27 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

Controlling the minds and actions of others seems to be a hallmark power of Bloodmages.  But what about just reading the minds of others? 

If blood magic can take control of another, might not any mage be able to sense another's thoughts using just with their own "will" or whatever?

I mean, if it's true that bloodmagic is as much (if not more) a source of power for spells as it is a school of magic, then it would seem to me that reading someone's mind would be a weaker or preliminary step towards controlling that person.  And one that might not actually require drawing anyone's blood to do.

Does anyone remember any codex entries or dialogue that talk about this?  I recall some things about mind control but not much about mind reading.

Modifié par General User, 03 février 2012 - 03:47 .

[esper]

I don't think so. Idunna had to use mind/body control to force information out of Hawke so I think it is beyond human possible.

[GSSAGE7]

Varric makes a joke with Bethany about how he thought it took Blood Magic to read minds, but considering Varric is a known liar, it's hard to say if he knows. But generally, anything short of Mind Disruption (see: Mind Blast) would probably fall under Blood Magic.

[General User]

esper wrote...

I don't think so. Idunna had to use mind/body control to force information out of Hawke so I think it is beyond human possible.

Good point.

[Rifneno]

It's not a known magical ability. That doesn't mean it isn't possible though. Teleportation is thought to be impossible, but the eluvians clearly show that it isn't.

Magic is like technology. The more that's known about it, the more that can be done with it. The only place in Thedas that doesn't view magic as a curse is Tevinter, which we haven't seen and isn't likely to share its advancements. So we've likely only seen a the tip of the iceberg on what magic is capable of. But the great majority of what it's theoretically capable of will never be seen. Of course that doesn't mean it IS possible. Some things truly are impossible. One thing that is impossible is, ironically enough, being able to predict what is and isn't possible.

[Fast Jimmy]

Teleportation is impossible.

Until you play DA2, that is.

[Lazy Jer]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Teleportation is impossible.

Until you play DA2, that is.

If you're referring to Flemeth getting Hawke & Co. to Kirkwall we don't know it was teleportation.  I personally like to imagine they all piled into Flemeth's station wagon and she drove them to the nearest Ferelden city with a port.  But of course I could be wrong.

[General User]

Flemeth changed into a dragon, they rode on her back.

Modifié par General User, 04 février 2012 - 12:27 .

[Rifneno]

He's referring to the teleportation spells that enemy mages use. The writers have since explained it to us, saying that they're casting a spell that makes them invisible and then they run super fast to the place we see them appear.

[dragonflight288]

Invisibility would be theoretically possible. We see things through optics and natural light which gives us colors and shapes. But we cannot see ultraviolet light but it's there. Use a spell to disrupt that, and you technically are invisible because the naked eye cannot see you.

[Get Magna Carter]

to the original question...Blood magic is defined by the use of blood to power it.
So if a mage could read minds without using blood then it would not be blood magic

[thats1evildude]

 From the Codex on Blood Magic:

Although lyrium will allow a mage to send his conscious mind into the Fade, blood would allow him to find the sleeping minds of others, view their dreams, and even influence or dominate their thoughts.

It's not mind-reading in the traditional sense, but it's close.

[Abispa]

I often wonder if the Chantry uses "blood magic" the same way the Catholic Church used to use "devil worship." There are certain magic traditions that the Chantry forbids in addition to "real" blood magic, such as shape-shifting. Shape-shifting doesn't appear to be "real" blood magic, but I wonder if a Chantry priest would call it such because "blood magic" may be interchangeable with "forbidden magic" in her mind. That would be the same as a Catholic priest calling a Muslim or Native American shaman a "devil worshiper" since he believes they are same for denying the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Flemeth also appears to practice divination as well as shape-shifting. I wonder how the Chantry regards THAT school of magic.

[Rifneno]

Abispa wrote...

I often wonder if the Chantry uses "blood magic" the same way the Catholic Church used to use "devil worship." There are certain magic traditions that the Chantry forbids in addition to "real" blood magic, such as shape-shifting. Shape-shifting doesn't appear to be "real" blood magic, but I wonder if a Chantry priest would call it such because "blood magic" may be interchangeable with "forbidden magic" in her mind. That would be the same as a Catholic priest calling a Muslim or Native American shaman a "devil worshiper" since he believes they are same for denying the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Flemeth also appears to practice divination as well as shape-shifting. I wonder how the Chantry regards THAT school of magic.

...  If?

[thats1evildude]

Abispa wrote...

I often wonder if the Chantry uses "blood magic" the same way the Catholic Church used to use "devil worship." There are certain magic traditions that the Chantry forbids in addition to "real" blood magic, such as shape-shifting.

