91 réponses à ce sujet

[M. Rieder]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

...and been taken down to a 1 for my reaction to peoples comments no way am I being polite if they're not and half the time it's only moaning about personal preferences anyway.

Tsongo.

This is the kind of thing that the OP was really about.  It's not about people giving a 7 or people who feel that a 4, 5 or 6 is a good vote based on a particular understanding of the voting standards.  It is about players irrationally punishing modders because they don't know what the hell they are doing or because they don't like the way we respond to their comments.  That sort of behavior is reprehensible and is a breach of the good faith that should pervade communities such as this.  I will note that this sort of thing is rare, but not as rare as I wish it was.  I also have not been the subject of it, but I have seen some very talented and gifted modders, such as Tsongo, have to deal with this trivial nonsense and it is very frustrating to watch.

Modifié par M. Rieder, 26 février 2012 - 12:57 .

[seraphimsage]

Probably mentioned before, but I'll mention it again as the issue only recently arose.

Not knowing the effect of exterior override files in the 'Override' folder or nwn2 patch disparities and what weird effects they can have on your module, especially if they prove game-stoppers. In which case, people may forgo commenting hoping it will disappear after time or get fed up with the mod entirely and leave us in the dark.

Of course someone did bring this type of issue to my attention, for which I'm sincerely grateful, but that isn't always the case, and I can only hope that the issue was actually diagnosed correctly, and it wasn't something I accidentally implemented, even though the module was tested several different ways and still failed recreate the problem that was mentioned. Please pardon the rant but such issues arise with so much custom-content available and people trying to adapt or forgetting to remove files in their override folder before they play a mod that could potentially override some crucial 2da or code-scripts such as the default nw_ scripts related to creatures' AI. Unbeatable boss battles are the prime example of this.

[PJ156]

There's a balance I think. Constructive critique is good and peoples personal feelings about the mod form part of that.
We can choose to ignore it or not, but in general it can help us move forward.

The instance you had Tsongo and others like it are not constructive, or even critique. They have no place but we can't control them, they are going to happen. I think we are lucky that the community is small and trolls are rare.

What I dislike, and I have had a few of these, is "I'm marking this down because the combat is too hard" that one is subjective and is more about player skill than anything else. We can't balance this for every play level, that is what hardcore mode is for IMO.  One player stopped playing my mod and came back and gave me a 4 because they could not get past a particular combat. It is very difficult to get past that by good module design alone. My problem is that some people do not consider thier comments in context, they do not seem to say, well twenty other people got past this combat and voted so perhaps this is just me?

Anyways it's a free world ...

I have just got what I consider to be a perfect balanced feedback on Caravan Club from Wild Sage. I know what peeved him/her and what he/she liked. I can build from that ...

PJ

Modifié par PJ156, 26 février 2012 - 04:37 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

The fact that someone downloads content I post and plays it doesn't make them a friend and doesn't raise their IQ. Comments matter to me because (1) I want to know about bugs so I can fix them or avoid them in future projects, (2) I'm open to suggestions for improvement, (3) I like knowing someone enjoyed my work for a few hours considering that I spent hundreds of my own on it building and testing. Those benefits outweigh the negatives of posts by nitwits and ne'er-do-wells and people who don't read the mod description and then complain because it isn't want they wanted. You just can't have a thin skin if you put something out there for the world. It is a cruel, cruel world. I do wish though that the Vault allowed the authors to at least mark comments as spam though so they can be quickly removed.

Regards

[M. Rieder]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

. You just can't have a thin skin if you put something out there for the world. It is a cruel, cruel world. I do wish though that the Vault allowed the authors to at least mark comments as spam though so they can be quickly removed.

Regards

I think you have the right of it.  We just have to expect to have those people out there who seem bent on negativity.  I also think it would be neat if the vault allowed authors a certain number of "vetoes" so that we could protect ourselves to some degree from malicious voting.  They could limt the number to prevent abuse - maybe 2 or 3 max. 

