All the vault ratings really need to do is provide players with a short list of modules to play. A new player can't simply look at the hundreds of mods up there and pick one at random, they have to have a limited set to choose from; all the high (8.5+) ratings do is mark some modules as worth playing. The real problem we have now is that there are so many modules worth playing, that's it hard to pick from amongst them. What we really need is a better system of tags and lists, so that players can easily find modules that match their own preferences. And that system can be developed off the vault, even here. We just need a good place to recommend modules, that gives new modules a fair shot at being noticed. No competition required.
The hardest part of modding
Débuté par
M. Rieder
, févr. 02 2012 06:19
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#52
Posté 04 février 2012 - 05:26
M. Rieder
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That's an interesting idea. Would you imagine an independent site, sort of a "vault registry" of sorts where builders can register their entries and link to the vault, or some sort of thread here?
#53
Posté 04 février 2012 - 05:30
kamal_
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Well, all they'd have to do is take the "Module types" and let you sort by them. The modules are already tagged, the Vault simply doesn't use the tags.
#54
Guest_Iveforgotmypassword_*
Posté 04 février 2012 - 05:47
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Arkalezth.. I wish it could and would the way it is doesn't seem fair at all. I've seen the nexus system with the fallout mods and think it's far better then again at least we have the vault rather than some advert plugging nonsense.
#55
Posté 04 février 2012 - 05:59
Alupinu
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Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...
What we really need is a better system of tags and lists, so that players can easily find modules that match their own preferences. And that system can be developed off the vault, even here. We just need a good place to recommend modules, that gives new modules a fair shot at being noticed. No competition required.
Didn't LeeMer47 attempt something like that here in NwN2 Mods?
#56
Posté 04 février 2012 - 10:39
The Fred
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No they don't follow them, but they can hardly be called in the wrong for not doing something they're not meant to just because everyone else was. In fact, they should be the only person not executed for failing to obey their sovereign lord; it doesn't matter whether everyone else thinks the road should have a 30mph speed limit or not, because the opinion of peasants doesn't matter.Iveforgotmypassword wrote...
Everybody drives at fifty until one day somebody says hang on a minute this has a thirty miles an hour limit I will abide by this law. Does everybody follow them and do the same or fly past with their fingers up because Mr "rules are rules" caused a massive tail back and confusion ?
#57
Posté 04 février 2012 - 11:18
nicethugbert
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#58
Posté 05 février 2012 - 01:39
Lugaid of the Red Stripes
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@Alupinu: LeeMer47's lists are kinda what I had in mind. His work has been re-posted to the Steam boards, so that helps boost the community, too. His lists, though, only include a few criteria (level, sp/mp, expansion), and are still kinda hard to sort through.
Like Kamalpoe pointed out, the vault already includes a few tags, but the tags they have are limited (forest adventure?) and not really used by the search engine.
More of what I had in mind would be something like a sticky in the boards, or maybe a wiki-type setup. Basically, we need a way that people can wander in from the intertubes and have modules recommended to them by players and other community members. We already get a few threads like that every now and then, but we need to reach the quiet people who won't bother to sign up for an account and post a question.
The project might end up looking like a big guidebook, describing the various categories of modules and well-received examples from each category. I don't play enough modules to really know the lay of the land so to speak, but I do know it's more complicated than roleplay vs. hack-n-slash. I know we get a lot of people from the Elder Scrolls and WoW, some who just want more and some as refugees who want something different. Some want to relive PnP experiences, some want to get lost in a story. I really think the players need to start having more of a conversation with each other about what modules they play, so that others can listen in and find something that appeals to them. Maybe we need a NWN2 Oprah that starts a module-of-the-month club, so everyone can get together and chat about what they played.
Also, since the toolset allows us to create such diverse play experiences, I think we need something out there that explains to potential buyers what they can get for their $20. MotB and SoZ appeal to different kinds of players, and the modules and PW's expand that base far beyond Faerun and standard cRPG conventions. I just know that my own work would appeal to a very particular kind of player, one that might not be terribly interested in the OC, and other modules have their own idiosyncratic player bases.
Like Kamalpoe pointed out, the vault already includes a few tags, but the tags they have are limited (forest adventure?) and not really used by the search engine.
More of what I had in mind would be something like a sticky in the boards, or maybe a wiki-type setup. Basically, we need a way that people can wander in from the intertubes and have modules recommended to them by players and other community members. We already get a few threads like that every now and then, but we need to reach the quiet people who won't bother to sign up for an account and post a question.
