53 réponses à ce sujet

[toronto13]

91hrs gameplay so far and it is pure joy,this is the best game ever..........everything is perfect(for me at least),characters in DAO are unforgettable,world and places in Ferelden are beautiful,codex is amazing and the story great,what more should I want from game.Main problem is that after playing games like DAO it is allmost impossible to play other games,after this one your expectations from games and what should they ofer is even biger.

[Jonnybear84]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Astorax wrote...

Keep the flames out of the discussion please. Thanks.

Who died and made you boss?

Just thought I'd pick up on this because it made me lol and pointed out yet another flaw with this social site at the same time, Ulrik, scroll down to the bottom and look at the list of user names that are listed as Moderators. the flaw being that it isnt immeadiately obvious who the Mods are when they post and as seen above they can be quite easily mistaken for regular posters

[bluedevil99]

Interesting. I was a pretty hardcore BG fan, thought NWN was pretty good but certainly not great, and was absolutely blown away by DA:O. With the exception of portions of Morrowing and Fallout 3, it's the first game to recreate the bittersweet "holy crap this is the best RPG I will ever see" feeling I got after finishing BG2.



On a separate note, as a Ph.D. economist, I really, really wish people would not hate DLC on general principle. In the last 10 years we've seen a rise in MMORPGs and a marked decline in quality SP RPGs. The reason is purely economics: with similar development costs, MMORPGs offer a steady revenue stream and much less risk (ask yourself how a developer who's worked on a game for four years feels when it becomes clear the game will be released during a deep recession). Paid DLC is a key factor in keeping the SP model competitive with MMOs. So before you preach against it, ask yourself whether you want still more WoW clones and even fewer games like Dragon Age. Just one man's opinion.

[chaosapiant]

It wasn't my intention to start a flame war about the difference in specializations and classes. Personally, I LIKE the sytem. It's not as deep and 2nd edition ADnD, but it's superb for a computer game. And every single skill seems to have a use that a strategy can be built around, as opposed to a handful of throwaway spells and skills. Everything seems useful. I've also read both Dragon Age novels, so I'm also very much in love with the lore of the game. Before DAO game out, people complained that "they dont' make 'em like they used to", myself being one of the complainers. This game is how they used to make games. This is what I've been waiting for. And i'm excited about DLC, and i'm excited that they released a tool set. This game is all the best parts of Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and the Elder Scrolls series all in one game.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

That's funny. Baldur's Gate series didn't need "another 5 years of development time". Nor did it need a lot of patching and tweaking.



*sigh* Its all about mass producing things as quickly as possible these days, adding things you wanted in the game later - for a price - as DLC, instead of taking the time to leave a game in development for the time it needs. Of course the publishers love this idea since it makes much more money. What's so sad is that the customers are accepting of it, heck, even fanboyesquely standing up and defending it!

[chaosapiant]

With all do respect, they announced DA over five years ago, I wouldn't exactly call that rushing. I will gladly pay for any DLC and expansion pack so long as it keeps good single player games alive. It sucks that it's come to this, but if this is what it takes to keep these games going instead of MMOs, then so be it. I bought both edition of The Witcher on the same principle.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

chaosapiant wrote...

With all do respect, they announced DA over five years ago, I wouldn't exactly call that rushing. I will gladly pay for any DLC and expansion pack so long as it keeps good single player games alive. It sucks that it's come to this, but if this is what it takes to keep these games going instead of MMOs, then so be it. I bought both edition of The Witcher on the same principle.

That's hardly a reedeming factor, now is it? And if DLC is what keeps the non-monthly fee gaming alive, I wonder how the heck the gaming industry has managed to survive up till this point!

I bet the gaming industry "needs" the DLC money just about as much as the artists "need" the money they "lose" when people pirate their music.*

*not that I condone such behavoir.

[LFDog]

I like both.



I just ordered a platinum set of the Balder's Gate series as I couldn't seem to find my discs. I plan to re-play the series.

[chaosapiant]

In respect to either case, I will say the one thing I really miss is boxed expansion packs. There is nothing cooler than looking forward to opening a shiny new box with 20-40 more hours of your favorite game.

[Ulrik the Slayer]

chaosapiant wrote...

In respect to either case, I will say the one thing I really miss is boxed expansion packs. There is nothing cooler than looking forward to opening a shiny new box with 20-40 more hours of your favorite game.

Y'know what I miss? Them huge manuals! Seriously, they were like a complete bible of the game. These days you just get the generic controller layout/keybord layout, and if you're lucky, some basic concepts of the game.

