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Shepard should really be beyond the Alliance, shouldn't he?


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#26
Drone223

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mango smoothie wrote...

seirhart wrote...

still don't care about the alliance, my shepard and my other shepards are pro alien anti human and just don't care if the alliance survives or falls. If the alliance survives, well good for them but if they fall oh well didn't care for the alliance.


I just don't understand why people say they are anti human. Sure you might not agree with current things going on with humanity, but why would you abandon your own species and hate them. Instead work torwards helping your species instead of cowarding and abandoning them.

^This your Shepard can be pro-human and pro-alien at the same time

Modifié par Drone223, 03 février 2012 - 01:46 .


#27
Shinobu

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For those of you who relish being reinstated, a hypothetical question: if Admiral Mikhailovich comes on board the Normandy and orders your Shep to clear out the aliens (or some other nonsensical thing of your choice), would you do it? Or would you politely show him the airlock?

As long as the Alliance doesn't mess with my Shepard's team and gives her useful things to do, no problem. But if they hamper the war effort with political BS she's taking off with her squad.

#28
Nashiktal

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Shinobu wrote...

For those of you who relish being reinstated, a hypothetical question: if Admiral Mikhailovich comes on board the Normandy and orders your Shep to clear out the aliens (or some other nonsensical thing of your choice), would you do it? Or would you politely show him the airlock?

As long as the Alliance doesn't mess with my Shepard's team and gives her useful things to do, no problem. But if they hamper the war effort with political BS she's taking off with her squad.


I would do what I did to the good admiral last time, prove him wrong.

I don't need to do anything (imo, not to insult you here) immature like taking off at the slightest disagreement. Shep is trying to bring everyone together, not burn bridges.

Which another thing about pro aliens, they are going to see the dark sides of the non human species in this game, and it will be DELICOUS.

#29
seirhart

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Shinobu wrote...

For those of you who relish being reinstated, a hypothetical question: if Admiral Mikhailovich comes on board the Normandy and orders your Shep to clear out the aliens (or some other nonsensical thing of your choice), would you do it? Or would you politely show him the airlock?

As long as the Alliance doesn't mess with my Shepard's team and gives her useful things to do, no problem. But if they hamper the war effort with political BS she's taking off with her squad.



I agree with both of these, I don't care if Hackett comes along and says get rid of my alien squad or something else I don't like. Because if he does or any other official does I will be shove them in the airlock out in the middle of space and then I'll take the normandy and my crew and the alliance can fend for itself while I go save the rest of the galaxy.

#30
mango smoothie

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Nashiktal wrote...


Which another thing about pro aliens, they are going to see the dark sides of the non human species in this game, and it will be DELICOUS.


Ya I'm looking forward to this too.

#31
Nashiktal

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mango smoothie wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...


Which another thing about pro aliens, they are going to see the dark sides of the non human species in this game, and it will be DELICOUS.


Ya I'm looking forward to this too.



Indeed, I am looking forward to finally seeing the... What is the word? Deep aspect of galactic politics and diplomacy. And I am REALLY hoping we can't just solve things with persuasion like in the last two games.

#32
Shinobu

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Nashiktal wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

For those of you who relish being reinstated, a hypothetical question: if Admiral Mikhailovich comes on board the Normandy and orders your Shep to clear out the aliens (or some other nonsensical thing of your choice), would you do it? Or would you politely show him the airlock?

As long as the Alliance doesn't mess with my Shepard's team and gives her useful things to do, no problem. But if they hamper the war effort with political BS she's taking off with her squad.


I would do what I did to the good admiral last time, prove him wrong.


Of course. Who wouldn't choose the diplomatic path if it works? But this may not be an option. I haven't read the spoilers, but it's probable Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance, in which case not all orders will be in the best interests of the galaxy. I don't care if it is the Alliance or the Council, if someone gives my Shepard a bad order and can't be talked out of it or "worked around," she's gone.

#33
Nashiktal

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Shinobu wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

For those of you who relish being reinstated, a hypothetical question: if Admiral Mikhailovich comes on board the Normandy and orders your Shep to clear out the aliens (or some other nonsensical thing of your choice), would you do it? Or would you politely show him the airlock?

As long as the Alliance doesn't mess with my Shepard's team and gives her useful things to do, no problem. But if they hamper the war effort with political BS she's taking off with her squad.


I would do what I did to the good admiral last time, prove him wrong.


