3345 réponses à ce sujet

[Zandilar]

misoretu9 wrote...

To tell the truth it looks like she was "turned" into lesbian option in the last moment. Before that delay in release Bioware stated that there would be no gay romances. Only just then they changed their minds. Propably she (and Steve) was supposed to be a minor character a'la Ken and Gabby.

These things really aren't just done at the last minute. My understanding of the way voice acting works is that they try to get the actor to do all their lines in as few sessions as possible. Calling back actors for a handful of lines is not cost effective.

Plus it's still possible that Samantha was meant to be lesbian from the get go, just not a potential LI.

Unfortunately, it looks like they didn't care to put much effort into "adjusting" her, unlike with Steve. Apparently, they only changed last conversation and added tasteless sex scene (since absolutely nothing before that point suggests any romantic notions), while Steve got complete makeover and huge additional content.

I still have mixed feelings about it. It is awkward. However, the other way to view that scene is that Samantha had given hints about her sexuality that Shepard may or may not have picked up. Both male and female Shepards can tell Sam that the shower is an option, and in both cases it's a barely masked pick up (I'm really not sure how Shepard could innocently offer a shower in their personal shower on a military vessel. It's just shouldn't be done, as it threatens the chain of command by giving preferential treatment etc etc). Samantha only rejects male Shepard.

They're both adults, and the world is about to end. It could be that both decided the sezie the opportunity to make an intimate connection with someone they liked.

But that's the usual way. They are so brave for adding gay male options what's in other games for years, and almost no one commenting Bioware's "inclusive" stance pay attention to treatment of lesbians. But in most people's eyes same sex content = gay males, lesbians are just male fantasy so why they should care too much about it, it's not the real deal like gay men are...

I like the people in the Fight for the Love thread, they're really a great bunch. However, the bias in that thread is very clear. Liara/Sam talk gets overwhelmed by Kaiden/Steve talk. The half hearted explanation for this is that Liara has her own thread that F!Shep players are welcome in (unlike male Kaidenmancers in the Kaiden thread).

BTW, speaking about "turning" characters orientation. I don't remember even one case when straight character was turned bi. It was always simply assumed that they were straight since they were not romance options for same sex, not that they said that they are straigth.

When it comes to Traynor, it is showed that she's ony interested in women. Although indeed even without that there are so many straight options that it simply wouldn't be fair, or rather would be even less fair then what we've got.

While you and I might make that distinction, other people see anyone's sexuality as straight until proven otherwise. For example, in Anders's case, for example, he never showed an interest in males in DA:A. You and I might say, "well he was always bisexual, he just never said so." Others would say, "He never mentioned being attracted to guys, but spoke about women all the time, therefore he was straight and changing his sexuality in DA2 was clearly pandering to the homosexuals."

Fan fiction writers change character's sexuality all the time, usually from straight to either bi or gay in the case of slash fiction (which is mostly what I read, well femslash anyway). I'm sure there's examples of it going the other way, but probably isn't as common (given the ubiquitous nature of heterosexuality, there's plenty of het characters going around that they don't need to make non-straight characters gay to fill a need for representation).

So yeah, I agree. They shouldn't make Traynor bisexual just to pander to male Anglophiles! 

Modifié par Zandilar, 31 mars 2012 - 11:12 .

[MugenJustice]

So I just started a trilogy run. THE THINGS I DO FOR YOU, TRAYNOR.

[draken-heart]

Zandilar wrote...

misoretu9 wrote...

To tell the truth it looks like she was "turned" into lesbian option in the last moment. Before that delay in release Bioware stated that there would be no gay romances. Only just then they changed their minds. Propably she (and Steve) was supposed to be a minor character a'la Ken and Gabby.

These things really aren't just done at the last minute. My understanding of the way voice acting works is that they try to get the actor to do all their lines in as few sessions as possible. Calling back actors for a handful of lines is not cost effective.

Plus it's still possible that Samantha was meant to be lesbian from the get go, just not a potential LI.

Unfortunately, it looks like they didn't care to put much effort into "adjusting" her, unlike with Steve. Apparently, they only changed last conversation and added tasteless sex scene (since absolutely nothing before that point suggests any romantic notions), while Steve got complete makeover and huge additional content.

