262 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Last Vizard wrote...
Hasn't practically ALL of Sheps body been rebuilt sythetically/enhanced cybernetics?

No.

[Poison_Berrie]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Pinkflu wrote...

I think we're all missing the vital fact, here. And that is that no matter who is tougher, Matriarch Aethyta would slap a singularity on both their asses. No-one can stand against Matriarch Aethyta.

No-one.

Chuck Norris

Aethyta would kick Chuck Norris in the Quads. 

Alliance marines aren't neccesarly completely unaugmented either. 
Besides their sparring and solely focused on boxing, it might be that Vega has the better techniques for boxing.

[BatmanPWNS]

Let him beat Shepard up. It's just a friendly. It doesn't matter who wins or loses.

[Homey C-Dawg]

I wouldn't anybody worry about Femshep. She can handle herself.

[Mike Shepard]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
Hasn't practically ALL of Sheps body been rebuilt sythetically/enhanced cybernetics?

No.

yeah, no. He has cybernetics in his spine, which allowed them to get his blood flowing again, he has synthetic skin (kind of like but not identical to a Terminator's skin) but his organs and the such are organic. Basically it's a Synthetic-Organic fusion. He has cybernetics in his face as well. I'd say 70% Organic/30% Synthetics, but the ratio could be different.

[Wynne]

clerkenwell wrote...

So what you're saying is, Vega's got reach, but Shepard's got flexibility?

Exactly! They should just skip right to the tiebreaker... 

Ryzaki wrote...

Kai Leng owning Shep makes sense though because he is just as if not more heavily augmented than Shep. 

Indeed. This sort of justifies Kai Leng's existence if he is meant to be a cybernetically enhanced foil to Shepard. It also makes the books look better (he seemed a little *too* badass in them, to me.)

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Shep is a ovwerblown Mary Sue.

Cybernetics are not magic.
Mass and volume do make a large difference.

Shep is not a Mary Sue.

 From Wikipedia: A Mary Sue is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfilment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional.  

Shep isn't perfect, unkillable, unbeatable, unchanged by the winds of fate... mass and volume do make a difference, but cybernetics--an old quote: "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Not quite true, but almost. Cerberus gave Shepard unbreakable bones, damage reduction, and medigel conduits in the skin--it may be freaky, but it makes Shep even more of a monster in combat than before (and Shepard was one of the galaxy's great fighters before, or so it would seem.) 

It's not that Shepard has no flaws and no drawbacks. ME3 is supposed to show Shepard's vulnerable side more. It's just that, in a mere *fist* fight, a simple barroom brawl kinda deal, it's extremely unlikely that someone without any technological enhancements would easily beat Shepard without an actual weapon (which can do way more damage than normal, fragile human fists.) If anyone would have a chance, though, it'd certainly be someone like Vega, since apparently he's aware of enhancements and is clever enough to aim for places like the nose which would have less protection.

Probably a smart fighter could gouge out Shepard's eyes if they got close enough to take Shep unawares, but that just emphasizes the fact that Shepard's limitations are more technological and mental than merely physical. That feels more right in a sci-fi universe anyway, if you ask me.

Don't let BSN make you get irritated with Shepard. Memetic badass or no, Shepard is still a character with humanizing vulnerabilities and flaws. Anyone in the ME universe could have enhancements; it's just that characters like Shep and Kai Leng have been close enough to Cerberus to get the scary-good ones. Normal people, like Vega presumably is, would just have to be smart enough to aim for the weak points. 

AlexXIV wrote...

marstor05 wrote...

in the red corner, petite little thing femshep, and in the blu corner huge man mountain able to crush a person with his bare hands and trained killer Vega.

Lets get ready to rumble / roflmao / take a reality check.

Size/muscle is not everything. That's a reality check for once. If you want to crush something you first have to hit it. Also if you are hard as a rock you don't need to be big. Even small stones can knock you out.

QFT.

The important thing in a fist fight is to hold your hands in such a way that you don't break the fragile bones inside them--and yes, they're extremely fragile for both sexes. This is why boxers wear gloves; why fist-fighters who hit someone seriously hard in real life tend to shake their hand and grimace afterwards. Even if you are able to hit hard, it HURTS and you can easily injure yourself--that perfect strike which won't injure your hand and will harm your opponent happens so rarely.

