems like a big waste of squadmate-space and I'm going to be a hipster and blame EA like everyone else.
Liara rejoining the squad just seems... weird. After that whole Shadow Broker fiasco and her becoming the most powerful individual in the galaxy.
Though, I'm glad Garrus, Tali, and Ashley/Kaidan are back again (despite the latter's role in ME2, it's a great opportunity for character development and emotional writing). Like almost every other poster on this thread, I would've rather had Legion back than She-Spoiler.
Along with Miranda (or Kasumi, because she really deserves a dialogue wheel the most out of all the ME2 characters). Samara/Jack returning would have been rad, but Liara's filing the role of squad biotic and Grunt's been replaced with Ashley/Vega.

[android654]

Lizardviking wrote...

android654 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

android654 wrote...

I still don't get the Jacob hatred. Out of all the new squaddies he's the easily most trusted. He's the only one who doesn't have a personal vendetta or motive, he's always honest and upfront about it, he's one of 4 people on the Normandy that's ex-Alliance (Shepard, Chakwas, and Jeff). Clearly if you were really int hat situation he would be the first person you'd pick to take with you on almost every mission because of the similarities i your pasts and his brutal honesty and integrity. He's possibly the most honorable of the crew (aside from Shepard) so I can't grasp the disdain people have towards him.

Is it because he's boring? If so I can think of 2 members in the ME3 roster that have proven to have the emotional depth of a shot glass yet they've been around for 3 games.

Zaeed is ex-Alliance as well.

Zaeed's an avowed mecenary and doesn't have the attitude of a soldier any longer. Jacob still treats Shepard with the ritual and respect of a CO as if he were still in the Alliance.

This still doesn't adress why people didn't like Jacob . He's quite literally the only character in the squad that has zero liabilities by being on the ship. Everyone else has baggage that puts a target on the Normandy at all times.

Because he was a dull character? Because there was so many things set up about him (he's a biotic, has issues with the alliance, Cerberus, his dad, Thane, Zaeed) but nothing comes out of any of it?

His "issues" were opinions which the only consequence would be interaction with those characters. His father wasn't a problem until he reads the email and tells you immediately after the fact. Dull? In two games Tali has revealed next to nothing about herself and acts like an encylopedia for things we can learn by reading the codex. She is of no consequence. Garrus had a few interesting things to say in ME1 in ME2 his story was bland and literally had nothing to add the squad dynamic just like Tali. Those are two paperthin  characters that have less personality than a robot introduced in the last few hours of the game. Now if a thing can be fleshed out and have more interesting things to say in 2 or 3 hours while two living characters bor you to death I think it says quite a bit about the quality of those characters.

I'd be interested to hear anyone actually make an argument about what makes Garrus and Tali compelling characters.

[Peer of the Empire]

Ignored Tali and Garrus since the first game.

Will be glad to be fighting with Zaeed.

[What a Succulent Ass]

I don't dislike Jacob, but he's the only character about whom I'm completely neutral. He's a bro if you can navigate Shep's sexytime voice and his standoffishness when speaking to him, but I rarely can. And his sudden antagonism toward Thane (amongst all the equally suspect crew) put a bad taste in my mouth, especially because I didn't particularly trust him either. Also didn't care much for his opinions. And between my canon vanguard Shepard and Jack, he was utterly redundant powerwise. Never used him.

Then I caught wind of his romance subplot.

O lawd bb jeezuz

Modifié par Random Jerkface, 29 janvier 2012 - 08:16 .

[naledgeborn]

I agree with this thread. Garrus, Liara, and Tali should die by fire. I'm glad this is the last game of the series so I don't have to put up with the bull**** fan pandering anymore.

They'd have been better off making 6 completely new squadmates.

[A. Lemon]

naledgeborn wrote...

I agree with this thread. Garrus, Liara, and Tali should die by fire. I'm glad this is the last game of the series so I don't have to put up with the bull**** fan pandering anymore.

They'd have been better off making 6 completely new squadmates.

Well, out of the 3, Liara is the most useful, being the new SB. I still think she shouldn't be a squadmate though (It makes far more sense for her to feed Shep info, or send his enemies false info).

The 3 of them could all be replaced by someone who's-

A. More integrated into the main plot, or-
B. Makes sense.

[KayFirefly]

android654 wrote...

This still doesn't adress why people didn't like Jacob . He's quite literally the only character in the squad that has zero liabilities by being on the ship. Everyone else has baggage that puts a target on the Normandy at all times.

1. His romance. I honestly tried to force one of my Femsheps though that one to see what would happen in ME3 and I just couldn't do it, it was so cringe-worthy. As most of my Sheps are female, just trying to get to know the guy was torture. The actual blame rests with the writer, Hale, and the voice director, but Jacob ends up getting the shaft for it.
2. His powers. Jacob was the least used squadmate from ME2 because he had the most useless powers. Pull, Incendiary Ammo, and Barrier... Those aren't helpful, compared to everyone else onboard that could be taken in his place. This would be okay if he had a ridiculous amount of health and could simply tank, like Grunt, but he doesn't. He's just not useful as a squadmate and that has nothing to do with his personality.
3. His personality: he's on a ship filled with psychotic murderers and broken characters. The environment makes him seem detached and, well... boring. Again, not his fault, but he just can't stand out among the others.

[android654]

A. Lemon wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

I agree with this thread. Garrus, Liara, and Tali should die by fire. I'm glad this is the last game of the series so I don't have to put up with the bull**** fan pandering anymore.

They'd have been better off making 6 completely new squadmates.

Well, out of the 3, Liara is the most useful, being the new SB. I still think she shouldn't be a squadmate though (It makes far more sense for her to feed Shep info, or send his enemies false info).

The 3 of them could all be replaced by someone who's-

A. More integrated into the main plot, or-
B. Makes sense.

Stop making sense.