I still have mixed feelings about it. It is awkward. However, the other way to view that scene is that Samantha had given hints about her sexuality that Shepard may or may not have picked up. Both male and female Shepards can tell Sam that the shower is an option, and in both cases it's a barely masked pick up (I'm really not sure how Shepard could innocently offer a shower in their personal shower on a military vessel. It's just shouldn't be done, as it threatens the chain of command by giving preferential treatment etc etc). Samantha only rejects male Shepard.

They're both adults, and the world is about to end. It could be that both decided the sezie the opportunity to make an intimate connection with someone they liked.

But that's the usual way. They are so brave for adding gay male options what's in other games for years, and almost no one commenting Bioware's "inclusive" stance pay attention to treatment of lesbians. But in most people's eyes same sex content = gay males, lesbians are just male fantasy so why they should care too much about it, it's not the real deal like gay men are...

I like the people in the Fight for the Love thread, they're really a great bunch. However, the bias in that thread is very clear. Liara/Sam talk gets overwhelmed by Kaiden/Steve talk. The half hearted explanation for this is that Liara has her own thread that F!Shep players are welcome in (unlike male Kaidenmancers in the Kaiden thread).

BTW, speaking about "turning" characters orientation. I don't remember even one case when straight character was turned bi. It was always simply assumed that they were straight since they were not romance options for same sex, not that they said that they are straigth.

When it comes to Traynor, it is showed that she's ony interested in women. Although indeed even without that there are so many straight options that it simply wouldn't be fair, or rather would be even less fair then what we've got.

While you and I might make that distinction, other people see anyone's sexuality as straight until proven otherwise. For example, in Anders's case, for example, he never showed an interest in males in DA:A. You and I might say, "well he was always bisexual, he just never said so." Others would say, "He never mentioned being attracted to guys, but spoke about women all the time, therefore he was straight and changing his sexuality in DA2 was clearly pandering to the homosexuals."

Fan fiction writers change character's sexuality all the time, usually from straight to either bi or gay in the case of slash fiction (which is mostly what I read, well femslash anyway). I'm sure there's examples of it going the other way, but probably isn't as common (given the ubiquitous nature of heterosexuality, there's plenty of het characters going around that they don't need to make non-straight characters gay to fill a need for representation).

So yeah, I agree. They shouldn't make Traynor bisexual just to pander to male Anglophiles! 

i personally prefer that Traynor and Steve are exclusively homosexual/gay&lesbian (whichever you prefer) option.
People should not be forced to share Love Interests.

[draken-heart]

its quiet in here...too quiet

anyways, other than Shepard, do you think that Sam was with any other women? if so, what is her usual type?

[Zandilar]

MugenJustice wrote...

So I just started a trilogy run. THE THINGS I DO FOR YOU, TRAYNOR.

You know you can just use the Genesis DLC for ME2, don't you? It takes you through the major decisions of ME1, and then lets you go on your merry way through 2.

[Breakdown Boy]

This is so wierd, my Femshep is such a hobag, I mean I just told Kayden about Jacob *akward*, then he joins me on the Normandy, then Traynor comes up to my cabin and my PARAGON dialogue choice is "Would you like a shower?"

I mean damn!!!! It's like, hellloooo, my damn boyfriend is two floors down!!!!

[Monochrome Wench]

Just because a dialog option is top right doesn't mean its paragon, just as bottom right doesn't mean renegade. It can mean friendly/unfriendly or anything. Only conversation options that give you paragon or renegade points are paragon or renegade options.

[MugenJustice]

 

Zandilar wrote...

MugenJustice wrote...

So I just started a trilogy run. THE THINGS I DO FOR YOU, TRAYNOR.

You know you can just use the Genesis DLC for ME2, don't you? It takes you through the major decisions of ME1, and then lets you go on your merry way through 2.

Not paying for DLC that I don't need.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]  Besides, where's the fun in doing a trilogy run then?  Just landed on Virmire...replaying the first game has made me appreciate how refined the combat mechanics have become in the sequels.  

draken-heart wrote...

its quiet in here...too quiet

anyways, other than Shepard, do you think that Sam was with any other women? if so, what is her usual type?