Some of us watch too many action movies; their ideas are not based on reality, but on very one-dimensional traditional thinking which has little to do with Mass Effect, if anything. Sure, size is a factor, but this is not Snooki going up against Vin Diesel here. If FemShep, essentially a cyborg enhanced with the heavy bone weave, heavy muscle weave, and heavy skin weave upgrades whose body contains medi-gel conduits in key places, who happens to be an equally well-trained and somewhat more experienced killer than Vega, took him on, then factor in her speed and dexterity and the fact that she is a smaller target combined with the fact that people tend to underestimate those "petite little things" and it's nowhere near so simple as you think. 

Skinny guys who get in fights could tell you this kind of thing--things that are big (not necessarily Vega, but potentially) tend to also be relatively slow and lumbering in comparison with their smaller counterparts. You see their hits coming even more so than you normally would, which means that you can duck out of the way and with leverage principles, quite possibly use their own strength and mass against them. It's being grappled that you want to avoid--if they get their hands on you in a way you're not prepared to deal with, THEN you're screwed because they can use that strength.

But when a guy throws himself at you with all of his weight behind him, and you are just that hair's breadth of a second too swift for him, all that considerable strength he was planning to use against you tends to carry him into a nice hard surface (and a vulnerable position) which can harm him far worse than a fist ever could. Smart fighters tend to use things other than fists to harm their opponents, which is why the Shepard/Vega fight is merely a friendly sparring match--if they wanted to do real harm, they'd use guns.

TL:DR? 
1. Bones on the hand break easily.
2. A head is a very hard object as it is designed not to break. 
3. Strength means nothing if you can't land a blow because you're too big and slow. 
4. In a fight, people telegraph their strikes. 
5. Size and strength mean less than the knowledge of how to use as many muscles in concert as you can, plus sheer ferocity, endurance, and the ability to ignore the brain's rational side.
6. Vega may be resistant to hitting a female, and a smaller person is a smaller target either way. 
7. Shepard is a motherf***ing cyborg, unbreakable bones, medi-gel conduits in the body, yadda yadda. 

But all that is essentially irrelevant, as I still maintain they should skip right to the tiebreaker. 

SykoWolf wrote...

Your forgetting, Vega is younger and fitter then shepard

You're forgetting that the lore of the universe is that humans live to be around 150. That means all Sheps should have some years to live before reaching their prime. Vega, too. 

[Gabey5]

Raizo wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Personally, I hope there's a way to just avoid that fight all together. I can't imagine my Shepard fist fighting with some Alliance soldier for anything really. Not the way my Shepard is anyway. 

Same here. My Shepard's have a very similar attitude to sparring that Ned Stark did in the "Game of Thrones" television series, they don't take part in mock fights/friendly sparring matches becuase they don't want anyone to know what they are capable of when the fighting gets real.

That does not really apply here. Ned and them are fighting with swords, the nearest equivelent would be if Shep and Vega were having a practice shootout

But Vega will know your capabilities anyway becuase he is a squadmate. As does Cerberus, Alliance, and your entire crew

so yeah

[nightcobra]

Gabey5 wrote...

Raizo wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Personally, I hope there's a way to just avoid that fight all together. I can't imagine my Shepard fist fighting with some Alliance soldier for anything really. Not the way my Shepard is anyway. 

Same here. My Shepard's have a very similar attitude to sparring that Ned Stark did in the "Game of Thrones" television series, they don't take part in mock fights/friendly sparring matches becuase they don't want anyone to know what they are capable of when the fighting gets real.

That does not really apply here. Ned and them are fighting with swords, the nearest equivelent would be if Shep and Vega were having a practice shootout

But Vega will know your capabilities anyway becuase he is a squadmate. As does Cerberus, Alliance, and your entire crew

so yeah

rather than assessing physical abilities i think these sparring matches only serve for the squadmates to bond and understand each other by trading blows.

reminds me of this actually (i can see diana the reporter doing a vlog on their sparring match:whistle:)


 

[fredward55]

Wynne wrote...

clerkenwell wrote...

So what you're saying is, Vega's got reach, but Shepard's got flexibility?

Exactly! They should just skip right to the tiebreaker... 

Ryzaki wrote...

