228 réponses à ce sujet

[alex90c]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

alex90c wrote...

most of the DA2 stuff is gonna be staying.

I have no reason to believe that.

Well they've said they're sticking to the DA2 direction, so I'd say it is safe to say DA3 will be more like DA2 and less like DA:O.

[Wolf]

alex90c wrote...

Well they've said they're sticking to the DA2 direction, so I'd say it is safe to say DA3 will be more like DA2 and less like DA:O.

Wrong.

What they have said is that they will be blending DA:O's most successful elements with DA II's most successful elements.

Getting the best of both essentially.

The only thing they said we are likely to not see a change in is the art style, that's it.

Modifié par Gaiden96, 08 février 2012 - 06:41 .

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

Gaiden96 wrote...

What they have said is that they will be blending DA:O's most successful elements with DA II's most successful elements.

So in other words, a game where you play a dwarf and do dwarfish things like organized crime, darkspawn-killing, political backstabbing, and unreliable narration. Awesome.

[alex90c]

Gaiden96 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Well they've said they're sticking to the DA2 direction, so I'd say it is safe to say DA3 will be more like DA2 and less like DA:O.

Wrong.

What they have said is that they will be blending DA:O's most successful elements with DA II's most successful elements.

Getting the best of both essentially.

The only thing they said we are likely to not see a change in is the art style, that's it.

"I think the big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this. I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins, but still has tons of room to grow and, frankly, a more viable future for the franchise..." (Laidlaw)

hm?

Modifié par alex90c, 08 février 2012 - 06:49 .

[Xewaka]

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...
So in other words, a game where you play a dwarf and do dwarfish things

You had me there.

[Tsuga C]

alex90c wrote...
hm?

Mr. Laidlaw, I believe, is one of the fellows who thought that those who didn't appreciate the new direction of DA2 weren't sophisticated enough to understand the virtues of consolization and the rejection of what had heretofore  been the much beloved memes or hallmarks of BioWare offerings such as the BG/BG2 and NWN1 series of games.  If my attribution of these attitudes to Mr. Laidlaw is correct, then you may "hm?" until you're blue in the face, but few who've been around these forums for a decade or more will grant either you or the apologist for EAWare much respect.  Mediocrity and those supportive of it simply don't rate well in our book.  We're holding out and hoping for better--much better, in fact.

[TEWR]

Mr. Laidlaw, I believe, is one of the fellows who thought that those who didn't appreciate the new direction of DA2 weren't sophisticated enough to understand the virtues of consolization and the rejection of what had heretofore been the much beloved memes or hallmarks of BioWare offerings such as the BG/BG2 and NWN1 series of games. If my attribution of these attitudes to Mr. Laidlaw is correct, then you may "hm?" until you're blue in the face, but few who've been around these forums for a decade or more will grant either you or the apologist for EAWare much respect. Mediocrity and those supportive of it simply don't rate well in our book. We're holding out and hoping for better--much better, in fact.

Fanciful wording aside, the person you quoted detests DAII with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

Just thought you should know, since it seems you basically called him a fan of mediocrity.

Also, Mike Laidlaw thought none of those things methinks.

Xewaka wrote...

Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut wrote...
So in other words, a game where you play a dwarf and do dwarfish things

You had me there.

He had me at Dwarf.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 08 février 2012 - 07:22 .

[Halarid]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Oh no, don't get me started on level scaling for monsters. I do miss games where a wrong turn could lead to a brutal death of my character. It is a video game afterall with the ability to reload so it's not the end of the world if a character dies here and there. Too many developers seem to want to hold the player's hand and walk them through the game the whole way. It's getting obnoxious, plus it seems a crutch in some games so that some developers don't have to think much about combat depth/style of play, importantance in leveling of character skills/abilities or strategy of attack.

Precisely.

Tsuga C wrote...
*crosses fingers and hopes*

They're showing some signs of--how to put this politely?--accepting that much of what they did in DA2 was less than desirable, so we might just have our way on this one.

It's encouraging (I feel all warm and fuzzy inside) to see so many people raising their voices against the abomination of level scaling. Awareness is the key.


Regarding what Bioware will or will not do with DA3.. I can't say I'm optimistic. They've never discussed level scaling on the forums or accepted any arguments concerning the absurdity of this mechanism. There were many threads about it, but the potato is too hot it seems. Not that I expect them to address it on this particular subforum - people with unregistered games are a scary entity, after all. 


There's another thing I'd like to point out. Bioware has kind of jumped on The Elder Scrolls bandwagon with level scaling without noticing that there's a fundamental difference between TES games and their own games.
The difference being - TES games are an open world sandbox focusing on exploration, Bioware's are not open in the slightest.