Considering Sam plays for keeps, I'd like to think she doesn't get around all that often.  Perhaps 1-2 serious relationships.

[Zandilar]

MugenJustice wrote...

 

Zandilar wrote...

MugenJustice wrote...

So I just started a trilogy run. THE THINGS I DO FOR YOU, TRAYNOR.

You know you can just use the Genesis DLC for ME2, don't you? It takes you through the major decisions of ME1, and then lets you go on your merry way through 2.

Not paying for DLC that I don't need.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]  Besides, where's the fun in doing a trilogy run then?  Just landed on Virmire...replaying the first game has made me appreciate how refined the combat mechanics have become in the sequels.  

It saves time when you have limited time, as I do. Even with Genesis, I still haven't finished my Samancer's ME2 run yet... I guess I should put some time into it, or it'll never happen. (Currently playing MoPBeta and SWTOR as well, and also studying Law full time - what is this thing called free time?)

As for the first game, it was a completely different animal compared to 2 and 3. It was far more of an RPG, which is a shame. There aren't enough science fiction based RPGs around these days. *sighs and wonders where her ME1 discs are*

[Wowky]

I really liked Traynor as a character, FAR more than Kelly Chambers. Kelly always seemed creepy to me.

[Sporothrix]

Zandilar wrote...
 
These things really aren't just done at the last minute. My understanding of the way voice acting works is that they
try to get the actor to do all their lines in as few sessions as possible. Calling back actors for a handful of lines is not cost effective.

It wasn't supposed to be taken literally. Sure, thanks to delay they got few additional months. I only say that most of the resources and time they got they put into Cortez romance, while with Traynor it was basically just adding this tasteless sex scene and very few sligthly different lines (there's less dialogue if you romance her then if you didn't, as it skips chess conversations and lead directly to sex).

Zandilar wrote...

They're both adults, and the world is about to end. It could be that both decided the sezie the opportunity to make an intimate connection with someone they liked.

Yes, and that's called casual sex. Not real romance like gay men, not mentioning straight people, have got.

I like the people in the Fight for the Love thread, they're really a great bunch. However, the bias in that thread is very clear. Liara/Sam talk gets overwhelmed by Kaiden/Steve talk. The half hearted explanation for this is that Liara has her own thread that F!Shep players are welcome in (unlike male Kaidenmancers in the Kaiden thread).

And according to some guy from that thread who said he talked with one of the devs, they just "answered to fan request". So apparently thanks to a fact men dominated that thread, they figured out they don't have to care about lesbian romances.

Modifié par misoretu9, 02 avril 2012 - 11:55 .

[Zandilar]

misoretu9 wrote...

Zandilar wrote...
 
These things really aren't just done at the last minute. My understanding of the way voice acting works is that they
try to get the actor to do all their lines in as few sessions as possible. Calling back actors for a handful of lines is not cost effective.

It wasn't supposed to be taken literally. Sure, thanks to delay they got few additional months. I only say that most of the resources and time they got they put into Cortez romance, while with Traynor it was basically just adding this tasteless sex scene and very few sligthly different lines (there's less dialogue if you romance her then if you didn't, as it skips chess conversations and lead directly to sex).

I've pretty much seen the whole thing on YouTube (I do want to see it for myself in game, but that's not likely to happen for a while), so I would have to say that in general I agree with you. They definitely favoured Steve over Sam.

Zandilar wrote...

They're both adults, and the world is about to end. It could be that both decided the sezie the opportunity to make an intimate connection with someone they liked.

Yes, and that's called casual sex. Not real romance like gay men, not mentioning straight people, have got.

Tell that to straight F!Shep players, for whom it is possible that they end up with no one in ME3 due to the fact that both Kaiden and Garrus can be killed, Jacob has an affair and ends up all but married to his (pregnant) lover, and Thane dies in a horrible horrible way (but his death was hardly unexpected, since that was one of his plot points in ME2).

We at least get Liara, and have had her since ME1. (I won't mention Kelly. The less said about her the better - if you think Sam's shower scene was tasteless, it was the epitome of taste when compared to Kelly's stripperific pole dance at the end of ME2.)