I don't believe they forbid shape-shifting. It's simply an art not known to the Circle of Magi. (Probably because it's as weak as watered-down ale.)

Blood magic is its own school with its own properties. It isn't a catch-all term for "evil magic".

Modifié par thats1evildude, 05 février 2012 - 12:49 .

[Gervaise]

Maleficar was a term originally applied to blood mages that the Chantry often use interchangeably with that of apostate, so I would imagine that any form of magic practiced outside of Chantry jurisdiction would be regarded as "blood" magic.

Even blood magic seems to be divided into two types: one is just the alternaive means of powering spells; the second is spells which can only be performed by blood magic.

There is also the link that was originally made between blood magic and doing deals with demons. In origins it originally you learnt blood magic by doing a deal with a demon which implied that it was only possible to learn it via this source. Then subsequently it seemed that you could do the same simply by finding a book that dealt with the subject.

The type of blood magic that involves controlling the mind may be the type that has to be taught by demons. Demons can read minds, or at least the desires of mortals, otherwise how could they offer what people want so precisely in order to lure them into doing a deal (think Fenris, Merrill, Averline, Isabella, etc in the Fade). The Dreamers seem to be able to detect thoughts or at least emotions at a great distance (Feynriel and the girl about to be raped), so in theory mind reading may be possible but it would either be very high level magic or require particular magical gifts to do so. May be it would require such a large expense mana that it would be denied to most mages or would require a large blood sacrifice to achieve.

[Abispa]

thats1evildude wrote...

Abispa wrote...

I often wonder if the Chantry uses "blood magic" the same way the Catholic Church used to use "devil worship." There are certain magic traditions that the Chantry forbids in addition to "real" blood magic, such as shape-shifting.

I don't believe they forbid shape-shifting. It's simply an art not known to the Circle of Magi. (Probably because it's as weak as watered-down ale.)

Blood magic is its own school with its own properties. It isn't a catch-all term for "evil magic".

Not sure how being a shape-shifter of ANY sort could be weak, since the potential for espionage, infultration and escape would make that school of magic INCREDIBLY powerful and dangerous, even if one never turns into a dragon. I'm pretty sure the shape-shifting is not practiced in the Circle is precisely because the Chantry fears the many possible abuses, even if a mouse can't hurl fireballs.

[Abispa]

Another thing about "blood magic" is that it doesn't take a mage to practice it. Reavers do so as well. Plus, both DA games have established that demons are drawn to and excited by blood even if it isn't spilled as part of a ritual, and the veil becomes incredibly weak in areas of great battles or extreme violence (Alienage orphanage in DA:O). The spilling of blood in itself is dangerous on Thedas, more so if mages are involved.

[caradoc2000]

Can Mages Read Minds

Yes, but only if they have the Acrobat MindReader™ plugin installed.

[Chun Hei]

Women are born telepathic. No blood magic necessary.

[Lazy Jer]

Chun Hei wrote...

Women are born telepathic. No blood magic necessary.

If that's true then how come so many of them say they'll never understand guys?

[Chun Hei]

Lazy Jer wrote...

Chun Hei wrote...

Women are born telepathic. No blood magic necessary.

If that's true then how come so many of them say they'll never understand guys?

We know WHAT they are thinking we just do not understand WHY they do or how they manage to survive.

[Lazy Jer]

Chun Hei wrote...

We know WHAT they are thinking we just do not understand WHY they do or how they manage to survive.

I can answer the last question.  Instant ramen.

[WhiteKnyght]

Lazy Jer wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Teleportation is impossible.

Until you play DA2, that is.

If you're referring to Flemeth getting Hawke & Co. to Kirkwall we don't know it was teleportation.  I personally like to imagine they all piled into Flemeth's station wagon and she drove them to the nearest Ferelden city with a port.  But of course I could be wrong.

You need to replay DAII's prologue.

Flemeth protected them on their way to Gwaren where they took a ship to Kirkwall.

Varric: "The witch kept her word and got them to Gwaren, where they took ship. They spent two weeks in that dark hold. Packed in with the fearful and the desperate."

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 06 février 2012 - 02:11 .

[Lazy Jer]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

You need to replay DAII's prologue.

Flemeth protected them on their way to Gwaren where they took a ship to Kirkwall.

Varric: "The witch kept her word and got them to Gwaren, where they took ship. They spent two weeks in that dark hold. Packed in with the fearful and the desperate."

So you're saying there was no station wagon?  Not even a mini-van?  Disappointing...and I had spent so much time imagining what radio stations Flemmeth listen to on particularly long road trips.  Oh well.