While I don't think TES games need level scaling (or any other game for that matter), I can certainly say that level scaling could be much more easily justified in an open-world game.

[Tsuga C]

Fanciful wording aside, the person you quoted detests DAII with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.  Just thought you should know, since it seems you basically called him a fan of mediocrity.

If that's the case, I humbly tip my hat to Alex90c.

Also, Mike Laidlaw thought none of those things methinks.

I distinctly remember those sorts of things being said by EAWare staffers and I'm 90% certain that Mr. Laidlaw was one of those who proffered such statements, but it might have been someone else.  If he didn't say or imply any such things, then I apologize and retract my statement with regards to him.

Modifié par Tsuga C, 08 février 2012 - 08:00 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

alex90c wrote...

"I think the big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this. I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins, but still has tons of room to grow and, frankly, a more viable future for the franchise..." (Laidlaw)

That was shortly after release.  He was still selling DA2.  We can't trust anything people say in the name of marketing.

Moreover, what he wants to keep isn't the only thing that matters.  Mike has bosses.

I'm of the opinion that DA2 did only one thing well, and that was the quest structure.  The PC voice, the paraphrase system, the fixed companion appearances, the new combat mechanics, the corridor level designs, the waved combat, the railroad narrative, the new art style, and the over-the-top animations are things I would like to discard.

[Mr Fixit]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Fanciful wording aside, the person you quoted detests DAII with the fiery passion of a thousand burning suns.

Which ones? Are we talking yellow dwarfs, blue supergiants? Are you referring to main sequence stars or not? You do understand there are vast differences between all those? Please clarify.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 08 février 2012 - 08:24 .

[Wolf]

alex90c wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Well they've said they're sticking to the DA2 direction, so I'd say it is safe to say DA3 will be more like DA2 and less like DA:O.

Wrong.

What they have said is that they will be blending DA:O's most successful elements with DA II's most successful elements.

Getting the best of both essentially.

The only thing they said we are likely to not see a change in is the art style, that's it.

"I think the big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this. I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins, but still has tons of room to grow and, frankly, a more viable future for the franchise..." (Laidlaw)

hm?

We all know how DA II was made out to be.

Things said during the time where they were marketing the game have little influence on things they have discussed in recent panels etc. 

I was reffering to something a bit more recent like the DA panel at NYCC.

[Wolf]

Tsuga C wrote...

Mr. Laidlaw, I believe, is one of the fellows who thought that those who didn't appreciate the new direction of DA2 weren't sophisticated enough to understand the virtues of consolization and the rejection of what had heretofore  been the much beloved memes or hallmarks of BioWare offerings such as the BG/BG2 and NWN1 series of games.  If my attribution of these attitudes to Mr. Laidlaw is correct, then you may "hm?" until you're blue in the face, but few who've been around these forums for a decade or more will grant either you or the apologist for EAWare much respect.  Mediocrity and those supportive of it simply don't rate well in our book.  We're holding out and hoping for better--much better, in fact.

You have been around for a decade or so correct? The BSN I mean?

[Zanallen]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

That was shortly after release.  He was still selling DA2.  We can't trust anything people say in the name of marketing.

Moreover, what he wants to keep isn't the only thing that matters.  Mike has bosses.

I'm of the opinion that DA2 did only one thing well, and that was the quest structure.  The PC voice, the paraphrase system, the fixed companion appearances, the new combat mechanics, the corridor level designs, the waved combat, the railroad narrative, the new art style, and the over-the-top animations are things I would like to discard.

From everything I have read on the subject:

Voiced PC - Keeping

Paraphrase System - Most likely staying with the voiced PC

Companion Appearances - DA2 model, though you will be able to adjust stats and possibly have a few more choices in outfits, but no mix and match full customization of appearance ala DAO

Combat mechanics - No real info, but I can't see them changing much from the faster combat

Corridor level design - They are supposedly hiring new enviroment designers, but no word on how the specific areas will be mapped out.

Waved combat - Keeping, but it will probably be less frequent or with better spawning

Railroaded narrative - No information

Artstyle - Keeping

Animations - No information, but I also don't see this changing much

[Tsuga C]

Gaiden96 wrote...

You have been around for a decade or so correct? The BSN I mean?

The BSN hasn't existed nearly so long, but I was on the old BioWare Forums as early as 2002, yes.  <----Is old fogey! 

[Mr Fixit]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I'm of the opinion that DA2 did only one thing well, and that was the quest structure.  The PC voice, the paraphrase system, the fixed companion appearances, the new combat mechanics, the corridor level designs, the waved combat, the railroad narrative, the new art style, and the over-the-top animations are things I would like to discard.