The project might end up looking like a big guidebook, describing the various categories of modules and well-received examples from each category. I don't play enough modules to really know the lay of the land so to speak, but I do know it's more complicated than roleplay vs. hack-n-slash. I know we get a lot of people from the Elder Scrolls and WoW, some who just want more and some as refugees who want something different. Some want to relive PnP experiences, some want to get lost in a story. I really think the players need to start having more of a conversation with each other about what modules they play, so that others can listen in and find something that appeals to them. Maybe we need a NWN2 Oprah that starts a module-of-the-month club, so everyone can get together and chat about what they played.
Also, since the toolset allows us to create such diverse play experiences, I think we need something out there that explains to potential buyers what they can get for their $20. MotB and SoZ appeal to different kinds of players, and the modules and PW's expand that base far beyond Faerun and standard cRPG conventions. I just know that my own work would appeal to a very particular kind of player, one that might not be terribly interested in the OC, and other modules have their own idiosyncratic player bases.
#59
Posté 22 février 2012 - 11:00
Mikka-chan
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I'll say this: I don't vote on mods anymore, because I've seen a lot of posts complaining about a 7 or 8 vote (or gosh forbid, a 5!) when by the voting standards, that is what the module should be getting if it's a good mod, not a great one, or even just an average mod. Yet as 10s get handed out like candy, my vote would pull the module 'down and cause distress' even if I think it's a reasonable vote and explain everything I like as well as offer constructive criticism.
Part of me does want to say "Don't take it so hard!" to builders who get low votes and feel upset, and people who call people who give lower votes then expected trolls (though I certainly understand the frustration and confusion of getting votes that make no sense- "This mod requires a female human rogue"- "I played my male half-orc barbarian and this mod makes no sense, wah, score of 1!" / "bug I ran in to yellow blue annoyed 3" "I'm sorry, what bug did you run in to?" "...never any response incoming"!).
But I realize most of the problem is with the voters who have been voting around three up the score-card (if not higher) for years now and causing build up and expectations and all sorts of messes.
So where do we go from here? I don't know. This problem was in NWN one, too, and I don't think we ever came upon an answer.
Part of me does want to say "Don't take it so hard!" to builders who get low votes and feel upset, and people who call people who give lower votes then expected trolls (though I certainly understand the frustration and confusion of getting votes that make no sense- "This mod requires a female human rogue"- "I played my male half-orc barbarian and this mod makes no sense, wah, score of 1!" / "bug I ran in to yellow blue annoyed 3" "I'm sorry, what bug did you run in to?" "...never any response incoming"!).
But I realize most of the problem is with the voters who have been voting around three up the score-card (if not higher) for years now and causing build up and expectations and all sorts of messes.
So where do we go from here? I don't know. This problem was in NWN one, too, and I don't think we ever came upon an answer.
#60
Posté 22 février 2012 - 11:40
Arkalezth
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I agree and I've thought sometimes about simply commenting without voting. I don't discard starting to do that.
I've given a couple of 10s, but those were given to modules that I really considered outstanding and pretty much perfect in their goals. I don't like comments of the type: "Interesting module. 10." (there's a player whose name I don't remember that I used to find particularly annoying, as he voted everything with a 10 and always post the same sentence, which meaning I never understood very well, btw), but on the other hand, there are many that really deserve good scores, maybe not 9.5 or 10, but at least 8 or so.
Another problem is the half (and quarter) points. Really, what's the difference between 7.75, 8, and 8.25? I think eliminating that, or maybe even vote from 1 to 5, would help somewhat, though I guess it's too late for that.
For the record, I've played The Wizard's Apprentice 1 and I wouldn't give it a 10, or maybe even the 9.38 it has (sorry Matt :innocent:), but not a 4 either. It's a good module, but not perfect. An 8 or so seems about right IMO. Of course, others' opinions may differ, but some of those people who have voted it with a 10 will have to give a 15 to the sequel.
I've given a couple of 10s, but those were given to modules that I really considered outstanding and pretty much perfect in their goals. I don't like comments of the type: "Interesting module. 10." (there's a player whose name I don't remember that I used to find particularly annoying, as he voted everything with a 10 and always post the same sentence, which meaning I never understood very well, btw), but on the other hand, there are many that really deserve good scores, maybe not 9.5 or 10, but at least 8 or so.
