244 réponses à ce sujet

[Killjoy Cutter]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

My god... if you don;t want to play MP... then don't select the option that says Online... or are some gamer's so entitled that they feel like they should not have to read through a menu and select the mode they wish to play.

And never mind that MP is tied in with all the other crap...

if its crap, don't play it.  no one is holding a gun to your head....

I agree that it can be annoying but I always found that if I don't like a game, I play something else.  I know its crazy!

If it weren't part 3 of 3, of a series that started out with so much charm and promise, I'd simply shrug at what is clearly going to be just another extruded gaming product, and move along. 

[SnakeStrike8]

RolandX9 wrote...

the players who made that decision, and want Bioware to do the same. What's that? 99% of players chose Anderson for Councillor? Sorry, we need an Obstructive Bureaucrat in charge in ME3 -- Udina's the Councillor now.

This, to be fair, has an in-story justification. I haven't read the book that this comes out of, but people tell me that Anderson gets frustrated with all the political ****** and lets Udina take over so he can go back to his army days. And given what we know about the character (Anderson), it seems like a perfectly in-character action for him. And why not? Why should Shepard's decisions always be immutable? Why can't other characters make their own choices, such as in Anderson's case?

[Splinter Cell 108]

What worries me is that BioWare hasn't talked about certain aspects of the game and they have a tendency to stay quiet about things they don't want to say until the very end. This is something that bothers me a lot, especially when they haven't shown what has changed regarding to customization aspects (armor and weapons).

[Icinix]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

What worries me is that BioWare hasn't talked about certain aspects of the game and they have a tendency to stay quiet about things they don't want to say until the very end. This is something that bothers me a lot, especially when they haven't shown what has changed regarding to customization aspects (armor and weapons).

I'm hoping this is just because of all the people who were asked them to reveal nothing because of spoilers.

It does make it hard to judge a game when you can't see anything about it - but that said - demo soon covers that base.

Also - the whole marketing campagin is targeting new audiences, as such, rpg elements don't really market well. But agreed it would be nice to see more of those aspects though.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Icinix wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

What worries me is that BioWare hasn't talked about certain aspects of the game and they have a tendency to stay quiet about things they don't want to say until the very end. This is something that bothers me a lot, especially when they haven't shown what has changed regarding to customization aspects (armor and weapons).

I'm hoping this is just because of all the people who were asked them to reveal nothing because of spoilers.

It does make it hard to judge a game when you can't see anything about it - but that said - demo soon covers that base.

Also - the whole marketing campagin is targeting new audiences, as such, rpg elements don't really market well. But agreed it would be nice to see more of those aspects though.

Yes I hope its that too, but armor and weapons customization isn't something that I'd expect to have spoilers IMO which is what worries me. Now, there are still 6 weeks left, lets hope BioWare talks about that before they release the game.

I really wish BioWare would make some effort to reassure that our worst fears won't be realized but they haven't done a good job of doing that IMO. I'm pretty sure things will be fine, after all it is the last Mass Effect game they can't possibly hope to screw that up, even that would be too much for EA. 

[OMTING52601]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Anyone that uses the "but ME2" argument doesn't understand how trilogies work.  Most of the choices made even back in ME 1 were meant to come full circle in ME 3.  It doesn't make sense that they would put that stuff in the middle chapter not to mention it would have created way too many variables from a development standpoint to create more branching paths for ME 3 to have to deal with.  ME 2 had to keep thems{sic} reigned in tighter. *snip*

From a programming standpoint, you may be right about flags affecting middle game. From a writing standpoint, it's strictly outlined as a no-no. You don't drop plot lines you base the beginning of the story on in the middle and just do whatever. BEFORE you go nuts on me, I'm NOT being sh***y, nor am I trying to start anything. Imagine my words said with a robotic tone, there is no emotional content whatsoever. Just remarking on plot transition, especially in regard to direct effect storylines. Related character storylines are a whole other ball of wax (Indiana Jones is a good example - each movie features Indy, but they are all stand alone/no direct effect plots).

Segue

Earlier someone mentioned complaints having to be hand written and mailed. Yeah, the devs would see much less complaining, LOL, at least in writing. At the same time, the games wouldn't have nearly the market base with no internet AND if a game failed they would absolutely notice the hit on the bottom line. Back when we old folks had to write a letter to complain, in general, we didn't waste the stamp. We just didn't go back to/buy/use that company's product again. Simple ... And SO much easier on the blood pressure:P

[Massefeckt]

yoshibb wrote...