I am not entirely sure what you mean by quest structure.

I do agree with your assessment of railroaded narrative (it is truly an abomination); I can't remember the last time I felt so constrained and powerless in an RPG.

Jury is still out on the subject of PC voice and companion appearances. If the voice acting is very good and fine-tuned, I find it welcome, in all honesty. Anyway, I don't mind it either way. Same for "iconic looks". While I enjoy "mixing&matching" armor and equipment, it's not *that* important to me, though I would prefer multiple looks for each companion. Perhaps if various armors change the look in some way? Make it apparent that the companion in question wears a chain mail or leather, for example, while retaining the general idea behind their recognizable look. I would also like to add that the iconic looks in DA2 sorely needed more detail - companion outfits seemed very plain and not really memorable. Didn't that undermine the whole point? The only truly great look was Varric's, in my opinion.

Corridor levels need to go as soon as possible. This design decision is perhaps the most baffling. The other ones can at least be understood on some level, but what on Earth is the point of these incredibly constraining and narrow corridors. Were they afraid players would get lost in bigger spaces? I don't get it.

The new art style, on the other hand, kind of grew on me. Yeah, it is different than in Origins, and it's not really that distinctive, but it's nice. Now, if they could put some more work into it, flesh it out a bit, things would be even better.

Modifié par Mr Fixit, 08 février 2012 - 08:47 .

[Zanallen]

Filament wrote...

DG has mentioned being receptive to the idea of full text being implemented in some way, for whatever that's worth.

Hopefully through some sort of toggle, yes. Or just having the full text appear after hovering over the option for a second or two.

[Cody]

Tsuga C wrote...
I distinctly remember those sorts of things being said by EAWare staffers and I'm 90% certain that Mr. Laidlaw was one of those who proffered such statements, but it might have been someone else.  If he didn't say or imply any such things, then I apologize and retract my statement with regards to him.

Your thinking of Gaider.

[Cutlasskiwi]

alex90c wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Well they've said they're sticking to the DA2 direction, so I'd say it is safe to say DA3 will be more like DA2 and less like DA:O.

Wrong.

What they have said is that they will be blending DA:O's most successful elements with DA II's most successful elements.

Getting the best of both essentially.

The only thing they said we are likely to not see a change in is the art style, that's it.

"I think the big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this. I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins, but still has tons of room to grow and, frankly, a more viable future for the franchise..." (Laidlaw)

hm?

“What we need to do as developers is take that feedback from both sets of fans to heart and see about marrying that in future games in the Dragon Age franchise. I think that the team has actually got a great plan. I think the team is going to have some things that are going to surprise both sets of fans, both core fans and new fans with a marriage of these…the best from both games, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2. And we look forward more to talking about that in the future."

Ray Muzyka

Modifié par Cutlasskiwi, 08 février 2012 - 09:01 .

[alex90c]

Major things like full customisation, silent protagonist and the old art style aren't being reverted, and combat's staying mostly the same besides using waves more appropriately (and slowing it down a little), so it's still going to be more like DA2.

[Cody]

I liked the combat so I hope it stays.

[TEWR]

As I understood Mike Laidlaw's post on companion customization, they were going to allow us to equip anything we wanted on the companions with the possible caveat of a visual change added to the companions' unique appearances.

Which seems like enough of a compromise to me.

[Wolf]

Tsuga C wrote...

Gaiden96 wrote...

You have been around for a decade or so correct? The BSN I mean?

The BSN hasn't existed nearly so long, but I was on the old BioWare Forums as early as 2002, yes.  <----Is old fogey! 

Haha, I didn't know that actually.

Anyway, I know my posts sometimes seem like I'm a Bioware apologist but in truth it's just that given their reputation (and m own experience with their products) I trust that they will do what is right for their fans (not discarding the business side of things of course, this IS a business after all).

They have made terrific games in the past, and they can again, all they need is a bit of time to get their heads back in the game.

[Wolf]

alex90c wrote...

Major things like full customisation, silent protagonist and the old art style aren't being reverted, and combat's staying mostly the same besides using waves more appropriately (and slowing it down a little), so it's still going to be more like DA2.

They have said they intend to speed it down a notch and turn the battles into encounters where positioning, preparation and teamwork are key to surviving, not fights like in DA II where all you do is run in circles so potions can be available again so you can keep mashing a button to kill things.

So hopefully that means going back to the thinking process that made fights in DA:O so cool.

Customization is also improving in the future, there's a thread that I made to discuss this if you want to post and discuss your followers armors. 

This is it:
-http://social.biowar...5/index/8865112 

Modifié par Gaiden96, 08 février 2012 - 10:10 .