Kai Leng owning Shep makes sense though because he is just as if not more heavily augmented than Shep. 

Indeed. This sort of justifies Kai Leng's existence if he is meant to be a cybernetically enhanced foil to Shepard. It also makes the books look better (he seemed a little *too* badass in them, to me.)

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Shep is a ovwerblown Mary Sue.

Cybernetics are not magic.
Mass and volume do make a large difference.

Shep is not a Mary Sue.

 From Wikipedia: A Mary Sue is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfilment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional.  

Shep isn't perfect, unkillable, unbeatable, unchanged by the winds of fate... mass and volume do make a difference, but cybernetics--an old quote: "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Not quite true, but almost. Cerberus gave Shepard unbreakable bones, damage reduction, and medigel conduits in the skin--it may be freaky, but it makes Shep even more of a monster in combat than before (and Shepard was one of the galaxy's great fighters before, or so it would seem.) 

It's not that Shepard has no flaws and no drawbacks. ME3 is supposed to show Shepard's vulnerable side more. It's just that, in a mere *fist* fight, a simple barroom brawl kinda deal, it's extremely unlikely that someone without any technological enhancements would easily beat Shepard without an actual weapon (which can do way more damage than normal, fragile human fists.) If anyone would have a chance, though, it'd certainly be someone like Vega, since apparently he's aware of enhancements and is clever enough to aim for places like the nose which would have less protection.

Probably a smart fighter could gouge out Shepard's eyes if they got close enough to take Shep unawares, but that just emphasizes the fact that Shepard's limitations are more technological and mental than merely physical. That feels more right in a sci-fi universe anyway, if you ask me.

Don't let BSN make you get irritated with Shepard. Memetic badass or no, Shepard is still a character with humanizing vulnerabilities and flaws. Anyone in the ME universe could have enhancements; it's just that characters like Shep and Kai Leng have been close enough to Cerberus to get the scary-good ones. Normal people, like Vega presumably is, would just have to be smart enough to aim for the weak points. 

AlexXIV wrote...

marstor05 wrote...

in the red corner, petite little thing femshep, and in the blu corner huge man mountain able to crush a person with his bare hands and trained killer Vega.

Lets get ready to rumble / roflmao / take a reality check.

Size/muscle is not everything. That's a reality check for once. If you want to crush something you first have to hit it. Also if you are hard as a rock you don't need to be big. Even small stones can knock you out.

QFT.

The important thing in a fist fight is to hold your hands in such a way that you don't break the fragile bones inside them--and yes, they're extremely fragile for both sexes. This is why boxers wear gloves; why fist-fighters who hit someone seriously hard in real life tend to shake their hand and grimace afterwards. Even if you are able to hit hard, it HURTS and you can easily injure yourself--that perfect strike which won't injure your hand and will harm your opponent happens so rarely.

Some of us watch too many action movies; their ideas are not based on reality, but on very one-dimensional traditional thinking which has little to do with Mass Effect, if anything. Sure, size is a factor, but this is not Snooki going up against Vin Diesel here. If FemShep, essentially a cyborg enhanced with the heavy bone weave, heavy muscle weave, and heavy skin weave upgrades whose body contains medi-gel conduits in key places, who happens to be an equally well-trained and somewhat more experienced killer than Vega, took him on, then factor in her speed and dexterity and the fact that she is a smaller target combined with the fact that people tend to underestimate those "petite little things" and it's nowhere near so simple as you think. 

Skinny guys who get in fights could tell you this kind of thing--things that are big (not necessarily Vega, but potentially) tend to also be relatively slow and lumbering in comparison with their smaller counterparts. You see their hits coming even more so than you normally would, which means that you can duck out of the way and with leverage principles, quite possibly use their own strength and mass against them. It's being grappled that you want to avoid--if they get their hands on you in a way you're not prepared to deal with, THEN you're screwed because they can use that strength.

But when a guy throws himself at you with all of his weight behind him, and you are just that hair's breadth of a second too swift for him, all that considerable strength he was planning to use against you tends to carry him into a nice hard surface (and a vulnerable position) which can harm him far worse than a fist ever could. Smart fighters tend to use things other than fists to harm their opponents, which is why the Shepard/Vega fight is merely a friendly sparring match--if they wanted to do real harm, they'd use guns.