Of course. Who wouldn't choose the diplomatic path if it works? But this may not be an option. I haven't read the spoilers, but it's probable Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance, in which case not all orders will be in the best interests of the galaxy. I don't care if it is the Alliance or the Council, if someone gives my Shepard a bad order and can't be talked out of it or "worked around," she's gone.


Well to be fair you won't have to worry too much. The alliance isn't exactly in any position to refuse you. Hell I havn't read the whole script, but if memory serves I think hackette might be the highest ranking officer the alliance has left.

#34
Shinobu

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Nashiktal wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Shinobu wrote...

For those of you who relish being reinstated, a hypothetical question: if Admiral Mikhailovich comes on board the Normandy and orders your Shep to clear out the aliens (or some other nonsensical thing of your choice), would you do it? Or would you politely show him the airlock?

As long as the Alliance doesn't mess with my Shepard's team and gives her useful things to do, no problem. But if they hamper the war effort with political BS she's taking off with her squad.


I would do what I did to the good admiral last time, prove him wrong.


Of course. Who wouldn't choose the diplomatic path if it works? But this may not be an option. I haven't read the spoilers, but it's probable Cerberus has infiltrated the Alliance, in which case not all orders will be in the best interests of the galaxy. I don't care if it is the Alliance or the Council, if someone gives my Shepard a bad order and can't be talked out of it or "worked around," she's gone.


Well to be fair you won't have to worry too much. The alliance isn't exactly in any position to refuse you. Hell I havn't read the whole script, but if memory serves I think hackette might be the highest ranking officer the alliance has left.


I'm pretty much counting on the chaos to give Shepard free rein. How much fun would it be if we spent the whole game acting as the VS's XO shuttling diplomats to the Citadel? No, the Alliance will probably give "good orders" so we Paragades can stay on the job without feeling like useless idiots.

Hackett: Shepard, I order you to save the galaxy however you see fit!
Shepard: Yessir! *salutes*

#35
G3rman

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Clearly you don't understand Shepard's personality nor the responsibility he has as a soldier and a Human to the Alliance.

#36
Ryzaki

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Nashiktal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Totally because not wanting Shep to work with the alliance = Shep is a god. >_>

As far as my Shep's concerned the alliance can screw themselves. He'll use them up until they have no more resources to give before tossing them aside.

He might as well do it first before they do it to him.


So you want to screw humanity? Like it or not, the alliance is a nation, not an organization, or a military branch or something. Sure there are a few independant colonies, but screwing the alliance, taking its resources, is killing humanity.

Like it or not, shep's goal is to save humanity, if not necesarilly earth.


The alliance =/= humanity anymore than Cerberus does. No matter what either group likes to think.

And no seeing as taking the alliance's resources for the purpose of helping them stop the genocidal robots gathering their citizens and turning them into reaper slushie at best and mindless slaves at worse (along with everyone else) and stopping the Reapers does not = killing humanity. It boggles me how you see it as such. Seeing as it's their planet to be defended hell yes the Alliance needs to give up all their resources. They're saving themselves as well.

Plus...Batarians aren't even an issue anymore they have as much crap (if not more) than Earth has.

I have no qualms with Shep helping humanity (neither in ME3 nor in ME2 when working with Cerberus). Hell some of my Sheps help everyone he comes across.  I just don't want my Shep to be all "yay alliance!" just like I'm sure some didn't want their Sheps to be all "Yay Cerberus!". The alliance screwed him over once he sees little point in running towards them with open arms. As soon as they've lost their usefulness towards the Reapers he's leaving them behind. So they better keep up. They're not the only ones who can abandon things once they've lost their value.

If it ever comes down to saving Earth or destroying the Reapers...my Shep's destroying the Reapers. With no hesitation. Sure he's not going to destroy humanity maliciously or purposely but he's not going to waste resources that could be used against the Reapers trying to help them out either.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 février 2012 - 03:42 .


#37
Shinobu

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Ryzaki wrote...

The alliance =/= humanity anymore than Cerberus does. No matter what either group likes to think.

And no seeing as taking the alliance's resources for the purpose of helping them stop the genocidal robots gathering their citizens and turning them into reaper slushie at best and mindless slaves at worse (along with everyone else) and stopping the Reapers does not = killing humanity. It boggles me how you see it as such. Seeing as it's their planet to be defended hell yes the Alliance needs to give up all their resources. They're saving themselves as well.

Plus...Batarians aren't even an issue anymore they have as much crap (if not more) than Earth has.