Yes I am quite aware that there are people who say (you might even be one of them) that Liara doesn't count because she's "technically" not female (despite the fact that she looks female, acts female, sounds female, and the codex says the Asari are an all female race). That technicality is very fragile, and I'm sure m/m fans don't see it that way.

Also, going back to your comment about it just being casual sex. I'm afraid you missed my point. Crisis situations push people together, relationships tend to happen faster under those circumstances. It is also possible to fall for someone very quickly, even under less stressful situations. In any event, Samantha tells f!Shepard that she loves her, neither Kaiden nor Steve do the same for m!Shepard (or so I understand, I'm willing to be corrected on this point if I'm wrong).

I like the people in the Fight for the Love thread, they're really a great bunch. However, the bias in that thread is very clear. Liara/Sam talk gets overwhelmed by Kaiden/Steve talk. The half hearted explanation for this is that Liara has her own thread that F!Shep players are welcome in (unlike male Kaidenmancers in the Kaiden thread).

And according to some guy from that thread who said he talked with one of the devs, they just "answered to fan request". So apparently thanks to a fact men dominated that thread, they figured out they don't have to care about lesbian romances.

I'd hardly blame the whole of the fight for the (guy)love thread because I doubt that was the only place the devs were looking.

I'd also not be so quick to say that thread is dominated by guys. The largest consumers of Yaoi are women, I expect there are plenty of female fans of m!Shepard/Male romance.

[Sporothrix]

Zandilar wrote...

Tell that to straight F!Shep players, for whom it is possible that they end up with no one in ME3 due to the fact that both Kaiden and Garrus can be killed, Jacob has an affair and ends up all but married to his (pregnant) lover, and Thane dies in a horrible horrible way (but his death was hardly unexpected, since that was one of his plot points in ME2).

And theoretically straight MaleShep could end up only with Liara. Most of those character deaths are caused only by player decisions, so it's hardly comparable situation.

We at least get Liara, and have had her since ME1. (I won't mention Kelly. The less said about her the better - if you think Sam's shower scene was tasteless, it was the epitome of taste when compared to Kelly's stripperific pole dance at the end of ME2.)

But Kelly wasn't supposed to be romance option but just a mere fling, unlike Traynor.

Yes I am quite aware that there are people who say (you might even be one of them) that Liara doesn't count because she's "technically" not female (despite the fact that she looks female, acts female, sounds female, and the codex says the Asari are an all female race). That technicality is very fragile, and I'm sure m/m fans don't see it that way.

Yes, that opinion is debunked by game itself, but since even Casey Hudson stated that, it really cheapens that romance. 

Also, going back to your comment about it just being casual sex. I'm afraid you missed my point. Crisis situations push people together, relationships tend to happen faster under those circumstances. It is also possible to fall for someone very quickly, even under less stressful situations. In any event, Samantha tells f!Shepard that she loves her, neither Kaiden nor Steve do the same for m!Shepard (or so I understand, I'm willing to be corrected on this point if I'm wrong).

How convenient it only applies to lesbian romance - it saved devs work, so they could put more effort into developing other romances of audience they actually care about.

And sorry, but that "I love you" was just a show of bad taste of writer. Shep and Traynor don't know anything about each other because they don't talk, those few lines they got were about such important things like wanting expensive toothbrush. They only have sex (preceded by no flirting or any indication that any of them is attracted to another). And suddenly Traynor is in love with you? Sorry, but that declaration, given those circumstances, didn't mean anything. If she was a real person, then apparently she would be one of those who say that to all women, or was simply freaked out that soon she would die, so again, it didn't mean much. I would be glad for a show of real affection gay male romances got, even without such declaration.

Modifié par misoretu9, 02 avril 2012 - 05:33 .

[draken-heart]

@misoretu9: love is a combination emotion, when endorphin run haywire making you happy to be with the person you are with, a biological and psychological one, not just one or the other.

plus who knows how Samantha does Romantic relationships, love is not all about "getting to know" the other person. sometimes things do not work out even if the people involved have everything in common with each other.

[draken-heart]

draken-heart wrote...