Game's not out yet guys. Can't judge it yet. We can judge it by the quality of ME1 and ME2 though, which I thought were two of the greatest games I've ever played. It's also the last game in Shep's story which means they no longer need to hold back because of consequences in the next game.

Your personal perfect story will never be achieved by Bioware. From the minute you saw Shepard staring out the window in ME1, you all had preconceived notions about what you wanted to happen to Shepard and how he/she developed. It's never going to be just what you wanted.

But until I see the Rachni queen standing there for both my renegade and paragon Shepard, I'm not going to judge it.

No the notions came from the choices Bioware gave you to choose from.

Tazzmission wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

If
the devs can't handle multiple different choices across several games,
they never sohuldn't have tried to do it and marketed it as such.
Close major decisions within a single game. Leave only 1-2 for hte sequel.

oh god stop with comments like that.

Yes god forbid we hold companies accountable for their actions.

If you make a game advertise it on certain points you can't be surprise when people are disappointed about those points not being there. As said if they couldn't keep up with all the plot points, why have them in the first place.

Having just read through the entire thread theres a few points to be made.

1. Innovation - Mass Effect 1 was pretty good on innovation, ME2 better control system in some ways but far less innovative than ME1. According to rumours and spoilers ME3 is less innovative. So the whole "Innovation is great and fun!" isn't a good defence of Bioware it's actually an attack. Implementing a GoW Horde and CO OP mode isn't innovative at all it's copying. Taking ME from it's origins and turning it more and more into a standard mainstream fps with a slightly more indepth story is the opposite of innovation so lets stop using that as an excuse.

Just an additional point here. I'm not bashing GoW I like the games and have just finished GoW3 and enjoyed it but I dont play ME for a GoW experience, I have GoW for that.

2. ME isn't old enough to have Old School fans, there may be Old School gamers(old buggers like me) but ME in human terms is still at that age where they are wondering what all those new hairs are about and why Boys/Girls are suddenly so interesting. People crying and whining about crying and whining need to understand the real old buggers like me have seen all this before when great companies are taken over and push for a more mainstream audience, it rarely ends well. So it's not about being angry, it's about being sad that another great company has decided to push along a mainstream, less innovative, same as every other company out there route.

3. Some one mentioned people don't have the right to complain and that we should all be grateful, that itself is a pretty bad attitude. Any paying customer has the right to complain about goods they buy if they don't feel they match up to what was advertised. Also Bioware aren't a charity they don't make games out of the goodness of their hearts as part of a non profit company so theres no need to be grateful. They are doing it for money and as such should be held up to the same standards as any other company.

All thats said I think most of it is a Bioware/EA problem rather than a ME one. Although I don't like alot of things that have been mentioned I'm expecting I will enjoy ME3 not as much as I hoped but enough for it to be a decent rather than great ending to the trilogy. But these overall problems with Bioware mean it's no longer a goto brand, I wont say "I'll NEVER buy a Bioware game again!" as thats stupid but I will wait for unbiased reviews(ie not the early ones) and wait a few months to see what others think before I even think of buying anymore of their games after ME3.

[Killjoy Cutter]

The customer is always the final judge.

[OMTING52601]

Massefeckt wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

 god stop with comments like that.

Yes god forbid we hold companies accountable for their actions.

You make a good point, though I'd argue that complaining on the internet likely will fail to produce the types of 'accountability' punishments *some* on BSN seem to want. Not being a jerk, just making an observation.

Massefeckt wrote...

If you make a game advertise it on certain points you can't be surprise when people are disappointed about those points not being there. As said if they couldn't keep up with all the plot points, why have them in the first place.

Having just read through the entire thread theres a few points to be made.

1. Innovation *snip* a standard mainstream fps *snip*

TPS, TPS, dear gods, if this is an FPS I'm horribly, unavoidably, and sadly screwed. If I can't see the lay of the land, I cannot compute, ROFL!

Massefeckt wrote...

2. *snip* People crying and whining about crying and whining need to understand the real old buggers like me have seen all this before when great companies are taken over and push for a more mainstream audience, it rarely ends well. *snip*

We have, but as you said, we've also seen many, many other companies try the exact same thing and fail again. I, personally, don't understand this failure on the part of businesses to understand the free market, but maybe it's like trickle down economics - it isn't 'real', it doesn't work, yet politicians and business people keep trying to clobber the rest of us over the head with it and, well, DEMAND it work. But if doesn't. ROFL, who knows? In short, business needs consumers, consumers need to want to consume. No consumers=no business.