I have no qualms with Shep helping humanity (neither in ME3 nor in ME2 when working with Cerberus). Hell some of my Sheps help everyone he comes across.  I just don't want my Shep to be all "yay alliance!" just like I'm sure some didn't want their Sheps to be all "Yay Cerberus!". The alliance screwed him over once he sees little point in running towards them with open arms. As soon as they've lost their usefulness towards the Reapers he's leaving them behind. So they better keep up. They're not the only ones who can abandon things once they've lost their value.

If it ever comes down to saving Earth or destroying the Reapers...my Shep's destroying the Reapers. With no hesitation. Sure he's not going to destroy humanity maliciously or purposely but he's not going to waste resources that could be used against the Reapers trying to help them out either.


My Shepard is pretty much like this but with a little more positive attitude toward the Alliance. Instead of "the Alliance screwed me," she has more of a "the Alliance is ineffectual/too bogged down in Council politics" attitude. (Anderson pretty much admits it during ME2.) This is Team Milky Way's last stand. Any allies are welcome, any obstructionists, whether they're from Cerberus, the Alliance, or the Council races,  must be circumvented or eliminated. Letting Earth (or Palaven or Thessia or Rannoch or Sur'Kesh) burn if it will mean stopping the Reapers is on the table. "Get on board or get out of the way" is the order of the day. She's paragade, so of course she'll try to save everyone, but if hard choices have to be made, they will be.

#38
BlueMagitek

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Shinobu wrote...

For those of you who relish being reinstated, a hypothetical question: if Admiral Mikhailovich comes on board the Normandy and orders your Shep to clear out the aliens (or some other nonsensical thing of your choice), would you do it? Or would you politely show him the airlock?

As long as the Alliance doesn't mess with my Shepard's team and gives her useful things to do, no problem. But if they hamper the war effort with political BS she's taking off with her squad.


Considering that the aliens in your squad that we know of are:

Liara (best used as her role as SB)
Tali (probably better off with her people unless she's been exiled)
Garrus (better off leading his own squad)
Spoilery (spoilers, but could actually spoiler spoiler)

I'm fine with banishing the aliens from the Normandy.  Heck, Wrex and Garrus shouldn't have been on the original Normandy, as much as I love Wrex.  Tali was forced to tag along by Udina/Anderson, so... yeah.  We could have dropped Liara off right after we saved her and she gave Shepard her prothean knowledge (post Virmire) and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Considering we're on an Alliance (or stolen Cerberus, if you're one of the Brotherhood :lol:) ship, I don't think it'd be quite fair to the Alliance to just go off in a huff whenever our wittle Shepard's emotions got all ouchie wochied. :whistle:

#39
seirhart

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Ryzaki wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Totally because not wanting Shep to work with the alliance = Shep is a god. >_>

As far as my Shep's concerned the alliance can screw themselves. He'll use them up until they have no more resources to give before tossing them aside.

He might as well do it first before they do it to him.


So you want to screw humanity? Like it or not, the alliance is a nation, not an organization, or a military branch or something. Sure there are a few independant colonies, but screwing the alliance, taking its resources, is killing humanity.

Like it or not, shep's goal is to save humanity, if not necesarilly earth.


The alliance =/= humanity anymore than Cerberus does. No matter what either group likes to think.

And no seeing as taking the alliance's resources for the purpose of helping them stop the genocidal robots gathering their citizens and turning them into reaper slushie at best and mindless slaves at worse (along with everyone else) and stopping the Reapers does not = killing humanity. It boggles me how you see it as such. Seeing as it's their planet to be defended hell yes the Alliance needs to give up all their resources. They're saving themselves as well.

Plus...Batarians aren't even an issue anymore they have as much crap (if not more) than Earth has.

I have no qualms with Shep helping humanity (neither in ME3 nor in ME2 when working with Cerberus). Hell some of my Sheps help everyone he comes across.  I just don't want my Shep to be all "yay alliance!" just like I'm sure some didn't want their Sheps to be all "Yay Cerberus!". The alliance screwed him over once he sees little point in running towards them with open arms. As soon as they've lost their usefulness towards the Reapers he's leaving them behind. So they better keep up. They're not the only ones who can abandon things once they've lost their value.

If it ever comes down to saving Earth or destroying the Reapers...my Shep's destroying the Reapers. With no hesitation. Sure he's not going to destroy humanity maliciously or purposely but he's not going to waste resources that could be used against the Reapers trying to help them out either.



This right here is my thinking, also losing the alliance isn't losing humanity. There are other human colonies out there that have nothing to do with the alliance. If for what ever reason earth can't be saved my shepard won't waste resources on earth he'll just move on to the rest of the galaxy. Also I agree with what shinoh said that get in line do as your told and if you can't do that then you're out of luck

#40
Han Shot First

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Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

No.