@misoretu9: love is a combination emotion, when endorphin run haywire making you happy to be with the person you are with, a biological and psychological one, not just one or the other.

plus who knows how Samantha does Romantic relationships, love is not all about "getting to know" the other person. sometimes things do not work out even if the people involved have everything in common with each other.

bump, and if you do not believe me, look up the types of romantic relationships and see which one fits.

edit here is a list of the types of romantic relationships. i believe #17 fits the Samantha/fem!Shepard romance best.

Modifié par draken-heart, 02 avril 2012 - 06:51 .

[Zandilar]

misoretu9 wrote...

Zandilar wrote...

Tell that to straight F!Shep players, for whom it is possible that they end up with no one in ME3 due to the fact that both Kaiden and Garrus can be killed, Jacob has an affair and ends up all but married to his (pregnant) lover, and Thane dies in a horrible horrible way (but his death was hardly unexpected, since that was one of his plot points in ME2).

And theoretically straight MaleShep could end up only with Liara. Most of those character deaths are caused only by player decisions, so it's hardly comparable situation.

Liara is at least still someone.

 
But Kelly wasn't supposed to be romance option but just a mere fling, unlike Traynor.

That doesn't excuse the scene, or somehow make it better than Sam's shower scene. Besides which, you can continue a relationship with Kelly in 3, provided you don't get her killed. I don't know how it compares to other ME2 romance continuations, but it is there.

Yes I am quite aware that there are people who say (you might even be one of them) that Liara doesn't count because she's "technically" not female (despite the fact that she looks female, acts female, sounds female, and the codex says the Asari are an all female race). That technicality is very fragile, and I'm sure m/m fans don't see it that way.

Yes, that opinion is debunked by game itself, but since even Casey Hudson stated that, it really cheapens that romance.

If Casey Hudson had kept his mouth shut, would you still feel that way?

How convenient it only applies to lesbian romance - it saved devs work, so they could put more effort into developing other romances of audience they actually care about.

 Tvtropes is one of my favorite places on the internet... But I'll resist the temptation to fly into that blackhole, and say I agree with you. However, it's not a problem that Bioware is going to be able to solve (at least not overnight), since EA is the one pulling the strings for them these days, and all that matters to them is their bottomline.

While I hate to say this, because it's such a bitter pill, the truth of the matter is that right now the gaming industry is still dominated by men, and controlled by men in suits. And it's not just men, it's straight white affluent men. So every minority gets screwed somewhere (yes, women are a minority, which is ridiculous considering we make up half the population of the world).

I am not saying that we shouldn't push for more. We should. Loudly and persistantly. But don't misplace anger, don't get resentful of other players, because it really isn't their fault.

[SilentK]

Flyers215 wrote...

SaylorRevisited wrote...

Flyers215 wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

^ i think Gabriella Daniels, if you don't romance Samantha and do not get Gabby and Ken together.

or Diana Allers if you do not romance either of them.

I also think that Gabby and Sam would be a good fit.  I like them both a lot and I think they'd get along.  

I'm not a fan of Diana Allers.  I also can't ever get her to talk to me, so I don't know how a romance with her would even be pursued.  I'd rather romance Sam anyway.

I find Allers trashy. Sam is sweet, but it really was a bit rushed. It didn't feel much like an actual relationship developing. Well then again, there is reapers everywhere so....

I also find Allers a bit trashy.  That shirt is just too - er - low class, in my opinion.

I do feel like an actual relationship was developed with Traynor.  There are a lot of "conversations" that Shepard can have with her, even if they are of the auto-conversation type. Traynor has the majority of my favourite quotations from the game including:

"I'm a military officer on a military ship, so oorah, Commander.  Let's blow them to hell."

"Just never thought I'd see a woman under all that armour."

"So suck it up, princess.  You're in the military now, and you're going to win this for us."

And especially:

"Whatever happens - I love you.  Now, go save the world... again."

That whole interaction with Traynor before leaving for Earth had me in tears.  I thought it was very well done.  I felt that the relationship got rather personal with the interactions in between missions.  Her hatred for Cerberus and her developing hatred for the Reapers (going from "I wanted to see them defeated" to "I wanted to see them blown up") was very interesting to take part in.