TL:DR? 
1. Bones on the hand break easily.
2. A head is a very hard object as it is designed not to break. 
3. Strength means nothing if you can't land a blow because you're too big and slow. 
4. In a fight, people telegraph their strikes. 
5. Size and strength mean less than the knowledge of how to use as many muscles in concert as you can, plus sheer ferocity, endurance, and the ability to ignore the brain's rational side.
6. Vega may be resistant to hitting a female, and a smaller person is a smaller target either way. 
7. Shepard is a motherf***ing cyborg, unbreakable bones, medi-gel conduits in the body, yadda yadda. 

But all that is essentially irrelevant, as I still maintain they should skip right to the tiebreaker. 

SykoWolf wrote...

Your forgetting, Vega is younger and fitter then shepard

You're forgetting that the lore of the universe is that humans live to be around 150. That means all Sheps should have some years to live before reaching their prime. Vega, too. 

I like your post

[Ghost-621]

andy69156915 wrote...

eqzitara wrote...

packardbell wrote...

Renegade option is probably to kick the crap out of him.

shoot him in the knee.


I wonder if he will box fem shepard lol.
(Don't give me that feminist crap) He's got at least 80pounds on her. I honestly don't believe she would be consious after one blow. Hes got more muscle in his arm then her whole body.

You're talking about someone who has bones that have been super reinforced with very strong synthetic lacing, has artificial super fiber weave muscles added directly to the real muscles for super strength and endurance , and has skin that has super strong micro fibers that make the skin significantly BULLET PROOF.

How do I know this?

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Research

Heavy Bone Weave (Skeletal Lattice)
By reinforcing the skeleton with a synthetic weave, bones can be made
almost unbreakable. In the event of bone trauma, medi-gel conduits
allow for bone regenerations in a matter of days.


Heavy Muscle Weave (Microfiber Weave)
Perforating the muscles with micro-fibers increases overall strength
and decreases the potential for muscle damage from exertion.


Heavy Skin Weave (Lattice Shunting)
Strong synthetic fibers can be woven through the skin, dramatically
reducing damage taken from most attacks. These fibers also act as a
medi-gel conduit, improving healing.

The most he could cause is a minor nose bleed. If he punches too hard, a broken hand would be his reward.

I get the feeling that bioware will just "forget" this too.

[Shelondias]

This reminds me of the paragon interrupt people saw in the me2 trailer where you stop Miranda from shooting someone.
"Why does Shepard look like he's begging!? MY SHEPARD DON'T BEG! etc

[atheelogos]

hangmans tree wrote...

Man, too many give too much credit to cybernetics.
They are there to keep Shep from falling apart in the first place.

No the Cebernetics from the lazerus project helped put him back together. The upgrades you get later are for enchacement only.

[atheelogos]

Last Vizard wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

eqzitara wrote...

packardbell wrote...

Renegade option is probably to kick the crap out of him.

shoot him in the knee.


I wonder if he will box fem shepard lol.
(Don't give me that feminist crap) He's got at least 80pounds on her. I honestly don't believe she would be consious after one blow. Hes got more muscle in his arm then her whole body.

You're talking about someone who has bones that have been super reinforced with very strong synthetic lacing, has artificial super fiber weave muscles added directly to the real muscles for super strength and endurance , and has skin that has super strong micro fibers that make the skin significantly BULLET PROOF.

How do I know this?

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Research

Heavy Bone Weave (Skeletal Lattice)
By reinforcing the skeleton with a synthetic weave, bones can be made
almost unbreakable. In the event of bone trauma, medi-gel conduits
allow for bone regenerations in a matter of days.


Heavy Muscle Weave (Microfiber Weave)
Perforating the muscles with micro-fibers increases overall strength
and decreases the potential for muscle damage from exertion.


Heavy Skin Weave (Lattice Shunting)
Strong synthetic fibers can be woven through the skin, dramatically
reducing damage taken from most attacks. These fibers also act as a
medi-gel conduit, improving healing.

The most he could cause is a minor nose bleed. If he punches too hard, a broken hand would be his reward.

A Krogan couldn't overpower CyborgShep.

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. 1000 pounds of Krogan mass running toward u couldn't be stopped by any human without the help of tech.