Another problem is the half (and quarter) points. Really, what's the difference between 7.75, 8, and 8.25? I think eliminating that, or maybe even vote from 1 to 5, would help somewhat, though I guess it's too late for that.
For the record, I've played The Wizard's Apprentice 1 and I wouldn't give it a 10, or maybe even the 9.38 it has (sorry Matt :innocent:), but not a 4 either. It's a good module, but not perfect. An 8 or so seems about right IMO. Of course, others' opinions may differ, but some of those people who have voted it with a 10 will have to give a 15 to the sequel.
#61
Posté 23 février 2012 - 12:17
Dann-J
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Arkalezth wrote...
There's a player whose name I don't remember that I used to find particularly annoying, as he voted everything with a 10 and always post the same sentence, which meaning I never understood very well, btw
I know who you mean, and from what I can tell, the consistent 10s are rewarded for the modules being 'tidy'.
#62
Posté 23 février 2012 - 12:28
kamal_
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Right now the hardest part is finding the energy. Haven't done much is a while. Winter will be over soon and my energy will come back.
#63
Posté 23 février 2012 - 02:40
Alupinu
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kamal_ wrote...
Right now the hardest part is finding the energy. Haven't done much is a while. Winter will be over soon and my energy will come back.
What about the time?
#64
Posté 23 février 2012 - 09:40
Artemis Absinthe
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I think critics are the most important part of releasing something if your goal is to improve your skills AND your module.
I played Wizard Apprentice and I enjoyed it. I think it is a great story, focused on what actual D&D wizards do, like digging for worms, hunting strange creature in order to use their secretion to build unusual contraption for a better schnapps distillation. The story is interesting, too, and low level spells are well used, but I think there's enough room for improvements. I'm sure the 2nd part will be good, too, and I'm looking forward to play it, but, as Shaun the Crazy One said, when you have to vote it, you have to give what you think it deserve, not a high score just to please the modder.
Not enough time for multiple dialog choices, I understand, but, hell, 2 possible ending, instead of one ? It's true that a low score for not to be able to use your paladin or barbarian in a story focused on wizards, is just stupid. But, for instance, the fact that, in conversation, someone cast on you a sleep spell and you fall asleep, even if you're an elf, or protected against sleep... well, it can be improved, IMHO. I like to play wizards, so, I know how the spells work. But don't means I don't like the module, I'm offering advice that could (or not) improve it.
The content is free, but if I (user) liked it, and I want to help you improve it, I won't give you an high score just to make you happy. Instead I give your module a medium score, and write the reason why I did it. Private conversation via email ? Right, but a lot of users don't have a mail contact in their profile, so I can't do it, I use the comment instead.
IMHO you don't have to focus on the low vote per se, but on the comment. If a user vote it low with a "bah, crap" comment, he's just trolling or he's just an idiot, but if he write a detailed review and motivate the low score with things he think could improve the module, things not related to the plot choices or the amount of pink, but actual bugs, or similar, he's actually helping you improving the content.
I'm not a modder, just a humble scripter, and, in my work, I don't aim for perfection, but improvements are always welcome, expecially when you work alone or in a small team. Four eyes can see things that two can't, and six even more.
It's better to obtain a high score, even if not deserved, or a medium score that help you learn how to do stuff, that could be used in your next module in order to make it awesome ?
A low score will catch your attention. After that, I could vote again and raise it, if I think it's better.
I'm not saying the vault's voting system is perfect nor that all the low vote are constructive critics, it's up to you to ignore the trolls and the wow style players and focus on the good. A high score is always a good thing, but I think it's not automatically deserved. If I don't like a module, or I think it's crap, I don't even bother to vote it, but, if I like it, I will vote it for what I think it deserve. Just the fact that I took my time to vote it and put a comment, it means I liked it, but I think it can be even better.
But this is just my opinion, I may be wrong.
I played Wizard Apprentice and I enjoyed it. I think it is a great story, focused on what actual D&D wizards do, like digging for worms, hunting strange creature in order to use their secretion to build unusual contraption for a better schnapps distillation. The story is interesting, too, and low level spells are well used, but I think there's enough room for improvements. I'm sure the 2nd part will be good, too, and I'm looking forward to play it, but, as Shaun the Crazy One said, when you have to vote it, you have to give what you think it deserve, not a high score just to please the modder.