Ohh...   =)   that sounds great! I know that I will make a FemShep for her!

[draken-heart]

Have we talked about everything Traynor?

anyways I open the dialogue floor for all people to join in and have fun with dialogue they would like to have been in-game.

[Sporothrix]

Zandilar wrote...

Liara is at least still someone.

And the point is? You said that straight women theoretically could get worse because due to their choices from previous games there could no male LI for FemShep remain. And theoretically straight men could also get worse. But it's their choice. And when it comes to us, we have nothing to say about mediocre options we got.

 
That doesn't excuse the scene, or somehow make it better than Sam's shower scene. Besides which, you can continue a relationship with Kelly in 3, provided you don't get her killed. I don't know how it compares to other ME2 romance continuations, but it is there.

If we put it that way, then there is also Allers. But sorry, I will gladly exchange all those three mediocre flings for even one full fledged, complex and portrayed with respect real gay romance from two such ones that guys got.

If Casey Hudson had kept his mouth shut, would you still feel that way?

I guess. A fact that they choose that route in order to please straight guys with 'girl on girl action' and also please homophobes that there's nothing to fear about, 'it's not really gay', and then, when they came to idea that it's time "for a real deal" - gay male romances, they used it as an excuse why we got almost nothing is incredibly disgusting.

While I hate to say this, because it's such a bitter pill, the truth of the matter is that right now the gaming industry is still dominated by men, and controlled by men in suits. And it's not just men, it's straight white affluent men. So every minority gets screwed somewhere (yes, women are a minority, which is ridiculous considering we make up half the population of the world).

Gay men are also minority. And I'm not sure that among sexual minority gamers there's more of them then women. Also, many men play lesbian characters and like something more than just pathetic girl on girl action alone. But I guess you're right here - someone came to conclusion that since they present themselves now as "progressive",  it's a waste of resources to put much effort into developing lesbian romances, only gay male ones matter here and only about them sites would write about and praise of how bold company is.

I miss DA writers, who added it because they simply cared and knew that's the right thing to do, not because it would be good for PR.

Modifié par misoretu9, 04 avril 2012 - 06:40 .

[draken-heart]

Miso: you know you do not have to play ME. you can play Skyrim, a Bethesda game. in fact i would recommend it, or just check the marriage vids on YT for that game, i'll bet that you will find respect for the romances in ME3, even Samantha.

[Zandilar]

misoretu9 wrote...

Zandilar wrote...

Liara is at least still someone.

And the point is? You said that straight women theoretically could get worse because due to their choices from previous games there could no male LI for FemShep remain. And theoretically straight men could also get worse. But it's their choice. And when it comes to us, we have nothing to say about mediocre options we got.

Liara arguably has the most polished romance arc of all of the LIs, for both male!Shepard and fem!Shepard (but this is probably subjective). Plus, she survives the entire series... which is more than could be said for... well any LI from ME1 and ME2.

 
If we put it that way, then there is also Allers. But sorry, I will gladly exchange all those three mediocre flings for even one full fledged, complex and portrayed with respect real gay romance from two such ones that guys got.

The difference between Allers and Kelly is that Kelly has been in two games, and has a longer arc. Allers was definitely supposed to be a one night stand style fling. But I brought up Kelly in this case to compare her ME2 pole dancing scene to Sam's ME3 shower scene.

If Casey Hudson had kept his mouth shut, would you still feel that way?

I guess. A fact that they choose that route in order to please straight guys with 'girl on girl action' and also please homophobes that there's nothing to fear about, 'it's not really gay', and then, when they came to idea that it's time "for a real deal" - gay male romances, they used it as an excuse why we got almost nothing is incredibly disgusting.

They didn't have to go with a blue bisexual alien psuedowoman to get the guys who think girl on girl is hot. They could have made Ashley bisexual. The homophobes, on the other hand, were STILL upset by Liara, because she looks, sounds, and acts female even in relationships with fem!Shepard, despite Casey's attempt to placate them (actually, you know... I honestly don't know what he was thinking). Bioware couldn't win on this issue, no matter what they did.