Massefeckt wrote...
Some one mentioned people don't have the right to complain and that we should all be grateful, that itself is a pretty bad attitude. Any paying customer has the right to complain about goods they buy if they don't feel they match up to what was advertised. Also Bioware aren't a charity they don't make games out of the goodness of their hearts as part of a non profit company so theres no need to be grateful. They are doing it for money and as such should be held up to the same standards as any other company.

There are a very few human psychologies that are submissive/dmaged enough to actually be grateful for whatever scraps they are handed, regardless of the hand offering. Especially in a free-market driven, first world civilization. Obviously, if the majority of people had that mentality(be grateful for what you're given and shut your mouth) about 98.679% of the threads on BSN wouldn't exist. Just sayin'. As any entity selling a product, Bioware is betting capitol they'll be able to balance the needs of the many(core buyers) over the desires for expanding the product base. (IMO, they failed to do this once, and while I know the dev teams are different, the vast majority of buyers likely do not. They see the same company name on the label, they assume it's all the same folks doing the work. Nobody looks at a Ford car and thinks, "hell this one was made in Tennesse not Ohio, it's gonna be all messed up." They see Ford, they expect said car to be exactly the same as any other Ford, regardless of where it was made and by whom.)

The above, balancing core buyers against new, does not somehow exempt them from being subject to a desired standard. Though it seems like that's what some folks are suggesting- that just because they are trying new things doesn't give buyers a reason to show skepticism, even outright anger. I can understand their inference, though in the reality of the free market and profit-based business models, this isn't correct.

Still, there's nothing quite as much fun as watching the lovers/haters go at it on these forums and I mean that in all sincerity and without malice. I generally try to stay neutral, because logical is my thing, but that doesn't stop me from having reservations about the new product. Hopefully, I won't be as disappointed. Even if I am, then for myself, at least, I hope that I find some redeeming qualities and will be able to enjoy the product on some level.

I rage-quit and broke a controller with psychopAnders went Thedaliban on the Chantry. But I sure do love murder knifing him every, single, chance I get. And Varric+ anybody makes wandering around the never-changing streets of Kirkwall at least worth a couple hours of fun, fwiw, imo, ymmv.

[The Sapien]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

By the way, what is an "old school fan" for the ME series?

I think it means a very young player who grew up on the series.

[The Sapien]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

What worries me is that BioWare hasn't talked about certain aspects of the game and they have a tendency to stay quiet about things they don't want to say until the very end. This is something that bothers me a lot, especially when they haven't shown what has changed regarding to customization aspects (armor and weapons).

Agreed. It was even hinted at in ME2 several times. Anderson never wanted the job. Shep can't always get what he/she wants.

[aj2070]

Glad this post has come back up the thread list. I thought of something that I would say kind of validates or at least helps make the IGN author's point. I am talking about David Anderson's status. It appears that because the choice does not necessarily fit what Bioware needs, a player's choice at the end of Mass Effect/ beginning of Mass Effect 2 is irrelevant. Of course, I am sure we have not seen everyting but if this in fact the case, this is the kind of argument the IGN author is making about marketing choice then eliminating it when it does not fit game mechanics.

[scpulley]

I'm right there with you OP. I'm seriously starting to worry this is going to turn into another DA 2 train wreck of a story. I'm not saying it won't be good, but if they hose people's choices or take beloved characters you romanced and turn them into 1 mission cameo companions, it's going to really leave a bad taste in my mouth. ME has been a great series up to this point, the more I read however about how the squad is going to work the more I don't like it. They better not screw this up or I'm straight up going to boycott Bioware games for good. 2011 was a really bad year for them imo as it was the first time i saw them ****** a story in a game not once, but twice counting SWTOR. Please, PLEASE don't cave and dumb up the ME story by cutting corners in what choices will play through to the end of ME 3.

[DJBare]

Random citizen wrote...

Instead of just going with renegade or paragon balance, they should flag actions and dialogue choices according to a scale along with certain focus flags. Has the earlier play-through performed this and that especially characteristic action? Is there a pattern? Does this renegade have many "psychopath" points or is he just a badass? Does the paragon register as "naive" or is it just understanding but capable of making hard calls?

I agree with this, there were many moments I would crindge at my paragons responses, and my renegades actions were too extreme at times when there was no need, like the merc in the dantius towers, I'd have preferred the scene with my renegade shooting out the glass and hanging the merc over the edge, then a check, if he can get the right answer he pulls the merc back, if not he drops the merc, either way he gets renegade points.

Modifié par DJBare, 01 février 2012 - 06:40 .

[mjust]

Biotic Sage wrote...