Not enough time for multiple dialog choices, I understand, but, hell, 2 possible ending, instead of one ? It's true that a low score for not to be able to use your paladin or barbarian in a story focused on wizards, is just stupid. But, for instance, the fact that, in conversation, someone cast on you a sleep spell and you fall asleep, even if you're an elf, or protected against sleep... well, it can be improved, IMHO. I like to play wizards, so, I know how the spells work. But don't means I don't like the module, I'm offering advice that could (or not) improve it.
The content is free, but if I (user) liked it, and I want to help you improve it, I won't give you an high score just to make you happy. Instead I give your module a medium score, and write the reason why I did it. Private conversation via email ? Right, but a lot of users don't have a mail contact in their profile, so I can't do it, I use the comment instead.
IMHO you don't have to focus on the low vote per se, but on the comment. If a user vote it low with a "bah, crap" comment, he's just trolling or he's just an idiot, but if he write a detailed review and motivate the low score with things he think could improve the module, things not related to the plot choices or the amount of pink, but actual bugs, or similar, he's actually helping you improving the content.
I'm not a modder, just a humble scripter, and, in my work, I don't aim for perfection, but improvements are always welcome, expecially when you work alone or in a small team. Four eyes can see things that two can't, and six even more.
It's better to obtain a high score, even if not deserved, or a medium score that help you learn how to do stuff, that could be used in your next module in order to make it awesome ?
A low score will catch your attention. After that, I could vote again and raise it, if I think it's better.
I'm not saying the vault's voting system is perfect nor that all the low vote are constructive critics, it's up to you to ignore the trolls and the wow style players and focus on the good. A high score is always a good thing, but I think it's not automatically deserved. If I don't like a module, or I think it's crap, I don't even bother to vote it, but, if I like it, I will vote it for what I think it deserve. Just the fact that I took my time to vote it and put a comment, it means I liked it, but I think it can be even better.
But this is just my opinion, I may be wrong.
Modifié par Artemis Absinthe, 23 février 2012 - 10:24 .
#65
Posté 23 février 2012 - 10:18
Clyordes
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Personally, I try not to woory too much about the scores I get - for all the reasons given above, they're so subjective as to be a little untrustworthy. People's comments give a much better view of how much they enjoyed the adventure, and if they didn't like things I have no control over, I don't worry.
Occaisionally someone complains about crashes, but if people with such claims are few & far between, I assume the problem's at their end, not a mistake I made in the module.
Overall though - I think it has to come down why us builders decided to tangle with the toolset. If you're looking for praise & prestige, then you have to prepare to accept some criticism too.
Myself, I got into it purely because I wanted to play old pen & paper modules I'd played years ago and few were being made for NWN2. That and it feels incredible to wander around in a world you've created & see everything you've set up actually working as you intended. And if other players like them too - that's grand :-)
Positive feedback & high votes are always nice to get, but realistically - I think you have to ask "Why am I making this adventure?"
Cly.
Occaisionally someone complains about crashes, but if people with such claims are few & far between, I assume the problem's at their end, not a mistake I made in the module.
Overall though - I think it has to come down why us builders decided to tangle with the toolset. If you're looking for praise & prestige, then you have to prepare to accept some criticism too.
Myself, I got into it purely because I wanted to play old pen & paper modules I'd played years ago and few were being made for NWN2. That and it feels incredible to wander around in a world you've created & see everything you've set up actually working as you intended. And if other players like them too - that's grand :-)
Positive feedback & high votes are always nice to get, but realistically - I think you have to ask "Why am I making this adventure?"
Cly.
#66
Posté 24 février 2012 - 01:28
John McA
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I think anyone who goes into that toolset, puts out a module single handedly that isn't totally broken and provides at least a half hour of free entertainment deserves it to be called a masterpiece. I vote rarely because I only get the chance to play rarely, never vote for myself, and always vote a 10 (I think). So sorry for contributing to breaking the voting system, but at least not by too much.
A 10 is like a big thank you. For something that took hundreds of free hours anything less is like saying, "Well Santa, after due, careful and possibly patronising deliberating, I thank you this much, and you should be satisfied with that."
Comments and correctable criticisms are fine (not "I liked your module, but I don't know why I liked it so I'm marking it right down as if I hated it". Saying which bit you liked is nice, especially because it was probably a month's work. Bug reports are necessary, and deferring votes because of bugs is very kind. I sometimes wish votes could be disabled while enabling comments.