They still can't win on it. (Well, not in ME3 anyway. Maybe they might redeem themselves somewhat if they give lesbians equal treatment in their next game.)

Gay men are also minority. And I'm not sure that among sexual minority gamers there's more of them then women. Also, many men play lesbian characters and like something more than just pathetic girl on girl action alone. But I guess you're right here - someone came to conclusion that since they present themselves now as "progressive",  it's a waste of resources to put much effort into developing lesbian romances, only gay male ones matter here and only about them sites would write about and praise of how bold company is.

I miss DA writers, who added it because they simply cared and knew that's the right thing to do, not because it would be good for PR.

The DA writers just made everyone Hawke-sexual in 2. That has elicited a great deal of complaining, and has effected both the ME franchise and SWTOR. Bioware will probably never again do the whole "everyone's bi" deal... And I'm honestly surprised they ever went down that path in the first place considering how vehemenly opposed David Gaider was to the idea back in the days of Neverwinter Nights, where myself and a few others were happily modding NWN to make Aribeth bisexual (or make her romance gender neutral by fixing the tokens used). (He felt that characters should be designed with their sexuality in mind from the get go, and that anything else was really not doing them justice. For example, that a bisexual's romance with one gender might be different to how it would go with the other, depending on background and circumstances, and simply modding that character so their romance was gender neutral wasn't a good enough solution. It's an opinion I have come to share to a certain point. In games, where we have limited numbers of supporting characters, this isn't always feasable.)

Anyway, you and I really are on the same side in the end. I agree that they could have treated Samantha better than they did, and that we really do need to keep the pressure up on Bioware (and companies like them) to continue to improve on the inclusion front. Women and lesbians are people too, and we deserve to see ourselves properly reflected in games. While I LOVE Samantha, I do think the shower scene was a bit (ha, that's an understatement) much. We should have had more (maybe a couple of scenes worth of ) interaction with her before jumping into the sack with her. Her shower scene, and Kelly's pole dancing scene for that matter, were also a bit of an insult to women in general - talk about objectification!

[draken-heart]

i like Samantha, and so does Katelynn, my fem!Shepard. She is like ME1 Liara, but current Liara seems to creep me out, like she knows Shepard's every secret. at least Shepard can keep some things fro Sam.

hey who all thinks that Sam's romance has that start off fast then get romantic feel to it?

[MugenJustice]

Zandilar wrote...

MugenJustice wrote...

 

Zandilar wrote...

MugenJustice wrote...

So I just started a trilogy run. THE THINGS I DO FOR YOU, TRAYNOR.

You know you can just use the Genesis DLC for ME2, don't you? It takes you through the major decisions of ME1, and then lets you go on your merry way through 2.

Not paying for DLC that I don't need.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]  Besides, where's the fun in doing a trilogy run then?  Just landed on Virmire...replaying the first game has made me appreciate how refined the combat mechanics have become in the sequels.  

It saves time when you have limited time, as I do. Even with Genesis, I still haven't finished my Samancer's ME2 run yet... I guess I should put some time into it, or it'll never happen. (Currently playing MoPBeta and SWTOR as well, and also studying Law full time - what is this thing called free time?)

I can understand where you're coming from.  Grad school doesn't leave much time for saving the galaxy either lol.  Maybe one mission every few days.  Ah well.  That's why I play on Normal to breeze through the games...


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So I am in the middle of my Samancer ME2 playthrough.  Question is...to off Garrus, or not off Garrus?  Garrus is my bro and all, but....

[draken-heart]

^ i could not do that, if only for the awesomeness that is Garrus sniping targets while Katelynn blasts them up close and personal with her biotics.

[SilentK]

Might just be time to romance Traynor with the current FemShep, she romanced Jacob in ME2 which means that she is pretty much single in ME3.

I just wish there was a way to get the chess-scene first and then after some dialogue you could have the shower afterwards. This must be the only romance I have encountered so far that gives you less scenes if you choose to get the character better? Oh well, I'll have the chess-scene on the next FemShep but it's just such a great scene that it would have been lovely to just start flirting with each other in that scene. And then having the shower in the next scene.

Really don't know how they came to the current arrangement.