 Gamers just need to learn to enjoy the choices within the confines of a single game, accept it for a stand alone affair, and then be happy about any carry-over choices that the developer IS able to implement into the future titles; think of them as a nice little bonus.

^This <- this and this^

Yeah, it was sort of a bummer for me that, suddenly, Udina was the councillor. But after reading Retribution it made a lot of sense to me story-wise. And even though i had just finished what will be my final playthrough of ME2 (where Anderson was councillor) before ME3, i accepted it because it made a lot of sense for the further evolvement of Anderson - and the story.

That is why i'm not afraid of what Bioware will change, keep, or make up. They have an amazing group of writers, and i'm sure that 95 % of the time they'll make somthing i won't **** about. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

mjust wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

 Gamers just need to learn to enjoy the choices within the confines of a single game, accept it for a stand alone affair, and then be happy about any carry-over choices that the developer IS able to implement into the future titles; think of them as a nice little bonus.

^This <- this and this^

Yeah, it was sort of a bummer for me that, suddenly, Udina was the councillor. But after reading Retribution it made a lot of sense to me story-wise. And even though i had just finished what will be my final playthrough of ME2 (where Anderson was councillor) before ME3, i accepted it because it made a lot of sense for the further evolvement of Anderson - and the story.

That is why i'm not afraid of what Bioware will change, keep, or make up. They have an amazing group of writers, and i'm sure that 95 % of the time they'll make somthing i won't **** about. 

No.

Outside media should never be necessary to follow the story arc inside the games. 

If each game were stand-alone and they'd never told us that choices carry over to subsequent games in the series, then far fewer players would be disappointed / upset by Bioware's failure to actually have many of those choices have a real and differentiating impact in subsequent games.

[Ricvenart]

Not bothered about the loss of the mako, it was a tedious feature made exponetially worse by tedious controls and all for what? a mission complete and more credits then you ever needed and not even the bonus of extra materials to carry into 2? Same goes for conversation skills rather then having a little box highlighted allowing to pull of things you need to quads or honest face to actually be able to pull it off, simplified maybe but not dumbed down, it's more intelligent and appliable to the character you play.

My only real concern regarding retconning anything is how much Liara is going to forced down our throats in 3 specially with the supposed personality transplant again and what other interesting characters will she take down in the process (the SB was so much more interesting as a keeper of balance then a manipulator and now shes already leaving the post where she could be far more useful then fighting directly to handcuff herself to shep and steal our genetics by "embracing enternity").

[Phaedon]

Lol? 2007 is old school?

Only on IGN.

And BSN.

[Il Divo]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

No.

Outside media should never be necessary to follow the story arc inside the games. 

If each game were stand-alone and they'd never told us that choices carry over to subsequent games in the series, then far fewer players would be disappointed / upset by Bioware's failure to actually have many of those choices have a real and differentiating impact in subsequent games.

Overall, I agree. I want ME3 to make sense just based on ME1 and ME2, not supplemental material.


That said, I don't think we even need Retribution to understand why this particular decision was altered. It was already established through ME1 and ME2 that Anderson really hates the idea of sitting behind a desk and playing politics, being a military man through and through. Regardless of my Shepard's motivations in placing him on the Council, he doesn't have to follow through with it. 

There are other, more important decisions, which I'm worried about Bioware rendering insignificant.  

[mybudgee]

Old school = anyone who played ME1 more than once all the way through and has gray facial hair(s) male or female
Also must have owned at least one run DMC album...
/thread

Modifié par mybudgee, 01 février 2012 - 05:34 .

[MnMH]

Phaedon wrote...

Lol? 2007 is old school?

Only on IGN.

And BSN.

"Old" is relative. I think the op means fans of the oringinal game--before all of the changes in ME2. 

[CannonO]

Old school means players who played ME1 before any ME2 reveals and has strong feelings for the game as it debuted.

[AlanC9]

CannonLars wrote...

Old school means players who played ME1 before any ME2 reveals and has strong feelings for the game as it debuted.

Does it still include players who thought that the changes made for ME2 were big improvements?

[CannonO]

AlanC9 wrote...

CannonLars wrote...

Old school means players who played ME1 before any ME2 reveals and has strong feelings for the game as it debuted.

Does it still include players who thought that the changes made for ME2 were big improvements?

Yes. It does not mean they are opposed to the newer entries. Old school may include both fans of ME1 who do not embrace the changes as well as fans of ME1 who have simply, and gladly, followed the games since ME1.

[mybudgee]

CannonLars, a.k.a Authorityontheterm"oldschool"lars