...what was I talking about? Oh yeah! Damn whippersnappers, git of mah lawn. *waves cane around*

Modifié par Ulrik the Slayer, 24 novembre 2009 - 12:16 .

[pokemaughan]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

If anything, DA:O makes me play Baldur's Gate series more. To relive the glory days of BioWare before they were bought up by EA. I hate EA, they ruin everything they touch, and DA:O proved everything I feared would come out of that deal with the devil, sadly:

A so-so game, ready to be ****d out for cheap DLC to bring in the cash.

So-so-

I do not understand 

[Travyplx]

For me Neverwinter Nights was always my big thing, played NWN1 right up until DAO came out when I wanted some single player gaming. But DAO has captured my heart

[NobillyT]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
Y'know what I miss? Them huge manuals! Seriously, they were like a complete bible of the game. These days you just get the generic controller layout/keybord layout, and if you're lucky, some basic concepts of the game.

+1, I loved reading those big instuction books.

Also, I remember when I played KOTOR back in '03 (Yeah, I had an XBOX...I was young and stupid...now I'm just old and stupid) I thought, "Oh how cool! Everything in this game has VO!"

Then I thought for a few minutes (I'm slow, OK?!?!) and realized how this meant that now the masses would come to expect everything said in a game to be VO, and that this would ultimately result in more shallow gameplay. Now, separate from the need to make graphics spectacular, studios need to hire voice talent for every word of dialogue. This also puts a constraint of the writers (for numerous reason like the scheduling of recording sessions, each word cost more money, etc., etc.) , and rewriting certain dialogues later in development for whatever reason can become unfeasible.

Oh well, there are still some good indie studios left. Now, don't get me wrong, I am enjoying DA:O for the most part...just not as much as I enjoyed Fallout (1 and 2, NOT3...especially 1...2 felt kinda rushed) and the BG series. Yeah...I'm a pretentious, nostalgic twit.

tl;dr: More and more precious zots are being spent on graphics, cinematic storytelling, and voice talent, and less and less on the actual gameplay...and I'm a pretentious, nostalgic twit.

[NobillyT]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

And the effort that went into making manuals that were essentially game-guides has long been dead, as devs/publishers have realized that there is almost no return for any of the said effort other than the appreciation of a minority of gamers.

Just because none of the major game developers are doing it anymore doesn't mean I have to like it. And  I don't think me missing such manuals makes me an ignoramus either (Mind you, I am in fact an ignoramus, but for different reasons altogether).

Game-guides? I'm thumbing through the ToEE manual (yeah, I'm one of the weirdos who likes that game...excellent combat engine), 166 pages and 95% of it is pure game mechanics...a nerd's wet-dream, it is.

Modifié par NobillyT, 24 novembre 2009 - 01:00 .

[CBGB]

Count me as another BG fan who is unbelievably happy with Dragon Age. It's incredibly good.

[quote]bluedevil99 wrote...
 I was a pretty hardcore BG fan, thought NWN was pretty good but certainly not great, and was absolutely blown away by DA:O. With the exception of portions of Morrowing and Fallout 3, it's the first game to recreate the bittersweet "holy crap this is the best RPG I will ever see" feeling I got after finishing BG2.[quote]

I feel the same way (though I haven't tried Morrowind or F3).


[quote]
On a separate note, as a Ph.D. economist, I really, really wish people would not hate DLC on general principle. In the last 10 years we've seen a rise in MMORPGs and a marked decline in quality SP RPGs. The reason is purely economics: with similar development costs, MMORPGs offer a steady revenue stream and much less risk.[/quote]

I don't hate DLC's, and I'm happy it's an option for DA. But I see a different reason for the 'marked decline in quality SP RPG's': lack of story content.

Oblivion was touted as the potential savior of SP RPGs, but it wasn't for players like me. It was so oriented toward "open-ended" play that it had an anemic main story (possible to finish in under an hour, I believe), and minimal character development. NPC's were wooden dolls.

Dragon Age, by contrast, puts the story front and center. The world depends on you, not you and eight million other players. You can choose different paths to the end, but as with any good story, there's a tide of events that sweep you in a particular direction. That doesn't mean lack of choice - DA is rich with choice - but it does mean some things are fated.

Here's hoping we get more RPG's like DA, from companies who aren't afraid of story.

[chaosapiant]

I agree with Ulrik on the game manuals. The game manual was what I "did" when I wasn't playing the game. And game technology may have gotten more sophisticated, but game "play" has gotten less so. The Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 manual are still the best as far as I'm concerned, and I also LOVED the original spiral bound manual that came with NWN. NWN 2's manual was pretty good as well, only the smaller dvd sized boxes means smaller manuals. Sigh....that's why I buy strategy guides now.