[A. Lemon]

android654 wrote...

A. Lemon wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

I agree with this thread. Garrus, Liara, and Tali should die by fire. I'm glad this is the last game of the series so I don't have to put up with the bull**** fan pandering anymore.

They'd have been better off making 6 completely new squadmates.

Well, out of the 3, Liara is the most useful, being the new SB. I still think she shouldn't be a squadmate though (It makes far more sense for her to feed Shep info, or send his enemies false info).

The 3 of them could all be replaced by someone who's-

A. More integrated into the main plot, or-
B. Makes sense.

Stop making sense.

You're right. I'm sorry.

I should *roll up newspaper* myself.

[android654]

A. Lemon wrote...
You're right. I'm sorry.

I should *roll up newspaper* myself.

My nose was getting sore from that. Think I'll google pictures of bloody hotel rooms.

[MordinKrios]

A. Lemon wrote...

android654 wrote...

A. Lemon wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

I agree with this thread. Garrus, Liara, and Tali should die by fire. I'm glad this is the last game of the series so I don't have to put up with the bull**** fan pandering anymore.

They'd have been better off making 6 completely new squadmates.

Well, out of the 3, Liara is the most useful, being the new SB. I still think she shouldn't be a squadmate though (It makes far more sense for her to feed Shep info, or send his enemies false info).

The 3 of them could all be replaced by someone who's-

A. More integrated into the main plot, or-
B. Makes sense.

Stop making sense.

You're right. I'm sorry.

I should *roll up newspaper* myself.

 

Good to have ya back Lemon. Now stop making sense 

OT: Apart from being popular, Garrus and Tali have little reason to be in Shep's squad. I agree with Tali being a walking codex, thus why for me, I have barley used her. Someone who makes sense to be in the squad would have been much nicer. Or a new character. I don't like this BW thing of bringing back every single character we have been near in the last two games. For god's sake, I am not going to cry if i don't see Shiala again or anyone else I happened to cough near.

[Mechler]

naledgeborn wrote...

I agree with this thread. Garrus, Liara, and Tali should die by fire. I'm glad this is the last game of the series so I don't have to put up with the bull**** fan pandering anymore.

They'd have been better off making 6 completely new squadmates.

I'm not that raging against anyone. Just Jack. But it's true that I never understood all the ubver like fopr Tali and Garrus(Official Tali fan page has over ten thousand pages, while Kasumi is at 87, athough it's still pretty damned good for someone without dialogue wheels)

I'm not sure about the 6 completely new squadmate is a new idea. We have 3 new. the other six should be Kasumi, one ME2 squadie and one ME1 squadie. Likme forexample wrex and saaay Legion

[Silver77nz]

I get why they are bringing back the ME1 squad because those were the very 1st characters they wrote. I'm sure those characters are special to them seeing how it's the 1st ones they wrote.  Also why isn't Miranda an option at some point in the game to be a squad mate if you want to recruit her? Seeing how she was the one who was in charge of Lazurus Project and has connections TIM. I think that would make her important. I just wish Wrex was available

Modifié par Silverpearl1977, 29 janvier 2012 - 08:24 .

[naledgeborn]

Silverpearl1977 wrote...

I get why they are bringing back the ME1 squad because those were the very 1st characters they wrote. I'm sure those characters are special to them seeing how it's the 1st ones they wrote.  Also why isn't Miranda an option at some point in the game to be a squad mate if you want to recruit her? Seeing how she was the one who was in charge of Lazurus Project and has connections TIM. I think that would make her important. I just wish Wrex was available

Because we can't have reason around these parts. The paladin xenophiles need their fetish overdose so there's a human squadmate cutoff. Despite it making all the sense in the world and then some Miranda didn't make the cut. Lord forbid Liara, Tali, or Garrus get sidelined, BW fears the uproar. 

[android654]

naledgeborn wrote...

Silverpearl1977 wrote...

I get why they are bringing back the ME1 squad because those were the very 1st characters they wrote. I'm sure those characters are special to them seeing how it's the 1st ones they wrote.  Also why isn't Miranda an option at some point in the game to be a squad mate if you want to recruit her? Seeing how she was the one who was in charge of Lazurus Project and has connections TIM. I think that would make her important. I just wish Wrex was available

Because we can't have reason around these parts. The paladin xenophiles need their fetish overdose so there's a human squadmate cutoff. Despite it making all the sense in the world and then some Miranda didn't make the cut. Lord forbid Liara, Tali, or Garrus get sidelined, BW fears the uproar. 

To make the most sense, since SHepard is strictly Alliance in the beginning of the game, shouldn't the squard star out as exclusively human. I can't see Hackett or Anderson aproving the adding of 4 aliens to the crew and a cyborg.

[A. Lemon]

android654 wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Silverpearl1977 wrote...

I get why they are bringing back the ME1 squad because those were the very 1st characters they wrote. I'm sure those characters are special to them seeing how it's the 1st ones they wrote.  Also why isn't Miranda an option at some point in the game to be a squad mate if you want to recruit her? Seeing how she was the one who was in charge of Lazurus Project and has connections TIM. I think that would make her important. I just wish Wrex was available

Because we can't have reason around these parts. The paladin xenophiles need their fetish overdose so there's a human squadmate cutoff. Despite it making all the sense in the world and then some Miranda didn't make the cut. Lord forbid Liara, Tali, or Garrus get sidelined, BW fears the uproar. 

To make the most sense, since SHepard is strictly Alliance in the beginning of the game, shouldn't the squard star out as exclusively human. I can't see Hackett or Anderson aproving the adding of 4 aliens to the crew and a cyborg.

Well, there's the whole galactic apocalypse taking place.

I'd assume they're being a little lenient with standard protocol.