We get judged so much in real life, do we need it in fantasy too? Anyway, who said you had to be polite to naysayers? I feel liberated from that. I kind of hope I can get them down to a 1, or a minus 10! Bring on negative votes!
John
A 10 is like a big thank you. For something that took hundreds of free hours anything less is like saying, "Well Santa, after due, careful and possibly patronising deliberating, I thank you this much, and you should be satisfied with that."
Comments and correctable criticisms are fine (not "I liked your module, but I don't know why I liked it so I'm marking it right down as if I hated it". Saying which bit you liked is nice, especially because it was probably a month's work. Bug reports are necessary, and deferring votes because of bugs is very kind. I sometimes wish votes could be disabled while enabling comments.
We get judged so much in real life, do we need it in fantasy too? Anyway, who said you had to be polite to naysayers? I feel liberated from that. I kind of hope I can get them down to a 1, or a minus 10! Bring on negative votes!
John
#67
Posté 24 février 2012 - 02:24
rjshae
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Having voted a few times myself, I have to say that I usually only go back and vote when I really enjoyed a particular work. I have been reluctant to vote realistically according to the listed scale because it feels more like a morale vote than a critique. For a volunteer effort like this, I probably wouldn't vote any lower than a 9.5, for example, unless something was hopelessly broken and felt people should be steered away.
From the receiving end, getting high votes is always welcome and greatly appreciated, but there have been many times when I'd rather have constructive criticism so I have something to go back and address. Actually getting e-mail feedback can be very heartening. :-)
Would it be in poor form to add a pop-up message at the end of your module asking people to go vote on your effort?
From the receiving end, getting high votes is always welcome and greatly appreciated, but there have been many times when I'd rather have constructive criticism so I have something to go back and address. Actually getting e-mail feedback can be very heartening. :-)
Would it be in poor form to add a pop-up message at the end of your module asking people to go vote on your effort?
Modifié par rjshae, 24 février 2012 - 02:25 .
#68
Posté 24 février 2012 - 06:58
PJ156
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rjshae wrote...
Would it be in poor form to add a pop-up message at the end of your module asking people to go vote on your effort?
I did in Sheep and Stone and Caravan Club I think, it's been a while now.
I vote 8+ or not at all, generaly my votes come in above 9. Below 8 and I PM the author rather then drag down the score. I tend to vote high becuase I have spend many hours at this tool set and I know what this takes. I tend to side with John McA though not to the extreme of giving everything a 10.
I agree this tends towards breaking the system but the system in itself is not a good one and I think modders should be rewarded for thier efforts and not be penalised for poor spelling (perhaps for obvious reasons). If the only way I can do that is with a vote then that is what I do. I will always vote or contact the author on mods I have played.
My comment to the non voters or considering non voting .... PLEASE VOTE! I wan't to know that you have played the mod. I want to know that 12 months of my life is not lost in cyberspace with only two people playing it. I am not like Clyordes in this respect. I do not do this for me for the most part I do this for you. I do it for the player because I get a buzz out of knowing that words I have written and places I envisage are on your hard drive and part of your enjoyment of the game. In much the same way as I have spent hours in the past as a table top GM writing games for my players. If they did not turn up to play I can assure you the play experience is different
.My last comment is to the post that asked for a choice of two endings ... that can be done. As can choice, or Pseudo choice, in coversations - but it takes time. I have just put a choice of three paths in my latest mod. Each one leads to the same quest conclusion (the death of the bad guy) but the player can take three paths to that point. Each adds maybe 20 - 30 minutes of gameplay. It took me three months, and it will take me weeks to test thoroughly. If I get three playtesters I may get each path tested otherwise one or more may go untested and I end up with bad comments becuase my mod is broken. So choice is a hard thing to code. That three months could have put me near the end of the main story line and I am not doing that level of choice again.
Sorry I'm rambling! If you don't vote please do! Vote what you want and place comments to support the vote. If you want to give my mod a 5 (and people have I think) then give comments. If you want to give it a 10 then please give comments too!
I think that if you fail to vote what you think because others are voting high then you are much a part of breaking the system as the high voters.
PJ
Modifié par PJ156, 24 février 2012 - 07:01 .
#69
Posté 24 février 2012 - 03:32
Dorateen
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John McA wrote...