The other thing we can keep in mind is that we are all subject to the same community so the negative voting generally affects all of us equally, so there is not a true disparity there as far as ranking goes.  I think the thick skin is important.  We need to have a 'modder's skin" item on the vault - something like DR 5/- piercing or something like that.

[PJ156]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

It's not going to change that's just the way it is and Mr Reider you are right it is indeed the "hardest part of modding !"

That and scripting while drunk ...

That's pretty hard too.

PJ

[The Fred]

Sorry, but we Script Wizards have Spelling as a class skill. If you guys are Illiterate, it's your own fault for playing Barbarian.

[rjshae]

I forget where I saw it, but there was a story a few months back about criticism of software. Oddly, the criticism is greater when the software is free compared to when it is a purchased product. IIRC, the explanation is that the latter is a selected by the price of the software to be people who need the software and therefore tend to view it more favorably. That may be the case here.

Sometimes you just have to say, "well I can't please everybody... and I'm not going to do this for those I can't!" As long as at least some of the players enjoy your work, then you're doing good.

P. S. One of my slightly warped aphorisms reads:

Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, criticize!

[Dann-J]

M. Rieder wrote...

I also think it would be neat if the vault allowed authors a certain number of "vetoes" so that we could protect ourselves to some degree from malicious voting.  They could limt the number to prevent abuse - maybe 2 or 3 max. 

I think allowing content providers the ability to censor the comments/votes is a very slippery slope to be heading down. The voting system already seems to ignore extremely low outliers when calculating the average vote.

Perhaps it should be modified to ignore extremely *high* outliers as well, just to be fair? Then all those automatic 10s which aren't truly representative of the votes would be equally discounted.

However, a quick and easy way of flagging spam would certainly be appreciated - requiring review by a moderator of course, to prevent content providers from simply labeling comments they don't like as spam to make them go away.

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

From the Voting FAQ:

"Q. How is the overall file score calculated?

A. NWVault uses a Trimmed Mean system to calculate all file scores. In this system, the top and bottom 10% of votes are removed from the sample prior to calculating the mean. This helps prevent outliers from influencing a file's score."

http://nwvault.ign.c...es.Detail&id=75

[John McA]

Re: Dorateen's Comment: "And negative armor classes!" (Sorry, so stupid and old I cannot do the caption thing.)

Oh, when -10 was an unassailable dream! And I got so close with my AC -9 character in Baldurs Gate 2.

I would say in all seriousness that the average standard of commenter in this community is pretty high, being occasionally subject to the vagaries of "peer reviewers" in "real life" work. Some people, and I think in the NWN2 community less than most, just turn into sociopaths when they get that power to destroy or defame someone else's work.

The Hardest Thing About Modding I'm finding now is that talking to likeminded inviduals about evil players is so much easier than, and very distracting from, modding! I'd better get back to the playtesting grindstone...

John

[M. Rieder]

A harsh grindstone it is!

[The Fred]

Well, we all know that there are issues with average ratings.

John McA wrote...
Oh, when -10 was an unassailable dream! And I got so close with my AC -9 character in Baldurs Gate 2.

Full Plate/Ghost Armour (AC 1) + 18 Dex plus Manual of Quickness plus Draw Upon Holy Might = 21 Dex (-5) + Ring of Protection +2 (-2) + Helm of Balduran/Helm of Glory (-1) + Blur (-3) + Defensive Harmony (-2) = -12 AC.

[M. Rieder]

Wow! I forgot that the BG series used -AC. You know, I never finished BG2 throne of bhaal, because it froze up on me about halfway through. Maybe I'll go back. My favorite weapon was that dagger that did 2d4 damage and you could throw it and it would come back to you. I also like how poison worked in BG2 - you could really stick it to the bad guys, and you didn't need a bunch of expendables for it. Set traps, same way. I once killed a red dragon by setting about 5 dozen traps in its lair then getting it to chase me. What fun! Now adays, you have to be a very wealthy rogue to do any serious trapsetting or poisoning.