This.

Shepard is both a Spectre and a fairly high ranking Alliance military officer. People often forget that Shepard isn't a blank slate character. He or she does have a back story established by Bioware that the player can't change even if they wanted to. One of those things is that Shepard was a career military officer. He's a lifer, not someone that joined the military on a lark  and found out it wasn't for them during their first enlistment. A Shepard with an anti-military outlook clashes with his background, quite frankly. Hippie Shepard = Not canon.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 03 février 2012 - 05:30 .


#41
husky husk

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Random Jerkface wrote...

SolidBeast wrote...

husky husk wrote...

Why are there

Indeed.

husky husk wrote...
two of these?

Oh thank jebus I thought I was going crazy. So this twin wins the mothers teet then?

#42
Drone223

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Han Shot First wrote...

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

No.


This.

Shepard is both a Spectre and a fairly high ranking Alliance military officer. People often forget that Shepard isn't a blank slate character. He or she does have a back story established by Bioware that the player can't change even if they wanted to. One of those things is that Shepard was a career military officer. He's a lifer, not someone that joined the military on a lark  and found out it wasn't for them during their first enlistment. A Shepard with an anti-military outlook clashes with his background, quite frankly. Hippie Shepard = Not canon.


^Agreed doesn't matter if people love or hate the Alliance Shepard will be with the Alliance in ME3

Modifié par Drone223, 03 février 2012 - 05:51 .


#43
Arbitorius

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Shinobu wrote...

For those of you who relish being reinstated, a hypothetical question: if Admiral Mikhailovich comes on board the Normandy and orders your Shep to clear out the aliens (or some other nonsensical thing of your choice), would you do it? Or would you politely show him the airlock?

As long as the Alliance doesn't mess with my Shepard's team and gives her useful things to do, no problem. But if they hamper the war effort with political BS she's taking off with her squad.


Being former military I actually kind of enjoyed the chain of command element. It felt like it would be easy for Shepard to get out of control, since I play at max renegade every chance I get (i'm nice to those who deserve it, but i'm downright draconian towards anyone who points a weapon at me...like Maelon, on Tuchanka! you find me stopping Mordin from offing him!)

In the 1st ME, Shepard was an Alliance Marine, and, myself being a former Marine, can understand why there was a chain of command in the game. Shepard isn't a mercenary, he's got the best interest of the galaxy in mind (no matter how you play him, he's always going to be a good guy).

So originally you're a Commander (equivelent of a Major in the army and Corps) of the Alliance military. Then he becomes a spectre. So he goes from one chain of command to the other. He then answers to the Council (I save the council every time. It would make humanity look bad if the first human spectre ordered the council be sacrificed, and the losses weren't that bad. Joker and Admiral Hackett did an amazing job annihilating the Geth fleet. Besides, they would have had to fight through them to get to Sovreign anyway!

To bring up your point about the Admiral. It was one of the few times I used the Paragon speech options (the blue ones). He asked about the CIC and ****, so I told him oh it's a joint construction between humans and Turians bla bla bla. And remember you're a spectre? You have the ultimate power who goes on your ship. The Alliance gave the Normandy to you. So every time an Alliance officer ever told me "remember, you're still a Marine" I was like "uuuuh...no. I work for the Council in the department of Special Tactics and Recon. I am no longer an Alliance Marine". it always pissed me off.

It's contradictory, see?

So the Admiral would have no power over who serves on your ship (and so my boy Garrus would stay. He was with me through Saren, Sovreign, and the human reaper. I always take him).

In ME2, there is still a chain of command. You might be able to chose speech options saying you're not working for Cerberus, and yes, you do make your own decisions as to where to go, who to recruit, etc. But T.I.M is really the one who is giving you all your intel. And don't forget about Tali and Mordin finding spy bugs onboard. Cerberus is really in control at the end of the day.

So finally. In ME3. Just because Shepard worked for Cerberus for a year (I believe that is the time span of the 2nd game), doesn't mean he is now some super god-like warrior who goes around saving the galaxy. No, he needs resources, he needs other Marines and naval crewmen (and women!) to operate his ship. The Normandy is still an Alliance warship (at least in ME1 and 3 it is) so the crew are naturally, Alliance Marines and sailors (yes the term Sailor still applies...even in space).

So really, thing is Shepard needs a sponsor. You could go off with your squad, but hypothetically it wouldn't really work seeing as that's going Unauthorized Absence and is a crime punishible under military law.