I kind of hope I can get them down to a 1, or a minus 10! Bring on negative votes!
John
And negative armor classes!
Great post, John.
Harumph!
Modifié par Dorateen, 24 février 2012 - 03:33 .
#70
Posté 24 février 2012 - 04:00
Quixal
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Heh. I think I contributed to breaking the system more than most as I have not even been all that consistent. I started out giving overly high scores and then was convinced by others to stick to the voting system as written. Then I want back to giving higher votes.
Alas, I think I unintentionally contributed to chasing off a modder with this as I gave Trial and Terror what may have seemed like a low vote. I stuck around in the comments for a long time giving feedback of various sorts and hope that is what counted but Indira Lightfoot disappeared shortly afterwards.
Alas, I think I unintentionally contributed to chasing off a modder with this as I gave Trial and Terror what may have seemed like a low vote. I stuck around in the comments for a long time giving feedback of various sorts and hope that is what counted but Indira Lightfoot disappeared shortly afterwards.
#71
Posté 24 février 2012 - 06:32
M. Rieder
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The voting system does not appear to be broken. Go into the catalogue of top modules (those that have received 10+ votes. You will see a distribution of votes that is very reasonable. Out of 123 modules, 66 are in the 9's, 67 in the 8's, 34 in the 7's, 13 in the 6's, and one each for 5,4,3. This means that most people find the "top modules" to be be "very good", "excellent", or "outstanding", which makes perfect sense to me.
A broken system would be one that provides no clear distinction between modules. That is not what we have here.
I would also like to introduce the idea that maybe we have so many modules with high votes because we have so many excellent modders in our community. Perhaps the voting system is just fine and the votes reflect the excellence of the work of our fantastic community.
A broken system would be one that provides no clear distinction between modules. That is not what we have here.
I would also like to introduce the idea that maybe we have so many modules with high votes because we have so many excellent modders in our community. Perhaps the voting system is just fine and the votes reflect the excellence of the work of our fantastic community.
Modifié par M. Rieder, 24 février 2012 - 06:44 .
#72
Posté 24 février 2012 - 06:33
M. Rieder
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Dorateen wrote...
And negative armor classes!
Harumph!
Here here! The way it should be!
#73
Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
Posté 24 février 2012 - 06:45
Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
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Quixal wrote...
Heh. I think I contributed to breaking the system more than most as I have not even been all that consistent. I started out giving overly high scores and then was convinced by others to stick to the voting system as written. Then I want back to giving higher votes.
Alas, I think I unintentionally contributed to chasing off a modder with this as I gave Trial and Terror what may have seemed like a low vote. I stuck around in the comments for a long time giving feedback of various sorts and hope that is what counted but Indira Lightfoot disappeared shortly afterwards.
Hopefully you're not beating yourself up over that. To me, Indira did what he(she?) wanted to do and released the mod. That's more than most.
#74
Posté 24 février 2012 - 08:11
PJ156
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M. Rieder wrote...
The voting system does not appear to be broken. Go into the catalogue of top modules (those that have received 10+ votes. You will see a distribution of votes that is very reasonable. Out of 123 modules, 66 are in the 9's, 67 in the 8's, 34 in the 7's, 13 in the 6's, and one each for 5,4,3. This means that most people find the "top modules" to be be "very good", "excellent", or "outstanding", which makes perfect sense to me.
A broken system would be one that provides no clear distinction between modules. That is not what we have here.
I would also like to introduce the idea that maybe we have so many modules with high votes because we have so many excellent modders in our community. Perhaps the voting system is just fine and the votes reflect the excellence of the work of our fantastic community.
Hear hear ...
A good point well made and good use of stats too. I feel a graph coming on.
PJ
#75
Posté 24 février 2012 - 08:24
Quixal
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It honestly never occurred to me until this topic started. I have since gone back and reread my posts on the module page and hope my attempts at helpfulness there made it clear I was not knocking the module. It was the first that I tried to use the literal voting standards on though so if she looked at other votes she would have seen high ones. Heh. It is perhaps ironic that it was EE that talked me into sticking to the voting system.Chaos Wielder wrote...
Hopefully you're not beating yourself up over that. To me, Indira did what he(she?) wanted to do and released the mod. That's more than most.
Not a clue. I find neutral pronouns clumsy and annoying so even the flimsy justification of a female forum name was been enough to make me call Indira a her.Chaos Wielder wrote...
he(she?)