[Kaosgirl]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

Bibdy wrote...

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

If anything, DA:O makes me play Baldur's Gate series more. To relive the glory days of BioWare before they were bought up by EA. I hate EA, they ruin everything they touch, and DA:O proved everything I feared would come out of that deal with the devil, sadly:

A so-so game, ready to be ****d out for cheap DLC to bring in the cash.

And how about the actual game itself? Have you played it? Or are you just here to ****** and moan about DLC that isn't mandatory to buy and download?

Would I actually be talking as if I have played the game if I haven't?

It's been known to happen.  

[DMTyrisis]

Well, I never played BG 1 or 2. i did play NWN forever though. It was a great game, and I am glad to have DA:O. I also look forward to all the DLC they can throw my way. I would gladly pay $5 or $7 for a DLC that lasts a couple hours. You pay more than that for a movie that you see once, and then it is gone. DLC you can play over and over on multiple toons. Bioware ROCKS, and I applaud EA for being a successful business in this economic climate.

[AngelofDeth99]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...

If anything, DA:O makes me play Baldur's Gate series more. To relive the glory days of BioWare before they were bought up by EA. I hate EA, they ruin everything they touch, and DA:O proved everything I feared would come out of that deal with the devil, sadly:

A so-so game, ready to be ****d out for cheap DLC to bring in the cash.

If BG was BW glory days, how could EA have had any part in the downfall? They have only been involved with BW since 2007...

[Sarim Rune Prime]

The basis of some argument against DLC seems to be that it makes the game somehow incomplete? That's complete garbage. If you could not complete the game without purchasing the DLC then I would agree.



But seriously, I cannot get the big deal. Buy them or don't. Why are people crying over them? They add minor content and some loot. Big whup. If you like extra loot, then buy them.



DLC are a new business model which has proven itself to be highly viable. Why would you dis Bioware just for doing this.



And as to the argument that EA has destroyed this game...seriously? A) this is the exact same style of game that Bioware consistently puts out. They have a formula and they stick to it. Living in Edmonton and having friends in Bioware, the level of EA's evil reign isn't quite as bad as some people seem to think. Bioware makes the game. EA wants the game to make money. If what Bioware does makes EA make money...then everybody wins, including YOU the damn players. EA doesn't have a magic wand that makes games bad. That's such nonsense.

[Dex1701]

Ulrik the Slayer wrote...
Use it on regular basis. For the heck of it, I used Blood Sacrifice on both Wynne and Alistair to see if they would react.

Nope. Nada. Zippety-doodle. Nothing.

Can you give some examples of the BG games doing this type of thing?  Something like a conversation being triggered by a certain spell being used in combat?

Modifié par Dex1701, 24 novembre 2009 - 01:35 .

[DariusKalera]

I think BG1 and 2 were far more in depth that what DAO is. I do greatly enjoy this game but certain aspects of it are well, annoying. I really think that Bioware should have avoided all the references to other fantasy "universes".

[bclagge]

I don't play BG anymore because I have a fancy video card that needs it's legs stretched.  I don't play 2d RPGs anymore, not to mention that my 24" monitor would look a little pixelated by BG's 1024x768 max resolution (iirc).  I sold it on Ebay a few years back along with NWN and I'm sure both games have brought someone else hours upon hours of enjoyment just as they did for me.

*sigh* Its all about mass producing things as quickly as possible these days, adding things you wanted in the game later - for a price - as DLC, instead of taking the time to leave a game in development for the time it needs. Of course the publishers love this idea since it makes much more money. What's so sad is that the customers are accepting of it, heck, even fanboyesquely standing up and defending it!

Have you any idea what level of work goes into making just one of the maps that you see in this game?  Each map/area has a detailed 3d terrain.  There are 3d models/meshes scattered all over, and there has to be many of them to reduce repitition.  There are HD textures galore, which often also contain specular maps and normal maps that have to then be combined in a complicated manner to give the material the correct properties.  There are triggers and events and emitters - which can be very complicated.  Each of the character/monster models has HD textures as well, not to mention skeletal animations.  Voice acting, facial movements, cinematics, etc, etc, etc.

Baldurs Gate:  Each map is a 2 dimensional picture.  Characters and monsters are sprites.  SPRITES!!  Limited voice acting.  Cinematics only at the beginning of major chapters, iirc.

There's just no comparison of the degree of difficulty and man hours in producing content for the two games.  So unless you want to pay $200 for a game instead of $60, you should just be happy with how well polished games look and feel these days even if there is less actual play time.