And as you mentioned, about reinstatment into the Spectres. Maybe if you're still a Spectre in the 3rd game, things will work out completely differently.

Shepard had the Alliance first. Then the Councel. Then Cerberus. He's never been able to do it alone. And never will. he's just one man

#44
Labrev

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To clarify, I'm not saying Shepard ought to be 100% Alliance-loyal or anything and really, he'll probably be very much independent and in charge of the show in ME3 despite whatever his "official" ties are.


All I'm saying is that of all reasons for one not to want to work for the Alliance, the mentality of "I'm THEE Shepard, I shouldn't have to answer to anyone!" is one that's completely out-of-touch because up to this point, he has NOT done it all by himself (as many would like to think). And with an even tougher enemy on the way in ME3, there's no reason to think he will now either.

If you really think that Shepard needs no ties to any organized military group or high-ranking political figures/military leaders to defeat the Reapers, you're pretty much putting Shepard on demi-god status.

#45
Han Shot First

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Great post Arbitorious, and Semper Fidelis.

Well said, on all counts.

#46
Drone223

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Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

To clarify, I'm not saying Shepard ought to be 100% Alliance-loyal or anything and really, he'll probably be very much independent and in charge of the show in ME3 despite whatever his "official" ties are.


All I'm saying is that of all reasons for one not to want to work for the Alliance, the mentality of "I'm THEE Shepard, I shouldn't have to answer to anyone!" is one that's completely out-of-touch because up to this point, he has NOT done it all by himself (as many would like to think). And with an even tougher enemy on the way in ME3, there's no reason to think he will now either.

If you really think that Shepard needs no ties to any organized military group or high-ranking political figures/military leaders to defeat the Reapers, you're pretty much putting Shepard on demi-god status.


People have huge ego's about Shepard,

Modifié par Drone223, 03 février 2012 - 06:26 .


#47
Han Shot First

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Drone223 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

To clarify, I'm not saying Shepard ought to be 100% Alliance-loyal or anything and really, he'll probably be very much independent and in charge of the show in ME3 despite whatever his "official" ties are.


All I'm saying is that of all reasons for one not to want to work for the Alliance, the mentality of "I'm THEE Shepard, I shouldn't have to answer to anyone!" is one that's completely out-of-touch because up to this point, he has NOT done it all by himself (as many would like to think). And with an even tougher enemy on the way in ME3, there's no reason to think he will now either.

If you really think that Shepard needs no ties to any organized military group or high-ranking political figures/military leaders to defeat the Reapers, you're pretty much putting Shepard on demi-god status.


People as usual have huge ego's about Shepard


People forget that Shepard isn't dragonborn, or a Jedi, or some other mystical or magical human being with powers beyond mere mortals. He may be an exceptional human being in the same sense that Albert Einstein, Jesse Owens, or Julius Caesar were exceptional human beings, but he is human nonetheless, with all of our inherent flaws and weaknesses. He absolutely cannot defeat the Reapers alone, and occasionally he has to follow orders from superiors.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 03 février 2012 - 06:30 .


#48
Drone223

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Han Shot First wrote...

Drone223 wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

To clarify, I'm not saying Shepard ought to be 100% Alliance-loyal or anything and really, he'll probably be very much independent and in charge of the show in ME3 despite whatever his "official" ties are.


All I'm saying is that of all reasons for one not to want to work for the Alliance, the mentality of "I'm THEE Shepard, I shouldn't have to answer to anyone!" is one that's completely out-of-touch because up to this point, he has NOT done it all by himself (as many would like to think). And with an even tougher enemy on the way in ME3, there's no reason to think he will now either.

If you really think that Shepard needs no ties to any organized military group or high-ranking political figures/military leaders to defeat the Reapers, you're pretty much putting Shepard on demi-god status.


People as usual have huge ego's about Shepard


People forget that Shepard isn't dragonborn, or a Jedi, or some other mystical or magical human being with powers beyond mere mortals. He may be an exceptional human being in the same sense that Albert Einstein, Jesse Owens, or Julius Caesar were exceptional human beings, but he is human nonetheless, with all of our inherent flaws and weaknesses.


QFT

And I bet we'll be seeing those weaknesses in ME3

#49
kuoleman

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You don't just quit the human race.

#50
sevach

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I hate Alliance bs, all that righteous talk and just as dirty as Cerberus (so far at least).

But i'm not sacrificing your average human just because i hate the Alliance, in my first playthrough, i'm saving Earth even if i have to kill everyone else...

Unspeakable things might happen to Udina or some other high ups however...
Fight the power!!!